Trump doesn't want immigrants from s***hole countries

[Greoric]

Again, that's not controversial right? When you vote, you're voting among an aggregate of issues... making voting patterns only informative in the aggregate i.e. Democrat, Republican, Green party, Libertarian, etc... unless you're going to do independent surveys.

 

[Greoric]

I didn't expect someone to, eh, posit that the west "invented ethics", yet here we are.

Regions all over the world had their own ethics, its just that only the West developed a universal standard for ethics. e.g. Deontology, Utilitarianism, etc.

There's significant ecological reasons why Europeans were the ones to do that... but I'm barred from discussing the topic.

 

[helltoupee]

It's not complicated. Collectively, westerners developed individually, and individually, everyone else developed collectively. Therefore we can't mix the two. R doesn't go into K dude.

This just seems like semantics to me. Why can't you mix the two? I would think a balance between individualism and collectivism is the most productive direction to go in. You can't run a successful company or country of pure individuals, otherwise nothing would get done. Likewise, progress would most likely stagnate without individual based egoism.

I have no idea what "R doesn't go into K dude" means.

 

[Greoric]

So what we've arrived at is that you can advocate for collectivist policies regardless of whether you are democrat or republican.

You seem to be insinuating that immigrants voting democrat are anti-ethical to western values, when in fact, the majority of Americans, or at least half, are democrats.

No, though I'm not especially surprised you've missed the nuance and went straight to a strawman.

 

[Greoric]

This just seems like semantics to me. Why can't you mix the two? I would think a balance between individualism and collectivism is the most productive direction to go in. You can't run a successful company or country of pure individuals, otherwise nothing would get done. Likewise, progress would most likely stagnate without individual based egoism.

I have no idea what "R doesn't go into K dude" means.

Maybe you shouldn't be trying to "run people" then?

 

[Limbo Pete]

Again, that's not controversial right? When you vote, you're voting among an aggregate of issues... making voting patterns only informative in the aggregate i.e. Democrat, Republican, Green party, Libertarian, etc... unless you're going to do independent surveys.

"Observe the voting patterns."
"That's vague."
"Exactly!"

 

[Greoric]

"Observe the voting patterns."
"That's vague."
"Exactly!"

Vague to specific policies if you're looking at the aggregate. But it's assumed if you're going to be voting D, then you want more and expanded government programs. i.e. maybe you want more funding to PP, or maybe you want extended unemployment insurance, or larger SNAP payouts, etc.

Get the point?

 

[ShadowRun]

Never expected this thread to shoot near 2,000 posts.

It’s real important that everyone knows Trump is a racist by word association

 

[Limbo Pete]

Vague to specific policies if you're looking at the aggregate. But it's assumed if you're going to be voting D, then you want more and expanded government programs. i.e. maybe you want more funding to PP, or maybe you want extended unemployment insurance, or larger SNAP payouts, etc.

Get the point?

Still seems a bit vague

 

[helltoupee]

No, though I'm not especially surprised you've missed the nuance and went straight to a strawman.

What's the strawman?

Throughout this thread your position has been that people from shit-hole countries are ruining this one because they hold values that are anti-ethical to our own, apparently because of "vague" voting patterns. I asked what those voting patterns were, and you insinuated it was because they vote democrat. Well, I got news for you. Half of the American population are democrats, which seems to fall in line with American "western values".

 

[Greoric]

Still seems a bit vague

 

[helltoupee]

Maybe you shouldn't be trying to "run people" then?

Run people? WTF does that mean?

 

[JonnyRingo84]

There are almost no liberals around today. Sam Harris is a liberal and he's regularly accused of being a white supremacist by leftists.

do you mean like, classical liberalism? why are you hating on liberals if there are no liberals?

Leftists see it that simplistically. They repeat that same line ad nauseam: 'Islam is a religion of peace'.

is this going back to the claim that there are no liberals? i know almost no one who says this shit. most people are in the "not all muslims" camp.

A violent religion, which is what Islam is, can never be interpreted in a peaceful way.

so why do so many people interpret it peacefully? historically and contemporarily.

The religion itself cannot be a 'religion of peace' because of its teachings. How hard is that to understand?

the claim isnt hard to understand at all. the evidence youre using to support the claim is.

 

[helltoupee]

Vague to specific policies if you're looking at the aggregate. But it's assumed if you're going to be voting D, then you want more and expanded government programs. i.e. maybe you want more funding to PP, or maybe you want extended unemployment insurance, or larger SNAP payouts, etc.

Get the point?

Is it assumed that if you vote R, you are necessarily for corporate welfare, military spending, no bid contracts, and land grants? Does this make both R's and D's anti-ethical to western values?

 

[Greoric]

What's the strawman?

Throughout this thread your position has been that people from shit-hole countries are ruining this one because they hold values that are anti-ethical to our own, apparently because of "vague" voting patterns. I asked what those voting patterns were, and you insinuated it was because they vote democrat. Well, I got news for you. Half of the American population are democrats, which seems to fall in line with American "western values".

I don't advocate for collectivist policies. Its just that if I'm going to be obligated to live under a government's laws presiding over a defined geographical area then I expect them to be enforced.

And saying someone's values aren't the same as yours, isn't commensurate with saying anything about either's superiority.... a shockingly ignorant conclusion.

It's just simply that people immigrating from cultures that respected collectivism over individualism, which necessarily is not miscible with our form of governance.

 

[Greoric]

Is it assumed that if you vote R, you are necessarily for corporate welfare, military spending, no bid contracts, and land grants? Does this make both R's and D's anti-ethical to western values?

Many could be, but for the majority of its voters you could probably assume they want more limited government (a western, and vastly white position).

 

[aitkenmike]

This just seems like semantics to me. Why can't you mix the two? I would think a balance between individualism and collectivism is the most productive direction to go in. You can't run a successful company or country of pure individuals, otherwise nothing would get done. Likewise, progress would most likely stagnate without individual based egoism.

I have no idea what "R doesn't go into K dude" means.

I was just having fun with Greoric's weird idea that only westerners can be individualistic. I find the whole concept of grouping entirely different cultures together and stating everyone in the group is collective, and his group (as a collective) is individualistic totally hilarious.

Couldn't make a post stupid enough to not seem potentially real though. I thought the circularity of it might give it away.

You have to be brave enough to go back 15 or so pages to find all the R vs. K selected nonsense in this thread.

 

[Greoric]

Run people? WTF does that mean?

Glad you asked. You were just commenting about how you don't see anything getting done, unless "someone's running it". A little disappointing considering I spent my time trying to educate you on how myopic that is.

 

[Greoric]

I was just having fun with Greoric's weird idea that only westerners can be individualistic. I find the whole concept of grouping entirely different cultures together and stating everyone in the group is collective, and his group (as a collective) is individualistic totally hilarious.

Couldn't make a post stupid enough to not seem potentially real though. I thought the circularity of it might give it away.

You have to be brave enough to go back 15 or so pages to find all the R vs. K selected nonsense in this thread.

I guess you could also just give an anecdotal example other than the West where individualism originated outside European introduction....

 

[Limbo Pete]

I was just having fun with Greoric's weird idea that only westerners can be individualistic. I find the whole concept of grouping entirely different cultures together and stating everyone in the group is collective, and his group (as a collective) is individualistic totally hilarious.

Couldn't make a post stupid enough to not seem potentially real though. I thought the circularity of it might give it away.

You have to be brave enough to go back 15 or so pages to find all the R vs. K selected nonsense in this thread.

It helps to couch this nonsense closer to the source. These weird internet philosopher pseudo-smart guys have really taken off the last couple years. Google "Molyneux r K" and viola, we see the great and powerful Oz is some damn youtuber that thinks they got it all figured out.