Venezuela, The Starving Socialist Dystopia (Part 1)

Not only was it stupid to use his primetime show for a topic like this, specially in a situation like this, but he was totally ignorant about the topic too...

Business as usual.
 
I think Gaza during an Israeli incursion has a more functional economy than Venezuela right now.
 
they can send their women to germany in the meanwhile
 
Ever since Chavez is dead this country went down the drain hard.
Not here to defend or even talk about socialism, cuz I think some of you have the wrong impression of the issues in Venezuela.

The main problem is corruption. I have family in Venezuela and I know for a fact it was a very strong and wealthy country not too long ago. Chavez took control and essentially made himself a totalitarian dictator and shit started going out of control.
 
*Facepalm*

Let me guess. You think economies have been crashed because people weren't taxed enough, and there weren't regulations.



Which is ironic, because before Hugo Chavez, Venezuela did have a pretty good economy. Then higher taxes were set in upon the oil companies and the afluent, causing oil companies to go other areas with oil and lower taxes. Not all oil companies left, some stayed, but it's not been enough for the remaining tax revenue to cover the increased government spending for 'the masses.'

And now in recent months, the government has been in dire straights, not even being able to supply it's people with toilet paper and beer, and the President is declaring a state of emergency.

Bernie Sanders supporters love the promises of socialism, but they ignore the fact the same promises have been made over and over again to country after country over the last two centuries, and those promises are never granted. You would think that the means those promises were supposed to gain the desired results...

1. Increased taxation and regulation of 'the rich' and their corporations.
2. Increase the size of government, and control over citizens lives.
3. Control the means of production, distribution, and cost of products.

...were the entire point to begin with. Absolute power.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Chavez seized an opportunity to get support from the super poor, to give himself more power, then he started hoarding all of the country's wealth for himself.
 
Why can't anyone kill that asshole Maduro?

Jesus H. Christ...
 
Not here to defend or even talk about socialism, cuz I think some of you have the wrong impression of the issues in Venezuela.

The main problem is corruption. I have family in Venezuela and I know for a fact it was a very strong and wealthy country not too long ago. Chavez took control and essentially made himself a totalitarian dictator and shit started going out of control.
Uh, yeah, do you know what you're describing? You're describing when they abandoned the 1999 Constitution and embraced Hugo Chavez's sweeping, unilateral executive reforms to the their Constitution from 2007-2009 that converted them to a Socialist state:
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2890

That was where the "socialism" came in. Their oil industry had already been nationalized in 1976, but he again "nationalized" (i.e. stole) most of the private sector infrastructure in the Orinoco Petroleum Belt from 1999-2007. He was especially bold by the end:
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/2245
This included offshore rigs that were almost wholly built by American or British oil corporations like Exxon, ConocoPhiips, BP and Chevron because neither the Venezuelan state nor its oil businesses had the technological capability to build the deep-water rigs, but also because they simply didn't have the capital, and at the time had signed contracts and agreements that were mutually beneficial to their state as well as the investing oil companies. He just reneged on those contracts and seized all of these platforms, the oil mining rights, etc.

Also, you know, because fuck Americans and their "devil" leaders with their surreptitious programs to slowly "poison" Latin American leaders' cigarettes so that their lifelong habits kill them with lung cancer. No, I'm not shitting you. He seriously alleged that.

These American companies sucked up the loss-- didn't send ultimatums for reprisal to the USA government-- but vowed to never return and do business with the Venezuela again. That's when Americans probably noticed the rash of "Valero" gas stations pop up in the USA. That's the Venezuelan state oil company. This is the most oil-rich country in the western hemisphere per capita, and thanks to socialism, they can't even feed their fucking people. What more do you need, man? Hugo tapped this central oil fund as his personal piggybank for all of his stupid socialist ideas for spending programs. Presto! These headlines are the result.


Want a wider lens? You'll get no better single metric for a nation's economic efficiency than the following:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
We'll use the CIA since it offers the most complete data set, and because there's almost no variance. Remember that this was for 2015 when oil prices were still clinging to better prices for the first half of the year, too. Keep in mind the list goes #199 countries deep.


MARXIST--LENINIST STATES
#88 China
#109 Cuba
#131 Vietnam
#135 Laos

CONSTITUTIONAL SOCIALIST STATES & REGIMES
#46 Portugal
#76 Venezuela
#107 Sri Lanka
#125 Guyana
#130 India
#149 Bangladesh
#151 Sao Tome & Principe
#160 Tanzania
#169 Nepal
#180 North Korea
#187 Guinea-Bissau

I won't rank them, but non-Soviet countries that were formerly Marxist-Leninist that are trying to drag themselves out of it include Afghanistan, Angola, Cambodia, the Congo, Ethiopia, Mozambique, Somalia, and Yemen. Of the former Soviet countries those in Europe are recovering the most quickly by far by virtue of juxtaposition to the EU (a massive union possessing economic and political stability-- at least until the BREXIT). Hmmm...I notice you can say the exact same thing of the best "socialist" performer in that group-- Portugal! Of course, Portugal is itself a mediocre performer within that zone, and actually had to be "bailed out" with debt relief by those surrounding capitalist countries! It joined Greece and Ireland in that shameful category.

South Korea is at #32 while North Korea is at #180. That was a single, united country half a century ago.

Looking at the Middle East: Iraq, Burma, Egypy, Libya, Sudan, and Syria are other former "soft" socialist countries. As you might notice...virtually every state that has ever embraced that philosophy has failed.


We are no longer in a theoretical blind. We have a century of testing, now, and the results are in. Socialism fucking sucks. Socialized programs within a capitalist framework do alright, so long as they are limited, but Socialism is a FUCKING DISASTER.
 
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Uh, yeah, do you know what you're describing? You're describing when they abandoned the 1999 Constitution and embraced Hugo Chavez's sweeping, unilateral executive reforms to the their Constitution from 2007-2009 that converted them to a Socialist state:
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2890

That was where the "socialism" came in. Their oil industry had already been nationalized in 1976, but he again "nationalized" (i.e. stole) most of the private sector infrastructure in the Orinoco Petroleum Belt from 1999-2007. He was especially bold by the end:
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/2245
This included offshore rigs that were almost wholly built by American or British oil corporations like Exxon, ConocoPhiips, BP and Chevron because neither the Venezuelan state nor its oil businesses had the technological capability to build the deep-water rigs, but also because they simply didn't have the capital, and at the time had signed contracts and agreements that were mutually beneficial to their state as well as the investing oil companies. He just reneged on those contracts and seized all of these platforms, the oil mining rights, etc.

Also, you know, because fuck Americans and their "devil" leaders with their surreptitious programs to slowly "poison" Latin American leaders' cigarettes so that their lifelong habits kill them with lung cancer. No, I'm not shitting you. He seriously alleged that.

These American companies sucked up the loss-- didn't send ultimatums for reprisal to the USA government-- but vowed to never return and do business with the Venezuela again. That's when Americans probably noticed the rash of "Valero" gas stations pop up in the USA. That's the Venezuelan state oil company. This is the most oil-rich country in the western hemisphere per capita, and thanks to socialism, they can't even feed their fucking people. What more do you need, man? Hugo tapped this central oil fund as his personal piggybank for all of his stupid socialist ideas for spending programs. Presto! These headlines are the result.


Want a wider lens? You'll get no better single metric for a nation's economic efficiency than the following:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
We'll use the CIA since it offers the most complete data set, and because there's almost no variance. Remember that this was for 2015 when oil prices were still clinging to better prices for the first half of the year, too. Keep in mind the list goes #199 countries deep.


MARXIST--LENINIST STATES
#88 China
#109 Cuba
#131 Vietnam
#135 Laos

CONSTITUTIONAL SOCIALIST STATES & REGIMES
#46 Portugal
#76 Venezuela
#107 Sri Lanka
#125 Guyana
#130 India
#149 Bangladesh
#151 Sao Tome & Principe
#160 Tanzania
#169 Nepal
#180 North Korea
#187 Guinea-Bissau

I won't rank them, but non-Soviet countries that were formerly Marxist-Leninist that are trying to drag themselves out of it include Afghanistan, Angola, Cambodia, the Congo, Ethiopia, Mozambique, Somalia, and Yemen. Of the former Soviet countries those in Europe are recovering the most quickly by far by virtue of juxtaposition to the EU (a massive union possessing economic and political stability-- at least until the BREXIT). Hmmm...I notice you can say the exact same thing of the best "socialist" performer in that group-- Portugal! Of course, Portugal is itself a mediocre performer within that zone, and actually had to be "bailed out" with debt relief by those surrounding capitalist countries! It joined Greece and Ireland in that shameful category.

South Korea is at #32 while North Korea is at #180. That was a single, united country half a century ago.

Looking at the Middle East: Iraq, Burma, Egypy, Libya, Sudan, and Syria are other former "soft" socialist countries. As you might notice...virtually every state that has ever embraced that philosophy has failed.


We are no longer in a theoretical blind. We have a century of testing, now, and the results are in. Socialism fucking sucks. Socialized programs within a capitalist framework do alright, so long as they are limited, but Socialism is a FUCKING DISASTER.

Whoa dude slow down. You went off on like 1000 tangents there.

Did I give the impression that I support socialism? If that's what you got from my post then I apologize for not being clearer. I am fully aware socialism sucks. However I saw the first few posts of this thread and I got the impression that people wanted to blame the concept of socialism itself for the current situation. What I was trying to say is that Chavez used it as a tool to exploit his own people for his own personal gain.

I even said in another post that absolute power corrupts absolutely. The concept of socialism itself isn't evil, it's just a very flawed concept that can be easily exploited by people with evil intentions. You could actually say the same thing about capitalism. In Venezuela's case they had a manipulative president who exploited his people and his country's natural resources for his own gain.

Interestingly enough, Venezuela rose to prosperity in the 20th Century under a president that employed socialist policies long before Hugo Chavez.

I just wanted to help people understand that the country's problems weren't simply the result of people working for others for a guaranteed standard of living socialism, it has more to do with abuse of power, which is exactly what you described.
 
Whoa dude slow down. You went off on like 1000 tangents there.

Did I give the impression that I support socialism? If that's what you got from my post then I apologize for not being clearer. I am fully aware socialism sucks. However I saw the first few posts of this thread and I got the impression that people wanted to blame the concept of socialism itself for the current situation. What I was trying to say is that Chavez used it as a tool to exploit his own people for his own personal gain.

I even said in another post that absolute power corrupts absolutely. The concept of socialism itself isn't evil, it's just a very flawed concept that can be easily exploited by people with evil intentions. You could actually say the same thing about capitalism. In Venezuela's case they had a manipulative president who exploited his people and his country's natural resources for his own gain.

Interestingly enough, Venezuela rose to prosperity in the 20th Century under a president that employed socialist policies long before Hugo Chavez.

I just wanted to help people understand that the country's problems weren't simply the result of people working for others for a guaranteed standard of living socialism, it has more to do with abuse of power, which is exactly what you described.
My comment responded to this.
Not here to defend or even talk about socialism, cuz I think some of you have the wrong impression of the issues in Venezuela.

The main problem is corruption. I have family in Venezuela and I know for a fact it was a very strong and wealthy country not too long ago. Chavez took control and essentially made himself a totalitarian dictator and shit started going out of control.
We don't have the wrong impression. Socialism devastated this country. Calling it "corruption" is just a rose by another name. The people were almost 50/50 split between support of Chavez and his socialist schemes. Brazil is at least equally corrupt, especially with regard to their oil industry, and despite that this killed their status as the darling of the developing world, they are still able to put on a freaking Olympic games; stocking shelves with sugar-- something Venezuela can't even successfully do-- is pretty low on their bar of achievements.

Venezuela never "rose to prosperity under socialism". WTF? As I just wrote, they first nationalized the oil industry in 1976 and have struggled since. It was only through the 1970's that they were one of the more prosperous and stable democracies. All he achieved was to lay the groundwork for his state's own demise. They already experienced smaller, more temporary collapses due to this oil industry socialization due to low global oil prices in the 1980's and 1990's.

Look, this is their PPP history going back to 1990 (nine years before Chavez took control):
venezuela-gdp-per-capita-ppp.png


Notice it spikes only after they illegally stole the most profitable infrastructure in their country from American and British companies by dishonoring their own contracts. Why? Because they were already crashing, and Chavez needed a way to rehabilitate. I love how the left is so willing to shit on Chavez now when he was the darling of the Canadian liberals as he called Bush the "great devil". Everyone talked about how he was the noble little guy standing up against the evil Western imperialist capitalists a decade ago. It wasn't specific to Chavez; only exacerbated under him as he ambitiously increased the alignment of government socialist control over their country's primary source of revenue. The following market dynamic should come as no surprise. It's inevitable in such a centralized socio-political economy:
http://www.americasquarterly.org/content/venezuela-chávez-anatomy-economic-collapse-ricardo-hausmann-and-francisco-r-rodríguez
Underlining the critical role of oil (which today, according to the book, accounts for 80 percent of exports and 40 percent of government revenue), the editors and authors conclude that Venezuela’s dependence on petroleum exports eventually crowded out other factors necessary for a healthy economy. Economics professors María Antonia Moreno of the Universidad Central de Venezuela and Cameron Shelton of Claremont McKenna College show that mini-booms in oil prices consistently reverse growth in the non-oil sector, which sees an average 3.3 percent growth in pre-boom years turn into -2.8 percent in post-boom years.

Now this same wing is so eager to throw Chavez under the bus like socialism wasn't the bus itself.
 
Madmick I'm glad you're well informed on the situation, but I still think you got the impression I wasn't trying to blame socialism and indirectly say that socialism is acceptable.

I know full and well how the country has been doing for the past century. My Portuguese father met my mother in Venezuela- after WWII ravaged Europe Venezuela was seen as a beacon of hope for many European expats. The government got involved in the economy, raised taxes, and built up the infrastructure of what was once a third world country.

It's all right here

http://countrystudies.us/venezuela/22.htm

Is that laissez-faire capitalism?

I have another question: Sweden, Finland, Denmark all have governments that are heavily involved with the economy and tax rates are sky high. Are those countries on the brink of disaster?

For the last time I am not an advocate for socialism, the Democratic Party, etc. All I was saying that absolute power in the hands of a manipulative and corrupt government is a recipe for disaster. The answer to Venezuela's situation isn't as simple as "socialism sucks".
 
Or basing ur whole economy on oil and watching as it becomes as cheap as water
Lets not pretend the right woulda done much better
Free markets and liberty are the way to human flourishing. It's not rocket science. Yet here's another example of the failure of socialism and like a zombie, the ideology won't die.
 
Some of you should research bolivar revolution, and then stop saying their a socialist country. I actually liked Chavez, but maduro really turning into a pos.
 
Free markets and liberty are the way to human flourishing. It's not rocket science. Yet here's another example of the failure of socialism and like a zombie, the ideology won't die.
Liberty and free markets?wtf are u on about lots of 'socialist ' countries have those (are u confusing socialism and communism?)
This is what happens when u try to go towards communism on top of having an oil based economy in an oil freefall
 
As Venezuela's farms and factories falter, the country struggles to feed its people
By Chris Kraul and Mery Mogollon
August 11, 2016

750x422


Just a decade ago, Venezuela was producing nearly all of the sugar it needed.

But this week, 30,000 tons of imported Guatemalan sugar is being offloaded at the port city of Puerto Cabello for delivery to government-run supermarkets across the country, where desperate shoppers typically line up for hours to buy basic foodstuffs.

In some ways, the sacks of sugar being lowered on pallets to waiting trucks at Dock 10 symbolize the plight of a country that has seen the production of sugar and other products plummet. Venezuela now imports 80% of all the sugar it consumes, and many economists say 17 years of socialist policies are to blame.

Last year, the country produced 242,306 tons of refined sugar, less than one-third of the 740,000 tons produced in 2006 when the country came close to meeting annual consumer demand of 900,000 tons, according to figures from Fesoca, the Venezuelan sugar trade association.

But 2006 also was the year that President Hugo Chavez nationalized 10 of the 16 privately owned sugar refineries and turned them over to worker cooperatives, part of his “21st Century Socialism” agenda. After taking office in 1999 and until his death in 2013, Chavez also seized thousands of acres of sugar cane plantations and made them communal properties.

Comradely gestures to be sure, but sugar production has rapidly declined ever since the seizures. In May, scarcities got so bad that Coca-Cola temporarily suspended production of its popular line of soft drinks, saying it couldn’t buy enough supplies of the industrial sweetener.

Sugar production isn’t the only sector battered by the policies instituted by Chavez and continued under his successor, President Nicolas Maduro. Beef, coffee, toothpaste, auto parts, toilet paper and various medicines are just some of the items that Venezuela once produced on a large scale and that now must be imported to meet domestic demand.

At the same time productivity is plunging, the steep drop in global oil prices over the last two years has cut into oil revenue on which Venezuela depends for foreign currency and to bolster its budget. As a result, Maduro can’t afford to sufficiently increase imports of basic goods, which have already doubled from the mid-1990s, to meet consumer demand.

The upshot: long lines of shoppers waiting hours outside stores to buy increasingly scarce household items.

750x422

People line up to buy basic items outside a supermarket this week in Caracas. Once-booming Venezuela now suffers from shortages of food, medicine and basic goods.


Maduro insists it’s all the fault of an “economic war” waged by the United States. Juan Pablo Olalquiaga, president of Conindustria, the largest trade group of Venezuelan manufacturers, counters that industry has been decimated by nationalizations, government-imposed price and currency controls, as well as difficulties in obtaining component parts or materials to make things.

The latter factor was cited by Kimberly Clark in July when the U.S.-based company announced it was closing its factory where it manufactured toilet paper, disposable diapers and feminine hygiene products. In a statement, the company said economic conditions in Venezuela made it “impossible” to do business here.

Maduro called the closure illegal and promised to reopen and staff the factory with 1,000 laid-off workers, but analysts were skeptical that the factory would fare any better than the nationalized sugar mills.

Kimberly Clark’s departure follows those of other multinationals since Maduro took office in 2013, including Clorox, Bridgestone, Procter & Gamble, General Mills and Ford, not to mention hundreds of domestic firms. Conindustria estimates that Venezuela has lost 1.2 million direct and indirect manufacturing jobs since 1999.

“Two decades ago, Venezuela had 12,700 industrial companies,” Olalquiaga said. “Only 4,000 are left….The government of President Maduro has been absolutely incompetent in taking correct policies and so the deterioration of the few companies left has continued.”

The auto industry has been hit especially hard. According to Cavenez, the Venezuelan automobile trade association, this year Venezuelan assembly lines are on course to produce around 4,000 cars. During the 1980s, Venezuela sometimes averaged upwards of 200,000 autos assembled yearly.

Minister of Industry Carlos Farias, the Cabinet official in Maduro’s government responsible for managing the supply of consumer goods to the nation, is the latest to occupy the hot seat. His predecessor, Miguel Perez Abad, only lasted seven months on the job, and the minister before him, Luis Salas, for one month.

Maduro’s appointment of Abad in January led some to think industrial policies might be redirected to stimulate private investment as a way to restart the country’s poor productivity.

But his abrupt firing Aug. 2, after making statements that seemed to presage free-market-friendlier policies, put an end to such optimism. Abad had favored liberalizing Venezuela’s currency laws and said in May that the government would cut down on imports to be able to pay its debts.

Maduro has hosted conferences with government officials and business leaders to attempt to “reactivate productive motors” and called on entrepreneurs to “break their piggy banks and bring your dollars.” But critics say he had done little to rectify the effects of nationalizations, price controls and scarcity of spare parts.

So, any short-term reactivation of Venezuelan industry is a long shot and the economy could take years to recover. The International Monetary Fund expects inflation to reach 700% this year and the economy to shrink by 10 percentage points. The government will be hard pressed to pay $10 billion in foreign debt obligations this year.

Meanwhile, Maduro’s Cabinet ministers accentuate the positive.

“Everything we have recovered is in the hands of the people,” said oil and mining minister Eulogio Del Pino, another Maduro hard-liner. “No steps backward.”

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-venezuela-imports-20160809-snap-story.html
 
Venezuela food crisis deepens as shipments plummet
by Patrick Gillespie
August 11, 2016

160811111055-venezuela-food-export-780x439.jpg


You name it, Venezuela is short of it: Meat, fish, fruits, sugar and bread. The government just doesn't have enough money to pay for them.


It's created a staggering humanitarian crisis in Venezuela, where citizens don't have enough food to eat. Looting and riots have rocked the country. The declines in exports of certain food categories are staggering.
  • Bread shipments to Venezuela fell 94% in the first half of 2016 compared to the the same period last year. That's $216,000 worth of bread this year, versus $3.5 million last year.
  • Meat exports declined 63% to $127 million, from nearly $350 million last year
  • Exports of fruit such as bananas and strawberries plunged 99%, to $159,000, from $21 million
  • Fish exports dropped 87%
  • Sugar fell 34%
The numbers come from Panjiva, a global trade analytics firm, which pulls data from the United Nations, U.S. customs and other governments. For this article, Panjiva pulled export data from the United States, Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador and Chile. Venezuela likely gets food from other countries that were excluded from this analysis.

Venezuelans "can't buy bread and meat and all you can really get is cereals -- the really, really basic stuff," says Chris Rogers, a research analyst at Panjiva.

Venezuela's economy has plunged into a deep recession and the country is fast running out of cash.

The key problem behind Venezuela's inability to pay its bills is that the value of its currency, the bolivar, has plummeted dramatically in the last couple of years. That's made paying for food imports prohibitively expensive.

"The Brazilians aren't unwilling to sell meat to Venezuela. It's not a political thing. The Venezuelans just don't have the money," says Rogers.

However, exports of a handful of basic foods did go up. U.S. corn exports to Venezuela rose to $239 million from $140 million last year. And vegetable exports rose to $270,000 from $102,000.

Panjiva's numbers parallel other, broader estimates. Bank of America forecasts Venezuela's total imports dropped between 40% and 45% in the first five months of this year from last year. Venezuela's government doesn't publish reliable import data.

Venezuela is the world's worst-performing economy this year, according to the IMF. Its economy is projected to shrink 10% this year and inflation could skyrocket over 700%.

The government seems to have prioritized its debt payments over food shortages. Venezuelans wait in lines outside supermarkets often for hours only to find empty shelves. It's hard to find bread, eggs and other basic items.

The country is also short on basic medicines, leaving some to die in hospitals and many to languish without proper treatment.

It's an especially tragic situation because Venezuela has more oil reserves than any other country in the world. Plus one of its neighbors, Brazil, is among the world's top food exporters.

Venezuela has denied food and humanitarian aid from groups like Amnesty International and the United Nations. Amnesty officials contest that the government doesn't want to accept aid because that would make the government look inadequate.

Despite its focus on debt payments, Venezuela is actually struggling to pay those bills too. With oil prices having plunged in the last two years, Venezuela's state-run oil company, PDVSA, is next to broke. In April, Schlumberger, which provides oil-drilling equipment and technology, said it would lower its services to Venezuela due to unpaid bills. With less drilling capability, Venezuela's oil production has fallen to a 13-year low.

Now Venezuela's government, led by President Nicolas Maduro, is trying to revamp the country's agricultural sector, which long lacked significant investment, to address the food shortages, experts say.

Maduro issued a decree in July that would force citizens to work on state-owned farms for up to 60 days and perhaps longer "if circumstances merit."

http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/11/news/economy/venezuela-food-shortages/
 
What is most disgusting about this kind of socialism is how the US and the west automatically get the blame for it's failings by these clowns and people swallow it whole. Government asshoes harping on about how everything is in 'the hands of the people' when it is all being bled dry by a small group of Maduro's friends who will high tail it out of Venezuela to the 'hated' west when the whole thing finally collapses.

This shit happens in a constant loop and people never learn not to trust these populist dickholes.
 
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