Who was better, Sugar Ray Leonard or Roy Jones Jr?

proncley said:
Lol

Pretty sure that a high pace and timing were important for Ali and SRL too. Even for Floyd.
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Yeah but I haven’t seen Floyd get embarrassed. I saw Ali fight for too long and take too much punishment to the head when he was younger (Dundee’s words not mine) and cocaine isn’t part of a balanced training program in the case of ray.
 
Again you're trying to move the discussion into something entirely else. I'd like to smack you with a lead pipe at the back of your head.

If you do your research you'll find out that Ali competed much more than Frazier, Norton and Foreman...didn't take enough rest in between fights in order to get his brain the needed recovery...sparred throughtout the entire year instead of plan your training camps and sparring professionally like todays heavyweights do and therefore took severe brain damage.
 
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proncley said:
Again you're trying to move the discussion into something entirely else. I'd like to smack you with a lead pipe at the back of your head.

If you do your research you'll find out that Ali competed much more than Frazier, Norton and Ali...didn't take enough rest in between fights in order to get his brain the needed recovery...sparred throughtout the entire year instead of plan your training camps and sparring professionally like todays heavyweights do and therefore took severe brain damage.
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Sorry I thought hausers book where he had interviewed people close to Ali was a reasonable starting point for research, especially when he directly quotes Dundee. As in Angelo. Not the city in Scotland.

Obviously you must have had better sources for your research.
 
proncley said:
This is the typical nonsense.
Roy's technique was ok. What exactly do you mean by technique? Punching technique ? Footwork?

Its just absurd to degrade him to pure physical ability and at the same time talk about fantasy match ups between him and Ezzard Charles, Bob Foster, Andre Ward, etc.


You couldn't have used two worse examples as a contrast. What did Leonard do once he reached his early 30s? Let me give a hint: Floyd Mayweather he was not.
Roy captured the heavyweight title and even into his mid 30s he was competitive with Calzaghe.

Ali, also not a great example to get your point across.

I could go on and on with examples of great boxers who got worse as they got older.

Not sure what your point was anyway. That Roy Jones Jr is not an ATG? That he had a different style than Jack Johnson and Joe Gans?
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Leonard had to take time off because of a detached retina.
 
Sunfish said:
Why is Chong-Pal Park ranked 1 all time smw by ring in 1994?
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Because the people who used to run the ring were ignorant assholed who didnt have a fucking clue
 
treelo said:
Because the people who used to run the ring were ignorant assholed who didnt have a fucking clue
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I know that boxrec can be incomplete but his last smw title defense victory was against 4-2 polly pasireron. He wouldn’t even break the top 10 would he? Asian boxing guys, can anyone explain this one?
 
Sunfish said:
Yeah but I haven’t seen Floyd get embarrassed. I saw Ali fight for too long and take too much punishment to the head when he was younger (Dundee’s words not mine) and cocaine isn’t part of a balanced training program in the case of ray.
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ray talks a lot about the coke, i can't believe he was that heavy into it during the early 80's. It became public that he drank and coked in the early 90's when he was getting a divorce, his wife put it in the papers. He came out to apologize for being the phoney that he was. Problem for fighters is, they get addicted to the high of a fight, then, that's gone and they go nuts. Ray's wife said he was worst during his retirement in the early 80's but ray says he also spiralled into a depression after the camacho loss which lasted for several years during wich he used coke. He blames it on getting molested by that coach but we all got issues i don't know if I believe that had anything to do with it. I think his career being over (same as with any great fighter) was it. Ali had a hard time and went through depression after the holmes loss and then the berbick loss too.
 
Sunfish said:
Sorry I thought hausers book where he had interviewed people close to Ali was a reasonable starting point for research, especially when he directly quotes Dundee. As in Angelo. Not the city in Scotland.

Obviously you must have had better sources for your research.
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keep it going guys i could use the chuckles.
 
mozfonky said:
ray talks a lot about the coke, i can't believe he was that heavy into it during the early 80's. It became public that he drank and coked in the early 90's when he was getting a divorce, his wife put it in the papers. He came out to apologize for being the phoney that he was. Problem for fighters is, they get addicted to the high of a fight, then, that's gone and they go nuts. Ray's wife said he was worst during his retirement in the early 80's but ray says he also spiralled into a depression after the camacho loss which lasted for several years during wich he used coke. He blames it on getting molested by that coach but we all got issues i don't know if I believe that had anything to do with it. I think his career being over (same as with any great fighter) was it. Ali had a hard time and went through depression after the holmes loss and then the berbick loss too.
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The way he describes the molestation is strange... I’m guessing you’ve read the autobiography.

He wouldn’t be the first sportsman to lose his shit to addiction at the end of a career.
 
Sunfish said:
The way he describes the molestation is strange... I’m guessing you’ve read the autobiography.

He wouldn’t be the first sportsman to lose his shit to addiction at the end of a career.
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ya, it was strange, i really think he didn't tell us everything, i mean who the fuck is troubled by what amounts to a little groping? I think he might have went full casting couch on the old man and didn't want to say it for shame.
 
mozfonky said:
ya, it was strange, i really think he didn't tell us everything, i mean who the fuck is troubled by what amounts to a little groping? I think he might have went full casting couch on the old man and didn't want to say it for shame.
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That’s what I thought it sounded like.
 
I like how Jeff phrased the last question.

Changing it a bit and asking here: Which fight would you rather watch if they were on at the same time :

Ray Leonard vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr

or

Roy Jones Jr vs. Marvin Hagler
 
proncley said:
I like how Jeff phrased the last question.

Changing it a bit and asking here: Which fight would you rather watch if they were on at the same time :

Ray Leonard vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr

or

Roy Jones Jr vs. Marvin Hagler
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Leonard vs Mayweather because I don't know who wins. I think Roy wins a surprisingly easy fight against Hagler but maybe I just don't understand the Hagler love.
 
Ray Leonard was Greater.
Roy Jones Jr. was arguably better. In his prime, the way he beat everybody including two ATG's Toney and Hopkins, whilst also successfully carrying his strengths all the way to Heavyweight - he has a strong enough claim for being called 'the best ever'.
Ray Leonard has a stronger claim for being the best ever because of his wins over Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler but Jones Jr. still unquestionably has a claim.

Who do I think is better? Probably Jones Jr. because I've never seen someone look as good and dominant as him.
 
Sunfish said:
Sugar ray was better. Even as he slowed down his technique was still there.

Roy was unorthodox and once he wasn’t your physical superior didn’t show the same ability to grind out wins.
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Ray Leonard being better compared to Roy Jones when they are both in a past prime state aka slowed down' does not determine who is the better fighter.
When we say 'who was better', we think about them in their absolute primes. Having longevity doesn't make you the better...although it can add to your 'greatness'.
 
Leonard was more complete and had more intangibles. Jones Jr. was a bit more physically gifted. Overall, I'd take Leonard, but Jones Jr. at his peak would be extremely difficult to beat from 160-175.
 
How bout Ray, because he's not a juicer? Roy's talents were "enhanced".
Doubt SRL was on PEDS
 
Dr. Will said:
Ray Leonard being better compared to Roy Jones when they are both in a past prime state aka slowed down' does not determine who is the better fighter.
When we say 'who was better', we think about them in their absolute primes. Having longevity doesn't make you the better...although it can add to your 'greatness'.
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Erm, no it shows in adversity you have sound fundamentals to fall back on.

I don’t really care about fights like Jones vs green or ray vs Camacho.

I guess you’re using the royal we, and yeah I think sugar ray could beat Roy Jones.
 
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