Arab-Israeli Conflict, v2: What the UN Jerusalem vote mean for Israel, the U.S, and Palestine

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Hamas is notorious for stirring shit up right before each and every round of Fatah-Israel negotiation as well, for the sole purpose of derailing any chance of peace.

Ofcourse, each missile barrage from Gaza on the eve of each U.S-brokered summit just give validity to the Israeli hardliners' claim that "See?? The Palestinians don't actually wants peace!!".

If there wasn't a war-mongering Arabs League, the State of Israel and the State of Palestine would be living next to each other in harmony right now, with Jerusalem remains a neutral international zone belonging to no one, like the U.N mandated.

If it wasn't for extremists like Hamas, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (created entirely by their hostile Arabs neighbors) would have been resolved decades ago.

That is why I don't waste my time debating with clueless millenial hipsters in the WR who think the Jews are the agressors and the Arabs are the victims in this idiotic conflict.

When you play stupid-ass games, know that a supid-ass prize is the best thing you could possibly win.
Hamas is notorious for stirring shit up right before each and every round of Fatah-Israel negotiation as well, for the sole purpose of derailing any chance of peace.

Ofcourse, each missile barrage from Gaza on the eve of each U.S-brokered summit just give validity to the Israeli hardliners' claim that "See?? The Palestinians don't actually wants peace!!".

If there wasn't a war-mongering Arabs League, the State of Israel and the State of Palestine would be living next to each other in harmony right now, with Jerusalem remains a neutral international zone belonging to no one, like the U.N mandated.

If it wasn't for extremists like Hamas, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (created entirely by their hostile Arabs neighbors) would have been resolved decades ago.

That is why I don't waste my time debating with clueless millenial hipsters in the WR who think the Jews are the agressors and the Arabs are the victims in this idiotic conflict.

When you play stupid-ass games, know that a supid-ass prize is the best thing you could possibly win.

It brings a whole new definition to a convoluted cluster f...

Then there's the hipsters that bring a whole nother level of frustration to this that go along with the latest zeitgeist no matter what it is that's the next cool kid thing to believe. "New" atheist, no gender, everyone's a racist nazi, bla bla bla.
I try to quit debating any form of fundamentalism but it's like a bad addiction sometimes.
Is what it is I guess.
 
What an idiot. I am certain al-Qaeda will be grateful for this decision and won't thank Mr. Trump enough for this gift. It also unites Arabs to Iran's way of thinking that there can be no compromise with USA just when US/Israel/Saudi policy is trying isolate Iran.

Fueling terror and bad Geo-polttics all in one dumb move.
 
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Taiwan acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Dec 08, 2017

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Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Andrew Lee speaks at the ministry in Taipei yesterday.

Taiwan does not intend to move its representative office in Israel from Tel Aviv, although it acknowledges Jerusalem as the capital, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) said yesterday.

The ministry is keeping a close watch on developments in the wake of US President Donald Trump’s announcement on Wednesday that the US now formally recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and plans to relocate its embassy there, ministry spokesman Andrew Lee (李憲章) told a regular media briefing.

The ministry’s Web site lists Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, he said

“We acknowledge Jerusalem as Israel’s capital,” he said. “However, at present, we are not considering moving Taiwan’s representative office from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.”

Meanwhile, the ministry is calling on Israel and the Palestinian territories to settle their conflict by peaceful means and seek a mutually acceptable peace proposal that would serve the best interests of their people, Lee said.

The Palestinian National Authority has declared “three days of rage,” from Wednesday until today, during which protests are expected to be held in Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories, Lee said, adding that Taiwanese traveling or doing business there are advised to avoid crowded places.

The ministry has instructed the Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Tel Aviv and other offices to issue advisories to nationals abroad to raise awareness of the situation, Lee said.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/photo/2017/12/08/2008154944
 
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Jordan is moderate. I know some people who work at the State Department there. Jordan is as moderate as some muslim parts of LA or New York.

Muslim people were told to stay in their homes after 9-11 (and the more recent travel bans). Does that mean America isn't a moderate country or does it just show prudence after a major socio-political development?

Think like an adult, dude.

You do know that trump is not going to be crashing planes into Jerusalem, right?
 
I need someone to explain this to me as I am not that knowledgeable on all of this.

But it seems like we have given Palestine some pretty damn good deals and they have walked away everytime and are demanding full control of Jerusalem etc. And now after allowing them to walk away from the deal for decades we finally said fuck them and just gave it to Israel?

The little children got a much-needed spanking to bring them back to reality, that's what's happening.

If the media stops their ventilating, they would realize it too.

This opinion piece is exactly what I'm thinking about this new development, and something tells me people wouldn't be dicking around in the next Israel/Palestine Peace Summit with Trump, like they did with Clinton, Bush, and Obama, now that they knows full well Trump is fully capable of doing all the crazy things previous Presidents wouldn't dare to do if they pisses him off with their childish games:

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Trump Is Right: Jerusalem Is Israel’s Capital — But It Is A Divided One.
Aaron Bondar | December 6, 2017

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Jerusalem is the capital of the state of Israel.

Israelis know this; Palestinians know it. Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas and the Arab world know it.

And yet an illusion is maintained, for the sake of diplomatic correctness, that Jerusalem is not yet the capital of the Jewish state, though it is obvious that it is.

It is generally acknowledged among the analytic class that to affirm what is obvious would bring great danger to a region which is already in great danger, or would put a stop to a peace process which is not yet in progress. Whatever the reason, the illusion is maintained.

This is not the only illusion—or delusion, depending on your level of commitment to reality— which shrouds the city of Jerusalem in a mirage. There is also a delusion which exists in the minds of some who support Israel that Jerusalem is not only the capital of Israel—which it surely is— but that it is the “undivided” capital, which it surely is not.

Every year, on Yom Yerushalayim, the holiday marking the conquest of the Eastern part of the city by Israeli forces in 1967, marchers descend upon the streets of the capital city and celebrate the occasion. Some purposefully march through Arab neighborhoods in ritualistic fashion, as if to convince themselves. Surely, if they say the city is unified, it must be so.

Thus the illusion is maintained. An Israeli teacher of mine once said that observers of the march mistake the participants’ assertiveness for pride, when it is more like a product of insecurity. After all, in which other unified capital city is it necessary to repeat to oneself, year after year, that it is unified—and under armed guard, no less?

Jerusalem is not the only object of these convenient illusions and delusions. They are to be found all over the state of Israel and all over the territories. It is not absurd to say that for peace to be possible, these illusions must be dispelled and delusions shattered.

President Trump has come under much criticism for his recognition of the obvious—that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. If he had said it was the undivided capital, he would certainly deserve the opprobrium for subscribing to the same delusion to which others have fallen prey even while shattering another.

But he made explicitly clear in his statement that his recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel should not be received as the United States “taking a position [on] any final status issues—including the specific boundary of Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem,” insinuating that there may in fact be a boundary which divides Jerusalem from the rest of the territories, and perhaps that boundary runs down the city.

Most analysts of the region — in rising alarm and panic — have suggested that moving the embassy or recognizing the capital of Israel was a chip to play, an inducement—and Trump just gave it away for free. But they have it wrong. In the context of negotiations, US recognition of Israel’s capital, in any form, is meaningless—either Israel and the Palestinians sign a deal, in which case Jerusalem becomes Israel’s divided capital in a realistic final settlement, or they don’t, and the U.S. recognition changes nothing. No—the real leverage comes with recognition outside the context of negotiations.

Think; President Trump has just become the first American president since the birth of the state of Israel to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the Jewish state—a gesture that has become imbued with meaning not because the American president gets to decide where Israel’s capital is but because, as is characteristic of this conflict, many people have invested much in the illusion that he can. For better or worse, Trump’s predecessors’ refusals to do so has made Trump’s recognition meaningful. Can Netanyahu claim, now, that the first American president to recognize Israel’s capital is acting in bad faith? That no longer plays. It cannot.

As President Trump said in his statement, the record of peace is not good. President Obama, for all his hope, for all his support from journalists and common-sense analysts, left the Palestinians in the worst bargaining position they’ve ever had; not because of his policies regarding negotiations, but because of his general strategy in Middle East.

After the Iran Deal and the Syrian civil war, the hardening of the Sunni states against Iranian hegemony has left the Palestinians with few allies and a hostile and restless region with bigger fish to fry; a region coming off a civil war which has created a refugee problem that deflection to Israel can’t solve. But it has also created a moment where is of the essence—where the pressure is rising; enough pressure, maybe, to do impossible, wondrous things. Palestinians have earned few victories, and the window of opportunity is quickly becoming a narrow aperture.

Do I trust President Trump, with the Arab states, to give Palestinians a fair chance at a deal they can live with? Perhaps not—but if we have begun dispensing with our illusions, maybe we can move toward dispelling others; including the illusion that the status quo in the West Bank can continue indefinitely, a delusion which has captured the imaginations of too many.

I will admit that I do not have confidence in this administration to succeed where others have failed. But the truth is that others have failed. The moment is here, for better or worse, and it is such that there is reason—perhaps irresponsibly— to hope.

https://forward.com/scribe/389377/t...m-is-israels-capital-but-it-is-a-divided-one/
 
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It is my opinion that none of the Palestinian leaders who showed up to the negotiation table after Sadat ever came with the intention of securing a deal, no matter how much concessions are offered. I doubt anyone here who actually followed the baffling result of the 2000 Camp David Summit would come to any other conclusion.

The same is true for all Israeli leaders post-Rabin.
 
now all the tel aviv jews have to drive to jerusalem for their visa needs. inconvenient af
 
I still dont see what is the big deal in all of this. Israel has a right to make any city in its territory its capital.
 
People are going to die for this very brave presidential decision
Jews have been killed and displaced from Jerusalem for ages so I think they will manage, even though every loss of life is tragic.
 
Is that supposed to be some kind of defense of this decision? If so, it's a poor one.
No, not a defense, just that the Jewish people nowadays will not be defeated nor conquered.

Trump did what Obama thought was right (at least in 2008) and that takes some balls.
 
People are going to die for this very brave presidential decision
Every political decision regarding the Middle East has the potential to lead to loss of life given the actors involved. If that is the deciding factor in whether a foreign relations decision is made then America truly needs to close up shop around the world and refrain from involving ourselves in the affairs of other nations.

You either accept that the choices we make with regard to foreign nations and their politics can always potentially led to a loss of lives or you leave the world stage and go huddle within the comfort of your borders.
 
Every political decision regarding the Middle East has the potential to lead to loss of life given the actors involved. If that is the deciding factor in whether a foreign relations decision is made then America truly needs to close up shop around the world and refrain from involving ourselves in the affairs of other nations.

You either accept that the choices we make with regard to foreign nations and their politics can always potentially led to a loss of lives or you leave the world stage and go huddle within the comfort of your borders.
This choice didn't have to be made.
 
That is why I don't waste my time debating with clueless millenial hipsters in the WR who think the Jews are the agressors and the Arabs are the victims in this idiotic conflict.

When you play stupid-ass games, know that a stupid-ass prize is the best thing you could possibly win.
The Palestinians have had bad leaders, no doubt, but that doesn't justify Israel's colonial project in Palestine.
 
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