Columbus statue covered up in LA, Columbus Day removed and replaced by Indiginous Peoples Day

Should Columbus Day be removed and replaced with Indigenous Peoples Day?


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Alright, you bunch of goofballs, I see it is once again that time of year where I have to educate you all once again as to the real story of Cristobal Columbo, AKA Christopher Columbus. The modern story of Christopher Columbus as it is told, the story of genocide and what not, comes entirely for Howard Zinn, who on top of being a huge Liberal is a massive and well documented liar. Zinn's entire account of the Columbus tale not only incorrectly claims that Columbus was responsible for committing genoicide on the Taino and exterminating them from the earth (despite the fact that they still exist all across South America today) but tells the story that this was the only tribe that Columbus encountered. This is not true. Columbus dealt with at least 3 tribes of Natives in Haiti, the Arawaks, the Taino and the Carib. The Carib and the Taino were the ones dealt with the most, as the Taino where seen by Columbus and his men as wealthy and properous, and the Carib constantly attacked them and more than likely engaged in Cannibalism. Early on in their interactions Columbus and his men essentially served as muscle for the Taino as they fought against the Carib, and the absolutely enslaved natives and put them to work in the mines. The natives they enslaved were Carib and Arawaks captured in fights against the Taino. The claim that he and his men killed millions of people is beyond preposterous. He never had more than a few hundred soldiers, if that, with him at any given time. Secondly, Columbus had a Priest with him during his second voyage and afterward named Bartolome De Las Casas. De Las Casas was one of the main witnesses against Columbus when he was eventually put on trial later in his life for the very same crimes that Zinn is accusing him of today. One of the main pieces of evidence against him was a "secret" journal that De Las Casas had taken of Columbus' that he sent back to Spain along with other reports on the situation in Haiti about the crfimes Columbus was allegedly committing. This Journal was the basis for much almost all of Zinn's work. Just a slight problem though. The journal was written in beautiful hand writing, in gramatically perfect Latin and Greek. Columbus, however was an unducated peasant who could barely write legibly in Italian or Spanish, the only two languages that he spoke. Columbus was exonerated for the crimes that he is still accused of to this day by people like Zinn WHILE HE WAS STILL ALIVE IN THE LATE 1400S.

Now, let's address the silly "He got lost going to India" line of thinking. This is just as absurd. Columbus grew up in Genoa, at the time the single most important port city in the world. He was a cartographer's assistant at 14, during a time when maps where used as currency. He would have grown up making maps from around the world, and had access to all of the knowledge within. By his mid 20s he was at sea and his late 20s the capitan of his own ship that had made at least 2 trips to Iceland, the place that just so happens to be the home of Lief Erickson. People don't seem to realize that amongst seafareing peoples the fact that there was land far away to the West was a commonly accepted fact for roughly 500 years by the time Columbus came around. What Columbus did was con Spain into agreeing to name him the Duke of any previously undiscovered lands that he may encounter on his way West with rights to profits from trade and title to descend through his hiers for ever. The rest is history. That's the real story of Columbus, glad I could be of help.

That's quite the post you have there. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Columbus. However, a quick Google search and I found this.

Lost document reveals Columbus as tyrant of the Caribbean

As governor and viceroy of the Indies, Columbus imposed iron discipline on the first Spanish colony in the Americas, in what is now the Caribbean country of Dominican Republic. Punishments included cutting off people's ears and noses, parading women naked through the streets and selling them into slavery.

One man caught stealing corn had his nose and ears cut off, was placed in shackles and was then auctioned off as a slave. A woman who dared to suggest that Columbus was of lowly birth was punished by his brother Bartolomé, who had also traveled to the Caribbean. She was stripped naked and paraded around the colony on the back of a mule.

"Bartolomé ordered that her tongue be cut out," said Ms Varela. "Christopher congratulated him for defending the family."

The evidence has been found in a previously lost report drawn up at the time for the Spanish monarchs as they became worried by growing rumours of Columbus' barbarity and avarice. The document was written by a member of an order of religious knights, the Order of Calatrava, who had been asked to investigate the allegations against Columbus by Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand, who ruled Spain together at the time.

The report, by Francisco de Bobadilla, lay undiscovered in a state archive in the Spanish city of Valladolid until last year. Bobadilla had already been named governor of the Indies, replacing Columbus, at the time of the report.

The 48-page document gathers evidence from Columbus' enemies and supporters of his seven-year reign. Ms Varela, one of the two Spanish historians to have studied the document, described life in the colony as "horrifying and hard".

Bobadilla collected the testimonies of 23 people who had seen or heard about the treatment meted out by Columbus and his brothers. "Even those who loved him had to admit the atrocities that had taken place," Ms Varela said.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/07/books.spain

He seems like a bad person to me. Not someone to be celebrated.
 
i just tend to think its more Hate YT thing than anti-Columbus, promoted by our friends on the left as usual
At least lfd had an argument and a stance, you're just a sheep who can't think without simplifying it to one team or the other.
 
I mean, look at their responses. They aren't going to read it. Because actually knowing the truth of an unpopular position is hard.

You guys seem obsessed with Zinn, an author i never read.

Im basing my opinions on his attrocities on the book by historian Consuelo Varela.
 
You guys seem obsessed with Zinn, an author i never read.

Im basing my opinions on his attrocities on the book by historian Consuelo Varela.
They're just going to accuse her of being a communist puppet under control of the Soviet Union. The conversation is stuck in the mud, only thing we can do is start flinging it at eachother and hope we dig ourselves out at some point.
 
They're just going to accuse her of being a communist puppet under control of the Soviet Union. The conversation is stuck in the mud, only thing we can do is start flinging it at eachother and hope we dig ourselves out at some point.

Thats not really what baffles me.

What baffles me is the accusation of Colon being stripped of all the riches of the new colonies, when by all accounts they were poor as hell.

Malnourushed slaves and some nugget of gold were all that Columbus ever managed to extract thats why he left his brothers in charge and was obsessed with reaching India and the lucrative spices there.

Meanwhile the Portuguese were making money hand over fist by trading with Africans and opening more and more ports in their race towards the spice islands.
 
Freely admit I'm not impartial on everything. Also, it's an opinion. Kinda what the whole point of the forum is. No one here maintains strict neutrality. Doesn't mean I don't get tired of it all either or all the armchair activists on either side.
Perhaps I'm not paying enough attention to your post but am I wrong in saying that you're permanently on Yellows? lol
 
Yes. Columbus day is disgusting. He killed lots of natives. I refuse to stand to honor a man that oppressed people of color.

Can't you just refuse to stand for a man that oppressed people. That should be enough.

Why are you so race obsessed.
 
Perhaps I'm not paying enough attention to your post but am I wrong in saying that you're permanently on Yellows? lol
Only the 2nd time I've had yellows. First one was genocidal comment, that while was just mouthing off, was still against the rules.

The 2nd one was a smart ass comment in the shooter topic. Once again posting without truly thinking.

Only 2 though.
 
Only the 2nd time I've had yellows. First one was genocidal comment, that while just mouthing off, was still against the rules.

The 2nd one was a smart ass comment in the shooter topic. Once again posting without truly thinking.

Only 2 though.
And both this year. Been more careless, more stressed and I know if I don't reign that in i'll end up banned.
 
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Only the 2nd time I've had yellows. First one was genocidal comment, that while was just mouthing off, was still against the rules.

The 2nd one was a smart ass comment in the shooter topic. Once again posting without truly thinking.

Only 2 though.
Oh well that's strange, don't know why I thought that
 
What? Hope you get Yellows and eventually a ban? If that happened then the beautiful Monica Bellucci would never look me in the eyes again while I'm Sherdogging. No way.
Lol. I'll get it under control then so you don't loose the eye candy.<45>

Now, no more derailing. There's columbus, or the lack thereof, to bitch about. :) Game on.
 
He didnt knew exactly where he was.

Also he wasnt much of a leader either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinzón_brothers

Of course he didn't know exactly where he was, how could he? There was no map to have even a clue what he was dealing with. That's what made the whole voyage so incredible. Where were all the experts if he was such a looser? Why hadn't all the real sailors made such a trip and showed how easy it was to know exactly where you are inspite of primitive navigation tools and a uncharted world. Maybe the experts were cynics drinking beer and trashing his ass while he was out there actually doing it. That's what critics do.

Hell, no one had a clue how much ocean was in between him and land. Turns out there was the Pacific Ocean on the other side of the continent he bumped into and it was bigger than the Atlantic. How crazy is that?

Even having all the latest navigation, weather monitoring and communication equipment on a modern vessel with twin diesels it's still a bit unnerving seeing land disappear behind you and nothing but open ocean in front. Really have utmost respect for what kind of courage it would take to do that.

Reading many early exploration journals and studying early navigation makes me thankful we have the modern tools we do.
 
Indigenous North American checking in. We don't care about this.

There are less than 2000 members in my specific ethnic group. We don't need the US to legitimize us and we certainly don't need to be grouped with neighboring tribes who we never got along with anyways.

The whiners responsible for this are a waste of time and space.
 
Of course he didn't know exactly where he was, how could he? There was no map to have even a clue what he was dealing with. That's what made the whole voyage so incredible. Where were all the experts if he was such a looser? Why hadn't all the real sailors made such a trip and showed how easy it was to know exactly where you are inspite of primitive navigation tools and a uncharted world. Maybe the experts were cynics drinking beer and trashing his ass while he was out there actually doing it. That's what critics do.

Hell, no one had a clue how much ocean was in between him and land. Turns out there was the Pacific Ocean on the other side of the continent he bumped into and it was bigger than the Atlantic. How crazy is that?

Even having all the latest navigation, weather monitoring and communication equipment on a modern vessel with twin diesels it's still a bit unnerving seeing land disappear behind you and nothing but open ocean in front. Really have utmost respect for what kind of courage it would take to do that.

Reading many early exploration journals and studying early navigation makes me thankful we have the modern tools we do.

People did knew how much ocean there was between India and Europe, thats why people were not doing said voyage.

Also you seemed to miss the part where without the Pinzon brothers reputation and expertise there wouldnt had been any voyage, or how Columbus would had faced a mutinee and how the brothers decided to take another route which led to the islands.
 
Indigenous North American checking in. We don't care about this.

There are less than 2000 members in my specific ethnic group. We don't need the US to legitimize us and we certainly don't need to be grouped with neighboring tribes who we never got along with anyways.

The whiners responsible for this are a waste of time and space.
Hmmm.
 
People did knew how much ocean there was between India and Europe, thats why people were not doing said voyage.

Also you seemed to miss the part where without the Pinzon brothers reputation and expertise there wouldnt had been any voyage, or how Columbus would had faced a mutinee and how the brothers decided to take another route which led to the islands.

They didn't know and they thought you could hit India without hitting a continent first and then even having a bigger ocean to cross. He thought Hispaniola was Japan.

I didn't miss Pinzon brothers part at all. That's why you don't undertake these things by yourself unless you're a ego maniac.

Guess if I started out thinking he was some kind of superhero navigator that could perform miracles beyond what was possible with the tools he had, that he didn't have any help and was the perfect leader, than I might be disappointed.
 
e thought Hispaniola was Japan.

Thats the point, his calculations were way off, he thought the world was much smaller than what it actually was, which is why nobody undertook said voyages.

If it wasnt for America being in the middle of the way he would had either died or faced a mutiny and have people go back.
 
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