Locked STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI v.3 (Dragonlord's Initial Review)

[Tiny]

George Lucas is great for ideas and vision, and bless his heart for the OT, but he needs other, very talented people at the reins. I don't think it's a coincidence that the two best movies of them all - the original and TESB - are the ones he had the least control over.

Watch this. The magic was in his wife's editing. George was always a shitty director.

 

[deviake]

You can make it dark with interesting characters as well. Rogue One had no interesting charters to speak of outside the blind Asian guy. Who's backstory was 3 seconds long

For sure. I didn't even think the characters needed arcs, just that we needed to know more them and have them fleshed out a bit. I'm okay with not every character being super charismatic and fitting a certain role. I liked all of them, I just didn't think they were built up enough. If they would have built the characters up better, killed the callbacks, taken out the mind reading monster, and edited it better, I think it'd be a classic.

Also, if any SW movie needed a title crawl at the beginning, it was Rogue One. Rogue One feels like an unfinished product.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

- underwhelming answers to questions from TFA.

- underwhelming use of Luke. (We've waited 30 years to be reunited with our childhood hero only to watch him mope on an island and then fade away because of reasons)

- A mysterious, and powerful villan with interesting scars that tease of a great back story...wasted without any answers. And nor would I care who he was now anyways.

- A ridiculous plot about gas and the world's slowest chase scene in sci fi history.

- A boring and needlessly lengthy plot on a casino world which felt like it belonged in the prequels.

- Merchadise thrown into my face that absolutely served no purpose to the plot. (at least the ewoks DID something)

- This movie has left me with very little ambition or drive to see the 9th installment.

- There are now more bad Star Wars movies then good.

I don't disagree with any of that but I also think most would be forgiven if they delved into the force and Luke taught this young girl.

None of that happened. All that time on Ach To and not really much came from it all. Some force texting between Rey and Kylo.

The truth is the rey/Kylo/Luke storyline was the best part of the movie. They should've kept that dynamic but improved every place else.

I loved Luke in this movie but I hated how he was handled. Mark did a very fine job and he kept me interested in what was gonna happen next. Unfortunately nothing redeeming happened to Luke

 

[deviake]

Watch this. The magic was in his wife's editing. George was always a shitty director.

Ooh, thank you for posting this! I've gotta go to sleep soon but I'm gonna check it out tomorrow.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

For sure. I didn't even think the characters needed arcs, just that we needed to know more them and have them fleshed out a bit. I'm okay with not every character being super charismatic and fitting a certain role. I liked all of them, I just didn't think they were built up enough. If they would have built the characters up better, killed the callbacks, taken out the mind reading monster, and edited it better, I think it'd be a classic.

Also, if any SW movie needed a title crawl at the beginning, it was Rogue One. Rogue One feels like an unfinished product.

I agree, but those are a lot of changes to fix. Lol

good characters are everything, strong stories about them and how they became what they are in the present. People will forgive a lot if they get good writing and great characters.

 

[RollSonnenRoll]

I honestly don't know how you create tension with Kylo Ren as your villain. He got overpowered by a Force Rookie in TFA, then gets outsmarted by a Force Hologram. He doesn't feel like a threat , he is am impulsive Mad Dog that is too easily baited.

I was ok with him being that way in TFA. He was inexperienced and too young for his position. I felt like they were going the right way with him. The Force scenes with him and Rey were some of my favorite scenes. Then the big scene with Snoke I thought would be the turning point torwards a man ready to be the leader that even Vader wasn’t. Felt like he was there with his speech to Rey. Then it gets to the big climax and he’s howling and screaming like a madman and then was baited so easily by Luke with that obvious line about his father. I genuinely don’t know where we go from here with him because I’m feeling the same way at the end now as at the end of TFA. “He just needs more training and maturity and this dude will be a real villain.” Zero character development in 2 1/2 hours

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

I honestly don't know how you create tension with Kylo Ren as your villain. He got overpowered by a Force Rookie in TFA, then gets outsmarted by a Force Hologram. He doesn't feel like a threat , he is am impulsive Mad Dog that is too easily baited.

He was hands down the best part of this movie though.

I think his character is one of the only bright spots of this new trilogy. I love how he's an arrogant, wanna be brat with raw intensity.

He was great in this movie and Driver is a very good actor and displays emotion really well

 

[deviake]

I agree, but those are a lot of changes to fix. Lol

good characters are everything, strong stories about them and how they became what they are in the present. People will forgive a lot if they get good writing and great characters.

Haha yeah, that's true. Rogue One is frustrating to me because it's so close but so far from being great. In my opinion, the framework is there for it to be great, it's just missing a couple big pieces, whereas I have fundamental problems with almost everything about the prequels and VII & VIII. With Rogue One, I really only have two big issues with it (character dev and editing), but the story and the rest I'm on board with.

For me and my personal preferences, it's the most rewatchable of any of the SW movies since the OT. I find its flaws much more forgivable and less egregious than the other new ones.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Haha yeah, that's true. Rogue One is frustrating to me because it's so close but so far from being great. In my opinion, the framework is there for it to be great, it's just missing a couple big pieces, whereas I have fundamental problems with almost everything about the prequels and VII & VIII. With Rogue One, I really only have two big issues with it (character dev and editing), but the story and the rest I'm on board with.

For me and my personal preferences, it's the most rewatchable of any of the SW movies since the OT. I find its flaws much more forgivable and less egregious than the other new ones.

I feel the same way about rogue one.

You know the cast is gonna be killed but even with that known you still want to hope they aren't. That's what good characters get you. Those feelings.

I don't think you were that broken up when they all died.

 

[RollSonnenRoll]

He was hands down the best part of this movie though.

I think his character is one of the only bright spots of this new trilogy. I love how he's an arrogant, wanna be brat with raw intensity.

He was great in this movie and Driver is a very good actor and displays emotion really well

A less talented actor would make him unbearable to watch. Best rage yelling this side of prime Pacino. Even with his shortcomings, I consider Kylo to be the lifeblood of both movies so far and most of the time I’m just waiting for him to show back up

 

[Adamant]

Ray goes evil, Ren turns back to good. Then the third they try and turn Rey back.

This would have been so awesome.

 

[RollSonnenRoll]

I thought they will have sex in this movie. I really felt it coming. Actually, I think Rey, and Finn are going to have sex soon and lots of it.

I still think Rey and Kylo are gonna get it on at some point

 

[moreorless87]

You can make it dark with interesting characters as well. Rogue One had no interesting charters to speak of outside the blind Asian guy. Who's backstory was 3 seconds long

Depends what you mean by "Interesting" for me, does it mean larger than life cartoonish characters with special powers throwing out one liners constantly? Granted Marvel has used that style effectively but really its not what Starwars strengths have been.

A think a big problem here is that peoples attachment to the originals was generally built up across many years growing up before definite opinions were formed. It means people underplay the subtley and realism of the characters in ESB especially because they've picked up on it across many years whilsr Rogue One was expected to get the same feeling on the back of one viewing after which people opinions would be set in stone on the net forever more.

That's not to say films can't often be effectively judged on first viewing but in this case criticism of "it was boring" to me seem like there relevant to the above. Personally I found my opinion of the film has definitely improved across several viewings, first time around I was more of the "Robot and the blind guy were the best things in it" but actually I find the lead characters and the setting are now really its main strengths.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Depends what you mean by "Interesting" for me, does it mean larger than life cartoonish characters with special powers throwing out one liners constantly? Granted Marvel has used that style effectively but really its not what Starwars strengths have been.

A think a big problem here is that peoples attachment to the originals was generally built up across many years growing up before definite opinions were formed. It means people underplay the subtley and realism of the characters in ESB especially because they've picked up on it across many years whilsr Rogue One was expected to get the same feeling on the back of one viewing after which people opinions would be set in stone on the net forever more.

That's not to say films can't often be effectively judged on first viewing but in this case criticism of "it was boring" to me seem like there relevant to the above. Personally I found my opinion of the film has definitely improved across several viewings, first time around I was more of the "Robot and the blind guy were the best things in it" but actually I find the lead characters and the setting are now really its main strengths.

Jyn Erso needed more depth. Show a bit more backstory, some actual attachment to her father. Rather than the 2 minutes they were on screen together.

Even Saw Gerrera (who's a rebel legend, even having his legacy cemented in new canon) should've had more exposition and story. No reason they couldn't have written him on Jyns' Team.


The characters needed work on Rogue one. The movie could've been damn good if they did those things.

No one cares if a movie is 3 hours long, especially not with strong characters engrossing you in their story. Since not everything is action, action, cgi, cgi, charcter development is a must. People say Rogue One was slow for the majority of its run time. Reason being weak characters. They could've done the same damn things and expanded the characters with detailed writing and no one would've been bored.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

A less talented actor would make him unbearable to watch. Best rage yelling this side of prime Pacino. Even with his shortcomings, I consider Kylo to be the lifeblood of both movies so far and most of the time I’m just waiting for him to show back up

I couldn't agree more.

I also love him in the mask and how his voice sounds. The entire costume is so immature and shows how lost he truly is. He's really just a big wannabe

There are so many bright spots in this movie but how it all comes together was silly.

 

[Bob Gray]

I saw The Last Jedi the other night and I'll catch a matinee later today. After that I'll post my review.

But to understand why the sequel trilogy is a failure already, you've gotta go back to the critical error of turning down George Lucas's trilogy story treatment.

You wanna talk about hubris? That was the height. I rest that on Kathleen Kennedy more than anyone. Hearing that Mark Hamill holds the same opinion I think is telling.

This coupled with the creative team put in place behind Episode 7 was the beginning of the end. Michael Arndt, the original screen writer, needed at least a year and a half to fully write the script. Disney wanted it in 6 months, and so he was let go.

JJ Abrams and the hack Lawrence Kasdan (you read that right) proceeded to retain Arndt's first act and bullshit their way through the rest of the movie, beginning with the Rathtar garbage and the ill-conceived Starkiller Base.

This was made even more painful by how obvious it was that they didn't have anything remotely interesting up their sleeves. Thus you get Snoke, a Palpatine redux, and basically the same location shooting as the first Star Wars.

My point is, if they were so devoid of ideas why not work off what Lucas had? I think fans are beginning to realize what we missed out on. He isn't the greatest director, but Lucas has vision and creativity down pat. Had they utilized this with a capable screen writer and production crew, at that point getting copycats like Abrams is fine. But you remove the visionary completely, and you're left with The Force Awakens.

They tripped out the gate and now The Last Jedi appears to be an ineffective attempt at damage control. The people who are saying it makes The Force Awakens seem better should stop and think about that sentiment for awhile. The Force Awakens was bad! Disney has cheapened Star Wars beyond even the supposedly terrible Prequel Trilogy, which at least had an iota of originality. This was there last chance, I don't care about Episode IX or even Star Wars anymore. Bring on the Avatar sequels.

Except Force Awakens was a hit with fans, critics and the box office. "Damage control"? When youre movie is a hit on every level? What are you talking about?

TLJ was very underwhelming though. But pretty much everythng youre saying about TFA is BS. What was Lucas' "big ideas"?

 

[mmafreedom]

Right now off the top of my head, here's how they could have flipped this whole disaster around..

Way back in The force awakens Finn shows the slightest amount of force potential. That's why he's able to go toe to toe with Kylo for a little bit (which was a big frustration of mine when I first saw it).

In the beginning of TLJ, when Leia is blown into space that is the end for her, goodbye Carrie it has been an honor.
After the Snoke scene in TLJ, Rey turns and Joins Kylo as his 'bride' and they try to rule the galaxy together. They chase down the resistance and track them to that planet where the final conflict takes place. Poe is the leader of the resistance at this point (forget that stupid purple hair lady), and Finn is there too. They're setting up their defenses when all of a sudden Luke Skywalker enters the scene. People are in shock as they've heard of his legend and he tells them it will all be ok. He goes outside to confront Kylo and the walkers, everything carries on as per usual. He gives up the gimmick and shows his force projection, but instead he doesn't die. Finn, Poe and everyone else escape.

In the final installment, Luke reluctantly trains Finn along with the help of Force ghosts including, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin.
Eventually Finn and Luke go to confront the new supreme leaders, Rey and Kylo An epic battle ensues and eventually Finn is thrown back by a force push from Rey and taken out momentarily, akin to Obi-Wan when he and Anakin are fighting Dooku in the opening sequence of Revenge of the sith on the spaceship.
Luke ends up fighting Rey and Kylo at the same time and a massive fucking battle kicks off, he holds his own but is eventually out struck and Rey and Kylo BOTH stab him at the same time. He looks at the two of them, says that same line he said in TLJ "I will be with you until the end" and turns into a force ghost.
Finn wakes up and finds his new master is dead, his love (Rey) has turned to the dark side, and Kylo is the man who stole everything from him (his master, his love, and his life since he was a child). He channels the dark side like Luke does in ROTJ and defeats both Kylo and Rey at the same time, knocking Rey out cold, and having Kylo on his knees ready to deliver the killing blow. Only to turn back to the light as he's about to strike and decide it's not worth it. Both Rey and Kylo get locked up now Finn is the leader of the next generation of Jedi.

Boom, open up next trilogy.

 

[Bob Gray]

I feel like people are loving it just BECAUSE it was “different”

Rian could’ve done things “different” and still made a great Star Wars film but instead we got alien milking, spear fishing, retarded Hux, weak dialogue, boring pointless subplots, etc...

Ugh sorry I’m just disappointed as hell. There were definitely some good parts but overall just... man. I understand people liking it as well but some of the shit I’ve been reading in its defense is just laughable. Someone actually tried saying that Rian did something right by making a film that’s being hated... like what?

Mirrors a lot of my own thoughts. I dont have much of a problem with where the characters end up or with their resolutions, per se. But The Adventures of Finn and Margaret Cho took up way too much goddamn time. The whole casino planet was just bad.

And why THE FUCK am I watching a purple headed Laura Dern and some nameless chick on the ship during the bombing run get a death scene but ADMIRAL FUCKING ACKBAR basically dies off screen. The fuck is this?

The attempts at humor mostly fell flat for me. Much of problem was shit seemingly happening randomly just because. Like, the reveal that Luke was an astral projection was dope as fuck. Easily one of the best things about the movie and I was cheering.

Then he dies. Like....what? Apparently if you "force" too hard, you die? Or something? Random shit like that makes unable to enjoy the destination the story has taken me. luke becoming one with the force is not only expected but is a perfect resolution for his character in this movie. He found balance once again. Except it was so random and disjointed with what I was watching that it made little sense. So now the scene thats supposed to make me misty eyed just gives me a wtf face.

This was my problem with the movie overall, I think. Not in Johnsons desire to subvert expectations as much as the disjointed storytelling intertwined with flat humour and poor dialogue made me unable to accept what I was watching.

Floating Leia was terrible.

 

[Da Speeit]

That movie was fucking horrible and if you disagree, you're a fucking idiot. You're entitled to be one, it's okay, but fuck me that movie jumped out of the realm of "Decent" when Leia flys back in the ship like Neo in Matrix Revolutions and idc if that's a spoiler you fuck right off.

Fuck that movie was bad.

 

[ICHEERTHEBULL]

I didnt find it exceptionally bad but I'd be hesitant to call it good. Far far too long. The majority of it seemed like filler to me