Manhunt: Unabomber - Discovery's new scripted series on the hunt for Ted Kaczynski

[Guestx]

It's a great production. Very well-acted. The story really pulls you in, and you can feel the desperation of the people working on the case.

I'm pretty sure this is Discovery's first attempt at a scripted series. For a first attempt, it's definitely pretty solid.

It seems that this is the way a lot of these kinds of channels are going. History started it with Vikings. NatGeo did a scripted series on Albert Einstein just a little while back. And now Discovery is doing the same thing with the Unabomber.

 

[Philo-Publius]

I'm pretty sure this is Discovery's first attempt at a scripted series. For a first attempt, it's definitely pretty solid.

It seems that this is the way a lot of these kinds of channels are going. History started it with Vikings. NatGeo did a scripted series on Albert Einstein just a little while back. And now Discovery is doing the same thing with the Unabomber.

Vikings is a fantastic show too. What is the series about Albert Einstein called? I would like to check that out.

 

[DeepCover]

Okay, I may check this out. I remember when this went down, but forgot how he got caught.

 

[Guestx]

Vikings is a fantastic show too. What is the series about Albert Einstein called? I would like to check that out.

It's called Genius. Geoffrey Rush plays the lead. Emily Watson plays his wife.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Really enthralling all around. Great acting, scripting and pacing. Really love it!

 

[Philo-Publius]

It's called Genius. Geoffrey Rush plays the lead. Emily Watson plays his wife.

For some reason, when I search for "Genius" through my cable provider, it only comes up with some movie that came out in 2016.

 

[Guestx]

For some reason, when I search for "Genius" through my cable provider, it only comes up with some movie that came out in 2016.

I dunno what to tell you on that one. If you're really interested in it, I'm sure there are several corners of the Internet you could find the episodes in.

 

[MusterX]

@shadow_priest_x Ted Kaczynski's story is a fascinating one to be sure. He wasn't just some wack job. Yes, he was mentally ill, but also smart as fuck, a math prodigy who attended Harvard. The only reason they caught him was pure luck. Even years after he had been sending bombs they had no idea who he was. It was a stroke of luck that his brother saw his manifesto and recognized his hand writing. The reasons why he was sending the bombs was also very interesting.

 

[Guestx]

@shadow_priest_x Ted Kaczynski's story is a fascinating one to be sure. He wasn't just some wack job.

Yeah, I agree with that.

We've talked a bit about my misgivings regarding technology before, so of course I'm sympathetic to Ted's concerns.

It was a stroke of luck that his brother saw his manifesto and recognized his hand writing.

This is actually where I'm a bit confused about the direction of the show. Because the show makes it out to be that there was this linguist within the FBI who was at least largely responsible for Ted being captured. I already knew the bit about his brother (but was it really handwriting? or was it writing style?), but I never heard anything about this dude.

 

[MusterX]

All right, I finished episode three last night.

The show was pretty good to start, but it takes a substantial step up once Paul Bettany comes into the picture as Kaczynski. He's killing it.

I assume you want to talk about it or are you in a "no spoiler" zone? I'll put some of my thoughts in a spoiler tag and you can click it or not.

Spoiler

Ted did his bombings from 1978 to 1995. His manifesto ended up being 35,000 words long but the main thrust of the idea, as taken from Wiki, is the following.

Kaczynski states that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[89] He argues that because of technological advances, most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits which he calls "surrogate activities", wherein people strive towards artificial goals, such as scientific work, consuming mass entertainment, following sports teams, etc.[89] He predicts that further advances in technology will ultimately result in "extensive genetic engineering of human beings, so that man in the future will no longer be a creation of nature, or of chance or of God," and that "social systems will not be adjusted to suit the needs of human beings. Instead, human beings will be adjusted to suit the needs of the system."[89] He states that "[m]any people understand something of what technological progress is doing to us yet take a passive attitude towards it because they think it is inevitable. But we don't think it is inevitable. We think it can be stopped,"[90]

How close is he, or how accurate is he to today's world? I think he's spot on concerning where society has gone as a result of our industrial revolution and then technological revolution. Computers and entertainment have become ubiquitous in society. We have an epidemic of fat kids because most of them don't go outside anymore, they play on ipads and computers and their friends are mostly online friends for many of them. That's just one example of dozens of negative effects that Kaczynski feared.

I find the guys story incredibly fascinating because he was a math prodigy, attended Harvard, was a professor at University of California, Berkeley at the age of 25. That's the youngest professor ever hired by the University of California at Berkeley. He was a P.h.D. in Mathematics. How smart was Ted? Check this out. When he wrote his dissertation on Boundary Functions, his dissertation advisor had this to say about it.

Kaczynski's doctoral thesis was entitled "Boundary Functions".[32] Regarding the thesis, Kaczynski's doctoral advisor Allen Shields stated it was "the best I have ever directed".[30] Maxwell Reade, a retired math professor who served on Kaczynski's dissertation committee, also commented on the thesis by noting, "I would guess that maybe 10 or 12 men in the country understood or appreciated it."[31

My point here is what happened in this guy that made him end up the way he did. Was he so smart shit just drove him nuts or what? This is not your normal lowlife killer story. Kaczynski's story is unusual in scope.

 

[MusterX]

Yeah, I agree with that.

We've talked a bit about my misgivings regarding technology before, so of course I'm sympathetic to Ted's concerns.



This is actually where I'm a bit confused about the direction of the show. Because the show makes it out to be that there was this linguist within the FBI who was at least largely responsible for Ted being captured. I already knew the bit about his brother (but was it really handwriting? or was it writing style?), but I never heard anything about this dude.

Ted was wiley like a fox. He was all about natural man, untainted by technology and he actually put tree bark in his bombs. The F.B.I. knew it had something to do with nature but couldn't figure out what was going on completely. Ted would leave them false clues to make them look in the wrong places and waste their time. He would sign the bombs with initials FC so they would have to guess who or what FC was. There were many different false clues he gave them.

The guy was wicked smart. Like I said, they never would have caught him if not for his brother and I've never heard of an F.B.I. agent figuring it out. This is taken from a 1996 article and it specifically mentions his brother figuring it out and reporting it to the F.B.I.

But even Unabombers are not infallible. Exulting in his apparent mastery of the FBI, the master criminal made his mistake, in the form of a 35,000- word treatise on the "Future of Industrial Society", which he submitted to the Washington Post and New York Times. If they published the rambling, anti-technology manifesto, the writer said, he would cease his campaign. After much soul-searching, the two papers did so on 20 September 1995, on the advice of the FBI.


Relatives in Chicago were struck by similarities between some of Ted Kaczynski's earlier writings and the rambling musings of the Unabomber's tract, and eventually his brother informed the FBI. And so the trail of 18 years, dotted with 200 detained suspects along the way, led to a hand- built cabin near the Continental divide. But the tale may not yet be over.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/have-they-now-caught-the-unabomber-1303341.html

 

[DataBreach]

I assume you want to talk about it or are you in a "no spoiler" zone? I'll put some of my thoughts in a spoiler tag and you can click it or not.

Spoiler

Ted did his bombings from 1978 to 1995. His manifesto ended up being 35,000 words long but the main thrust of the idea, as taken from Wiki, is the following.

Kaczynski states that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[89] He argues that because of technological advances, most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits which he calls "surrogate activities", wherein people strive towards artificial goals, such as scientific work, consuming mass entertainment, following sports teams, etc.[89] He predicts that further advances in technology will ultimately result in "extensive genetic engineering of human beings, so that man in the future will no longer be a creation of nature, or of chance or of God," and that "social systems will not be adjusted to suit the needs of human beings. Instead, human beings will be adjusted to suit the needs of the system."[89] He states that "[m]any people understand something of what technological progress is doing to us yet take a passive attitude towards it because they think it is inevitable. But we don't think it is inevitable. We think it can be stopped,"[90]

How close is he, or how accurate is he to today's world? I think he's spot on concerning where society has gone as a result of our industrial revolution and then technological revolution. Computers and entertainment have become ubiquitous in society. We have an epidemic of fat kids because most of them don't go outside anymore, they play on ipads and computers and their friends are mostly online friends for many of them. That's just one example of dozens of negative effects that Kaczynski feared.

I find the guys story incredibly fascinating because he was a math prodigy, attended Harvard, was a professor at University of California, Berkeley at the age of 25. That's the youngest professor ever hired by the University of California at Berkeley. He was a P.h.D. in Mathematics. How smart was Ted? Check this out. When he wrote his dissertation on Boundary Functions, his dissertation advisor had this to say about it.

Kaczynski's doctoral thesis was entitled "Boundary Functions".[32] Regarding the thesis, Kaczynski's doctoral advisor Allen Shields stated it was "the best I have ever directed".[30] Maxwell Reade, a retired math professor who served on Kaczynski's dissertation committee, also commented on the thesis by noting, "I would guess that maybe 10 or 12 men in the country understood or appreciated it."[31

My point here is what happened in this guy that made him end up the way he did. Was he so smart shit just drove him nuts or what? This is not your normal lowlife killer story. Kaczynski's story is unusual in scope.

If you want to understand why Ted went "nuts" I can explain it. I already began to in post #18 in the thread below.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-unabombers-manifesto.3598707/

Let me know if you want more clarification.

 

[MusterX]

If you want to understand why Ted went "nuts" I can explain it. I already began to in post #18 in the thread below.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-unabombers-manifesto.3598707/

Let me know if you want more clarification.

No man speaks for God. God has providence over all things. So I don't really think you can point to God and say, well God didn't reveal this to Ted. Its more likely that Ted suffered from some mental illness. Ted's brother said the following.

David Kaczynski says the signs that Ted suffered from mental illness were there since the pair were children.

Kaczynski told the audience that he first asked his mother at the age of 6 or 7 what was wrong with "Teddy." Ted was socially awkward, and didn't enjoy many of the pastimes that other children did.


Kaczynski said his mother explained that not everyone is the same and that Ted was just following his own path.


"She said, 'You're both valuable in your own way,' " he recalls, adding that what his mother told him next has stayed with -- even haunted him -- at times.


Kaczynski said his mother always attributed Ted's odd behavior to a time in the boy's infancy when he became ill and required a two-week hospital stay. Because of hospital policy, Ted's parents weren't able to visit often, and after that hospitalization, he was never the same.


Kaczynski's mother was convinced that due to that separation, Ted's greatest fear was being abandoned, and Mrs. Kaczynski made her younger son promise never to abandon Ted.


That became particularly difficult as Ted aged and his illness became more pronounced.


Even as Ted advanced in the field of mathematics, he began to withdraw from society, and his family was no exception to that.

 

[DataBreach]

No man speaks for God. God has providence over all things. So I don't really think you can point to God and say, well God didn't reveal this to Ted. Its more likely that Ted suffered from some mental illness. Ted's brother said the following.

David Kaczynski says the signs that Ted suffered from mental illness were there since the pair were children.

Kaczynski told the audience that he first asked his mother at the age of 6 or 7 what was wrong with "Teddy." Ted was socially awkward, and didn't enjoy many of the pastimes that other children did.


Kaczynski said his mother explained that not everyone is the same and that Ted was just following his own path.


"She said, 'You're both valuable in your own way,' " he recalls, adding that what his mother told him next has stayed with -- even haunted him -- at times.


Kaczynski said his mother always attributed Ted's odd behavior to a time in the boy's infancy when he became ill and required a two-week hospital stay. Because of hospital policy, Ted's parents weren't able to visit often, and after that hospitalization, he was never the same.


Kaczynski's mother was convinced that due to that separation, Ted's greatest fear was being abandoned, and Mrs. Kaczynski made her younger son promise never to abandon Ted.


That became particularly difficult as Ted aged and his illness became more pronounced.


Even as Ted advanced in the field of mathematics, he began to withdraw from society, and his family was no exception to that.

None of that points to him sending bombs in the mail.

It's ignorant (perhaps even dishonest) to not believe the same mind that figured out the most complex math equations was not then used to construct bombs, send them without getting caught and leave clues providing false evidence to mock and then dissuade the FBI.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

The mind that understood and did the math was the same mind that sent the bombs.

Your "mental illness" is just a straw man that has no merit once you look at the evidence. Did he try and plead insanity? Was it ever found on any level he was actually mentally ill?

Edit: I actually researched if he was found mentally ill? Funny enough, two psychiatrists wanted to claim he was mentally ill. Here is the funny part. It was do to the fact he believed in illuminati type organizations that rendered him powerless. So, due to both of our beliefs we too would be considered mentally ill because we both believe in the existence of shadow governments and the illuminati.

The internet changed the narrative. Half the people on CT websites today would've been considered mentally ill in 1996. Today, not so much.

End Edit.

Regarding God. The Bible perfectly explains how the process works and ultimately it's built on repentance.

Ted never showed an ounce of remorse or repentance before, during or after he was caught. He was still mocking the police from behind bars. His utter lack of remorse disqualifies him from God's truth process (which only occurs in conjunction with continual repentance). So, his process of searching for truth did not work in conjunction with the God of the Bible.

Long story short, he went after deep truths separate from God's power and he grew resentful of humanity. This drove him to send bombs in the mail to balance his frustrations and anger. All his actions were premeditated and highly thought out. He was mad and now the people making him mad had to pay. Absolutely nothing mentally ill about that. It's lock, stock and barrel good old fashioned human nature issues.

Once again you don't get deeper answers because you lack the ability to learn humbly.

 

[MusterX]

None of that points to him sending bombs in the mail.

It's ignorant (perhaps even dishonest) to not believe the same mind that figured out the most complex math equations was not then used to construct bombs, send them without getting caught and leave clues providing false evidence to mock and then dissuade the FBI.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

The mind that understood and did the math was the same mind that sent the bombs.

Your "mental illness" is just a straw man that has no merit once you look at the evidence. Did he try and plead insanity? Was it ever found on any level he was actually mentally ill?

Family members opinions don't count.

Regarding God. The Bible perfectly explains how the process works and ultimately it's built on repentance.

Ted never showed an ounce of remorse or repentance before, during or after he was caught. He was still mocking the police from behind bars. His utter lack of remorse disqualifies him from God's truth process (which only occurs in conjunction with continual repentance). So, his process of searching for truth did not work in conjunction with the God of the Bible.

Long story short, he went after deep truths separate from God's power and he grew resentful of humanity. This drive him to send bombs in the mail to balance his frustrations and anger. All his actions were premeditated and highly thought out.

Once again you don't get deeper answers because you lack the ability to learn humbly.

I have no idea what it is you are going on about. Quite obviously Ted wasn't doing the bidding of God, he was deranged. He didn't plead insanity or mentally ill because he thought it would hurt his cause. He didn't want people to think he was mentally ill but he was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic by the court when they assessed him based on interviews and 40 years of his journal which he kept religiously from 1960 onward.

 

[DataBreach]

I have no idea what it is you are going on about. Quite obviously Ted wasn't doing the bidding of God, he was deranged. He didn't plead insanity or mentally ill because he thought it would hurt his cause. He didn't want people to think he was mentally ill but he was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic by the court when they assessed him based on interviews and 40 years of his journal which he kept religiously from 1960 onward.

Read my edit in my last post.

I never said he was doing the bidding of God. If you didn't even read my post #18 that I gave you a link to in my first response then forget it.

You'll have no clue of my position on the matter.

And if you read it and think I am saying the Unabomber was doing God's work you lost me completely.

It's about the process of finding truths. With God on your side it's possible. If you do it on your own you're going to grow bitter and resentful and hurt yourself and maybe a few others too.

 

[MusterX]

Read my edit in my last post.

I never said he was doing the bidding of God. If you didn't even read my post #18 that I gave you a link to in my first response to you then forget it.

You'll have no clue of my position on the matter.

Sure I read it. The problem is Ted Kaczynski was terribly mentally ill. No amount of biblical knowledge would have helped him in that situation. He could try to seek God's truth but his brain was sending the wrong signals. He isolated from society, from friends and family, as many schizophrenics do and he believed that he was protesting in a legitimate way. That's why he didn't want the court saying he was mentally ill because people wouldn't take him seriously. He was incredibly smart though.

 

[DataBreach]

Sure I read it. The problem is Ted Kaczynski was terribly mentally ill. No amount of biblical knowledge would have helped him in that situation. He could try to seek God's truth but his brain was sending the wrong signals. He isolated from society, from friends and family, as many schizophrenics do and he believed that he was protesting in a legitimate way. That's why he didn't want the court saying he was mentally ill because people wouldn't take him seriously. He was incredibly smart though.

Sorry. Can't take you seriously. A lot of people wanted him to be crazy to justify the things he did. An intelligent man who fell headlong into his human nature is too hard to explain. He's crazy! Probably a Nazi too! Now that makes sense

The truth is always harder to explain and quite messy too.

Nope.

His actions weren't the actions of a crazy man. They were the actions of an informed man who broke under the pressure of the things he had seen and had no control over. So he killed to gain back a semblance of control. Again, nothing crazy about that. The worst of human nature? Perhaps. Crazy? Nope.

And before you come back here and act like killing makes him crazy...

We have politicians who go to war for oil. They kill thousands of innocents.

Are you going to claim they're crazy too?

 

[MusterX]

Sorry. Can't take you seriously. A lot of people wanted him to be crazy to justify the things he did. An intelligent man who fell headlong into his human nature is too hard to explain. He's crazy! Probably a Nazi too! Now that makes sense

The truth is always harder to explain and quite messy too.

Nope.

His actions weren't the actions of a crazy man. They were the actions of an informed man who broke under the pressure of the things he had seen and had no control over. So he killed to gain back a semblance of control. Again, nothing crazy about that. The worst of human nature? Perhaps. Crazy? Nope.

And before you come back here and act like killing makes him crazy...

We have politicians who go to war for oil. They kill thousands of innocents.

Are you going to claim they're crazy too?

I never said anything about crazy. I said he was a paranoid schizophrenic.

 

[DataBreach]

I never said anything about crazy. I said he was a paranoid schizophrenic.

Two professionals disagree with you:

Wikipedia:

Kaczynski's lawyers, headed by Montana federal defender Michael Donahoe and Judy Clarke, attempted to enter an insanity defense to avoid the death penalty, but Kaczynski rejected this plea. A court-appointed psychiatrist diagnosed Kaczynski as suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, but declared him competent to stand trial.[123] In his 2010 book Technological Slavery, Kaczynski recalls that two prison psychologists, James Watterson and Michael Morrison, who visited him almost every day for a period of four years told him that they saw no indication that he suffered from any such serious mental illness, and that the paranoid schizophrenia diagnosis was "ridiculous" and a "political diagnosis." Morrison also made remarks to him about psychologists and psychiatrists providing any desired diagnosis if they are well paid for doing so.