Arab-Israeli Conflict, v2: What the UN Jerusalem vote mean for Israel, the U.S, and Palestine

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nonsense. "they...they....they" there is no F'ing "they." even within the PLO there have always been competing factions, some of which genuinely want peace.

and the hilarious part is.........

the mossad have often killed those people, especially the ones that speak with our CIA. they ensure that the only PLO or palestinian leadership that we have access to, are the nutters. our spy robert ames for example. killed his contacts that we were working on solutions with.

Hardliners mess up everything. Sadat was assassinated because he was successfully working for peace with Israel.


 
jewish actions in israel at this point would be like the comanche native americans taking "their land" back at gunpoint. would a white person who was born and lives in modern day texas likely oppose that, violently? of course.
Israe goes back to its original borders, Arabs attack again because they would, can they then take the land
 
Israe goes back to its original borders, Arabs attack again because they would, can they then take the land

"they"

some would

at some point someone in the bloods or the crips has to stop the cycle of violence. stop the revenge bs. defend yourself of course. seek out and F-up the people that attack you. BUT....make it clear who the good guys are. taking people's shit clouds the matter, and justifies further violence.
 
Hardliners mess up everything. Sadat was assassinated because he was successfully working for peace with Israel.



That was the pivotal moment when everything went downhill, and the so-called "Two-State Solution" became a political slogan instead of a goal.

It is my opinion that none of the Palestinian leaders who showed up to the negotiation table after Sadat ever came with the intention of securing a deal, no matter how much concessions are offered. I doubt anyone here who actually followed the baffling result of the 2000 Camp David Summit would come to any other conclusion.

Keep the status quo and at least they are allowed to live by their own extremist factions.
 
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Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem. And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.

- Zechariah 12:2-3, 518 B.C.

Hate on the bible all you want, heatherens, but it's happening.
 
Czech Republic recognizes West Jerusalem as Israel's capital
By Josh Delk - 12/06/17



The Czech Republic announced Wednesday that it will recognize West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, hours after President Trump's own Jerusalem declaration on behalf of the U.S.

Earlier Wednesday, Trump declared that the U.S. will recognize Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, but the statement out of Prague specifically cited the possibility that the ancient city could serve a dual purpose in future peace talks.

“The Czech Republic together with other EU member states, following the EU Foreign Affaires Council Conclusions, considers Jerusalem to be future capital of both states, meaning the State of Israel and the future State of Palestine," the Czech Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

The ministry made clear that it only recognized the western half of Jerusalem to be Israel's capital, the borders of the city before Israel seized control of the eastern half in the Six-Day War of 1967.

While the Czech Republic broke with some other European Union members who do not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, it said it would only consider moving its embassy there after "negotiations with key partners."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-recognizes-west-jerusalem-as-israels-capital
 
Philippine Interested in Moving Embassies to Jerusalem

1851906233.jpg


Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte expressed interest in moving his country's embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, Channel 1 news reported on Wednesday, a day after U.S. President Donald Trump announced his intention to relocate the U.S. embassy.

According to the report, the Czech Republic expressed interest in moving their embassy to Jerusalem as well.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.827208
 
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And Jordan is considered “moderate.”


Jordan is moderate. I know some people who work at the State Department there. Jordan is as moderate as some muslim parts of LA or New York.

Muslim people were told to stay in their homes after 9-11 (and the more recent travel bans). Does that mean America isn't a moderate country or does it just show prudence after a major socio-political development?

Think like an adult, dude.
 
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Israel attacked because the Arabs were planning a new invasion.

Was the initial attempt at genocide by the Arabs against international law? Why does only Israel have to obey the worlds most useless law (which the US breaks every day btw)?

The only attempted genocide of Jews was by white Christian Europeans in WW2. There was no plan by the Arabs to invade in '67, this has been confirmed even by Israeli historians, so stop spreading Zionist propaganda.

If international law doesn't matter then why were wingnuts crying about wmd's in Iraq, or Iran's supposed nuclear program?
 
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This is a very valid Tweet in support of Donald's decision (though one could argue that previous presidents didn't "fail to deliver" so much as make a calculated decision to stay out of it). However, it was really jarring to go from a string of relatively eloquent speakers to Donald, who almost seemed to be slurring his words in the first part of his vid.
 
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Philippine Interested in Moving Embassies to Jerusalem

1851906233.jpg


Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte expressed interest in moving his country's embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, Channel 1 news reported on Wednesday, a day after U.S. President Donald Trump announced his intention to relocate the U.S. embassy.

According to the report, the Czech Republic expressed interest in moving their embassy to Jerusalem as well.
read more: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.827208

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.827208

Prestigous company. The best.
 
That was the pivotal moment when everything went downhill, and the so-called "Two-State Solution" became a political slogan instead of a goal.

It is my opinion that none of the Palestinian leaders who showed up to the negotiation table after Sadat ever came with the intention of securing a deal, no matter how much concessions are offered. I doubt anyone here who actually followed the baffling result of the 2000 Camp David Summit would come to any other conclusion.

Keep the status quo and at least they are allowed to live by their own extremist factions.

It was a unfortunate pivotal event that set the tone for everything since.
It's not unlike what good things were possible during the Arab spring that got highjacked by the hardliners. The world could potentially look completely different right now otherwise.

Went from this to what's happening now.
130729140854-06-middle-east-peace-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg


Photos: Defining moments in Middle East peace talks
Defining moments in Middle East peace talks – Every president in the past 50 years has tried to broker peace in the Middle East, including when President Jimmy Carter ushered the historic Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty between Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin on March 26, 1979. "

Then you have this famous moment.
2000 peace talks, - Ehud Barak's unprecedented offer and Yasser Arafat's uncompromising "no".
Every time someone tries to blame America for 911 to some degree I point out them killing Sadat for doing the right thing. Can't fight anti American fundamentalism though.
 
Jerusalem is the centre of Jewish thought, culture and the holiest place on earth for them.

If Jews dont have a claim to Jerusalem they dont have a claim to anything.
 
It was a unfortunate pivotal event that set the tone for everything since.
It's not unlike what good things were possible during the Arab spring that got highjacked by the hardliners. The world could potentially look completely different right now otherwise.

Went from this to what's happening now.
130729140854-06-middle-east-peace-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg


Photos: Defining moments in Middle East peace talks
Defining moments in Middle East peace talks – Every president in the past 50 years has tried to broker peace in the Middle East, including when President Jimmy Carter ushered the historic Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty between Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin on March 26, 1979. "

Then you have this famous moment.
2000 peace talks, - Ehud Barak's unprecedented offer and Yasser Arafat's uncompromising "no".
Every time someone tries to blame America for 911 to some degree I point out them killing Sadat for doing the right thing. Can't fight anti American fundamentalism though.

Hamas is notorious for stirring shit up right before each and every round of Fatah-Israel negotiation as well, for the sole purpose of derailing any chance of peace.

Ofcourse, each missile barrage from Gaza on the eve of each U.S-brokered summit just give validity to the Israeli hardliners' claim that "See?? The Palestinians don't actually wants peace!!".

If there wasn't a war-mongering Arabs League, the State of Israel and the State of Palestine would be living next to each other in harmony right now, with Jerusalem remains a neutral international zone belonging to no one, like the U.N mandated.

If it wasn't for extremists like Hamas, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (created entirely by their hostile Arabs neighbors) would have been resolved decades ago.

That is why I don't waste my time debating with clueless millenial hipsters in the WR who think the Jews are the agressors and the Arabs are the victims in this idiotic conflict.

When you play stupid-ass games, know that a stupid-ass prize is the best thing you could possibly win.
 
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Trump's Jerusalem plan signals to Palestinians — the less you give up, the more you lose
Oren Dorell, USA TODAY | Dec. 6, 2017

636481698404959990-EPA-USA-TRUMP-JERUSALEM.1.jpg

Vice President Pence watches as President Trump sign his proclamation about his decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and his plan to relocate the U.S. Embassy to that city, in the Diplomatic Room of the White House in Washington, on Dec. 6, 2017.

President Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital sends a stark message that Palestinians should abandon their all-or-nothing demands in peace talks and applies subtle pressure on the Jewish state to make concessions, analysts said Wednesday.

Trump's message to Palestinians in his speech can be summed up as the less you concede, the more you lose, said Eugene Kontorovich, head of international law at the Kohelet Policy Forum in Jerusalem who testified before Congress in November.

“The Palestinians have learned that by saying ‘no’ they can always get something better next time,” Kontorovich said. “They have to learn that if they say no, next time they won’t get the same offer.”

The announcement fulfills the president’s campaign pledge to improve U.S. relations with Israel and move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, said Jonathan Schanzer, senior vice president at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

“A strong Israel secure in its alliance with the United States will be more willing to take chances for peace,” Schanzer said. “It will be interesting to watch in the weeks and months ahead whether the Trump administration makes requests of the Israelis on other issues.”

Israel regards Jerusalem as its capital, but the international community says the city's status should be determined through peace talks. Palestinians seek East Jerusalem as the capital of a future, independent state. Israel captured East Jerusalem in 1967 and later annexed it.

Palestinians strongly rejected the president's move, saying it shows the U.S. sides with Israel and can no longer play the role of peace broker.

"It’s over," said Mustafa Barghouti, a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization's Central Council. Trump's announcement "aborted his peace process before it was born."

Palestinians will fight back by seeking support from the United Nations, the International Criminal Court and other world bodies to isolate and weaken Israel, Barghouti said.

If Trump wanted to be fair to both sides, he would have said the Palestinians should have their capital in East Jerusalem as well, he said.

Saudis are also condemning Trump's decision, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's Royal Court said in a statement Wednesday.

"The Government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia had previously warned of the serious consequences of such an irresponsible and unwarranted step," the statement said. "The Kingdom expresses its denunciation and deep regret that the administration has taken this step, as it represents a great bias against the historic and permanent rights of the Palestinian people in Jerusalem . . . The Government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia hopes that the U.S administration will reverse this action."

Trump’s announcement, which accompanied instructions to prepare for a lengthy move of the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to the contested city, gives Israel something it's long wanted.

Trump said his decision reflected reality that Jerusalem is the seat of Israel’s government, its supreme court, parliament and home to its prime minister and ceremonial president. But he clarified the United States is not taking a stand on key issues to be resolved in peace negotiations.

636481703390315904-AP-Palestinians-Trump-Jerusalem.jpg

A protester holds torn representations of American and Israeli flags during a protest at the Unknown Soldier Square in Gaza City on Dec. 6, 2017


“We are not taking a position of any final status issues, including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem or the resolution of contested borders," Trump said. He also said the U.S. would support establishing a separate Palestinian state "if agreed to by both sides."

Trump named his son-in-law and adviser Jared Kushner to work on peace between the Israelis and Palestinians, with a mandate to find new solutions to a problem that has confounded U.S. presidents for decades. Few details have been publicly released about their progress.

Despite numerous wars, terrorism attacks and violent uprisings, successive peace negotiations have failed, often followed by more violence.

In addition, Israel built more settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, and erected a security barrier that cuts across land Palestinians want for a future nation.

Barghouti scoffed at the notion that Israeli leaders will see Trump's action on Jerusalem as a signal to make concessions.

"No, it just made them more arrogant," he said. "Now they feel they have a full green light from the president of the United States to do what they want."

But the Palestinians will launch pressure of their own, without turning to violence, he said. "We will accomplish the recognition of Palestine as an occupied state and struggle as long as it takes to get freedom from the Israeli occupation. Times will change."

Kontorovich said the White House will not be locked into past negotiations that failed to produce peace.

The new approach is to send the message that “the Palestinians should not assume that Israel’s last offer will always be the floor or minimum for the next round of negotiations,” Kontorovich said. “The narrative for the Palestinians is time is not on your side.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...m-decision-israel-and-palestinians/928032001/
 
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I need someone to explain this to me as I am not that knowledgeable on all of this.

But it seems like we have given Palestine some pretty damn good deals and they have walked away everytime and are demanding full control of Jerusalem etc. And now after allowing them to walk away from the deal for decades we finally said fuck them and just gave it to Israel?
 
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