Nakamura - Sink Or Swim?

Motivated Randy orton> styles.
On a side note the song in the trailer for that movie was stuck in my head for so long.

We probably do but I was including plenty of good matches in that. Different tastes I guess. I've never been as excited for a big styles match like I was for rock or punk matches with John. See even here, I don't really like gimmick matches. I recall their backlash match being surprisingly good though and I've never cared much for Ambrose either even though he's a good wrestler too.

I'm not a huge fan of gimmick matches, but this match was incredible. Out of curiosity, how old are you? This may be a generational gap. No one over 30 I think would ever have any use for your John Cenas and Roman Reigns of the world. They've just seen too many good wrestlers like Ric Flair, Rick Rude, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, etc.. to be fooled by these cookie cutter wrestlers today.
 
I'm not a huge fan of gimmick matches, but this match was incredible. Out of curiosity, how old are you? This may be a generational gap. No one over 30 I think would ever have any use for your John Cenas and Roman Reigns of the world. They've just seen too many good wrestlers like Ric Flair, Rick Rude, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, etc.. to be fooled by these cookie cutter wrestlers today.

In fairness, I think Cena is a bit underrated as an in ring performer. He will, and has phoned it in for a lot of his matches, but when push comes to shove, the guy can work with just about anyone, and usually delivers when it matters. Now, he's no Shawn Michaels, but he's no Hulk Hogan either. He's pretty damn versatile when he needs to be.

He's also better than Sting.
 
In fairness, I think Cena is a bit underrated as an in ring performer. He will, and has phoned it in for a lot of his matches, but when push comes to shove, the guy can work with just about anyone, and usually delivers when it matters. Now, he's no Shawn Michaels, but he's no Hulk Hogan either. He's pretty damn versatile when he needs to be.

He's also better than Sting.

Better than Sting? I've never seen anything out of Cena to equal what Sting did with Flair, the Great Muta, Rick Rude, Cactus Jack, or Vader.
 
Better than Sting? I've never seen anything out of Cena to equal what Sting did with Flair, the Great Muta, Rick Rude, Cactus Jack, or Vader.

I have. Cena's work with Punk, trumps all that shit.

Full disclosure, I have never seen anything special about Sting. People make fun of Cena's five moves of doom, but what does Sting have? Like two? I'll give him a bit of a pass for his early work, because in reality, everyone looks a bit limited working in that era, but the dude never evolved. He punched and kicked his way through most of his matches right up until he retired, and when the business evolved, name me one great Sting match. Did he have any as Crow Sting? Joker Sting? I certainly don't remember any. Contrast him to a Ric Flair, who put on great, even legendary matches into his twilight years.

Sting had some charisma I suppose, and the fans liked him, but if we're talking solely about in ring work, I have never seen anything remotely impressive about the dude. Ever.
 
I'm not a huge fan of gimmick matches, but this match was incredible. Out of curiosity, how old are you? This may be a generational gap. No one over 30 I think would ever have any use for your John Cenas and Roman Reigns of the world. They've just seen too many good wrestlers like Ric Flair, Rick Rude, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, etc.. to be fooled by these cookie cutter wrestlers today.
Other than laughing at Ellsworth it blends in with all the other ones for me. 24. I see a lot of internet darlings as bland Shawn michaels knock offs as I'm sure you see reigns and cena as hulk hogan wannabes.
 
I have. Cena's work with Punk, trumps all that shit.

Full disclosure, I have never seen anything special about Sting. People make fun of Cena's five moves of doom, but what does Sting have? Like two? I'll give him a bit of a pass for his early work, because in reality, everyone looks a bit limited working in that era, but the dude never evolved. He punched and kicked his way through most of his matches right up until he retired, and when the business evolved, name me one great Sting match. Did he have any as Crow Sting? Joker Sting? I certainly don't remember any. Contrast him to a Ric Flair, who put on great, even legendary matches into his twilight years.

Sting had some charisma I suppose, and the fans liked him, but if we're talking solely about in ring work, I have never seen anything remotely impressive about the dude. Ever.
Sting, Hogan, and Warrior were the guys I marked for as a kid and they were my favorite wrestlers until I was about 10 and speaking of Sting, you are correct; Sting didn't have a very diverse moveset. Sting was basically a puncher and a kicker and his punches consisted of a closed fist usually followed by a backhand chop to the neck. With that said, Sting's style was a flashier version of Austin's SCSA style. The flashier style meaning it didn't look as brawly, if that's the right word.

What Sting had was charisma, the look, and I know I just gravitated toward him. As far as an in-ring worker, I'd have to give it to Cena although the child in me wants Sting to get it. It's close though and could be argued either way. I just watched Sting because he was Sting and I cheered for him but I can't say I loved his work. My favorite Sting matches, outside of the Flair stuff, was his feud with Vader because Vader was so stiff and I felt so bad for Sting.

Cena's 2015 year, though, was as solid as anyone's over the past 20 years in terms of match quality. There may be some who have had better matches (strictly NA work), but as a whole, it was a great year for Cena and he showed his worth.
 
Okay...

So I will apply my litigation lawyer shit skills here and say that this discussion has been railroaded from Nak sinking swimming to Nak winning a belt.

Nak has been in main event stories for the last year, been in the most anticipated WM match for hard core dudes and is now the main heel on SD.

He is still swimming despite a meh WM match (which Cornette loved and you know I love Cornette).
 
Okay...

So I will apply my litigation lawyer shit skills here and say that this discussion has been railroaded from Nak sinking swimming to Nak winning a belt.

Nak has been in main event stories for the last year, been in the most anticipated WM match for hard core dudes and is now the main heel on SD.

He is still swimming despite a meh WM match (which Cornette loved and you know I love Cornette).

He's definitely "swimming", but people who dislike him won't admit it.

I'd make an account bet with you over whether Nak will have been a success or failure on main roster after a year's time, but considering in just three weeks you've shifted from "he won't get over" to "it'll fade fast" ...

D8sxR1.gif


He could be the top merch seller and hold both WWE and Universal titles simultaneously and you'd still say only neckbeards buy his shirts and he still can't work so it doesn't count.

Like I said nearly full year ago (two weeks shy actually haha) ... goalposts have not stopped moving.

If Nak's not swimming, then the only people who are swimming are Lesnar, Reigns, Rollins, AJ. And probably not Lesnar, Reigns, or Rollins by these standards lol
 
Like I said nearly full year ago (two weeks shy actually haha) ... goalposts have not stopped moving.

Oh', quit your whining. I immediately proposed and accepted a bet that would at least set some parameters to this nonsense. The Smackdown belt isn't exactly the brass ring, and you were all too confident he would've reached those heights by now. He hasn't, so now you want to bring back this tired argument. To which I will bring back mine. In your mind, he won't be sinking until he's released by the company.

Hot shotted into the spotlight. 0-3 in title opportunities(0-2 against Jinder Ma-fuckin-hal), and has already had his character retooled.

Oh', but big things await! This cringe promo, no English, sloppy wrestler is the next big thing. It's gonna happen!

ROFL.
 
In fairness, I think Cena is a bit underrated as an in ring performer. He will, and has phoned it in for a lot of his matches, but when push comes to shove, the guy can work with just about anyone, and usually delivers when it matters. Now, he's no Shawn Michaels, but he's no Hulk Hogan either. He's pretty damn versatile when he needs to be.

He's also better than Sting.

Stannis is saying he's the best though... He's a fucking troll.
 
Other than laughing at Ellsworth it blends in with all the other ones for me. 24. I see a lot of internet darlings as bland Shawn michaels knock offs as I'm sure you see reigns and cena as hulk hogan wannabes.

I'm not too sure how that's supposed to make Cena or Roman any better. Those two are beyond bland. It's almost like you have your "side" which consists of the opposite of what most smarks like and force yourself to stick with that side for "Indy darling/lovers" hater reasons.

A lot of deflecting here with out actually being able to explain what's so good about these two. Just like you deflecting when not being able to admit that Roman/Brock 2 was absolute garbage.. We both know it, but you don't have the balls to admit it because you've chosen your side.

Meanwhile I can shit on Roman and Balor at the same time. Their aren't any sides with me and no strings either like you the puppet.
 
Oh', quit your whining. I immediately proposed and accepted a bet that would at least set some parameters to this nonsense. The Smackdown belt isn't exactly the brass ring, and you were all too confident he would've reached those heights by now. He hasn't, so now you want to bring back this tired argument. To which I will bring back mine. In your mind, he won't be sinking until he's released by the company.

Hot shotted into the spotlight. 0-3 in title opportunities(0-2 against Jinder Ma-fuckin-hal), and has already had his character retooled.

Oh', but big things await! This cringe promo, no English, sloppy wrestler is the next big thing. It's gonna happen!

ROFL.

Top heel on SD, fought for a title at WM, beat Cena/Reigns/Orton/AJ (well in Japan). He’s lacking Taker/Lesnar /Hogan on his win resume.
 
<{Heymansnicker}>

He's been a heel for one show...

Two.

And who is the top heel on SD now if it’s not Nak?

But he needs his music to change. Can’t work if the crowd is singing as they ALWAYS do (because he’s sinking).

Some dubstep version.
 
Sting, Hogan, and Warrior were the guys I marked for as a kid and they were my favorite wrestlers until I was about 10 and speaking of Sting, you are correct; Sting didn't have a very diverse moveset. Sting was basically a puncher and a kicker and his punches consisted of a closed fist usually followed by a backhand chop to the neck. With that said, Sting's style was a flashier version of Austin's SCSA style. The flashier style meaning it didn't look as brawly, if that's the right word.

What Sting had was charisma, the look, and I know I just gravitated toward him. As far as an in-ring worker, I'd have to give it to Cena although the child in me wants Sting to get it. It's close though and could be argued either way. I just watched Sting because he was Sting and I cheered for him but I can't say I loved his work. My favorite Sting matches, outside of the Flair stuff, was his feud with Vader because Vader was so stiff and I felt so bad for Sting.

Cena's 2015 year, though, was as solid as anyone's over the past 20 years in terms of match quality. There may be some who have had better matches (strictly NA work), but as a whole, it was a great year for Cena and he showed his worth.

Keller on his podcast said that Sting’s issue with being NWA/WCW main eventer was he couldn’t handle a promo. Great otherwise but he’s not a promo guy.
 
Two.

And who is the top heel on SD now if it’s not Nak?

I guess it's him by default, since he's in the title picture, and Owens and Zayn are gone, but it's a little much to give him that accolade like it was earned.

But he needs his music to change. Can’t work if the crowd is singing as they ALWAYS do (because he’s sinking)

Yeah, swimming like Fandango...

Some dubstep version.

J-death metal.
 
Okay dude. He is in the top three on SD with AJ/Bryan. Those two are above him but he’s above the rest. I think he will win at Osamabinlandamania but even if he doesn’t that’s still two huge events in two weeks.

You’re counting wins and losses in a scripted promotion but not counting the fact he has been fighting champs. While everybody has been singing his song. You’re theRassler vs Nak.

PS Fandango was going for a belt before he got injured.
 
Okay dude. He is in the top three on SD with AJ/Bryan. Those two are above him but he’s above the rest. I think he will win at Osamabinlandamania but even if he doesn’t that’s still two huge events in two weeks.

You're not actually buying into that GRR as anything more than some glorified house show, are you? Nothing of significance will happen on that show.

You’re counting wins and losses in a scripted promotion but not counting the fact he has been fighting champs. While everybody has been singing his song. You’re theRassler vs Nak.

I'm looking at trajectory. He was hot shotted into the spotlight, failed to impress, and now Vince is giving him a chance as heel to do something other than have fans sing his theme song.

I'm only counting wins and losses for kicks. I'm actually judging him as a performer. As a performer in the WWE, he's sitting at a D- right now. Worked with all sorts of styles, and has failed to have a great match with any of them. Cringe promos, cringe character, can't wrestle a decent match with anybody...

Yeah, he's really going places.
 
The narrative isn’t Nak swimming because he wins a belt. Your sig bet is an addition to Nak swims/sink.

Dude is loved by fans, fights for the belt, is the main heel on SD.

Fighting Apollo Crews on SD is sinking.

Fighting AJ at WM is swimming. Fucking up the AJ/Bryanson match is swimming.
 
The narrative isn’t Nak swimming because he wins a belt. Your sig bet is an addition to Nak swims/sink.

I'm well aware of what the bet is. However, his trajectory is going downward. When the company puts a lot of stock into you, and you break some dude's face, drop Cena on his head, have yet to put on one decent match, and stink up Wrestlemania while working with AJ Styles, which is then proceeded by a change in direction by turning heel, it's not looking too good.

Dude is loved by fans

This literally means nothing.

fights for the belt

Yeah, the prestigious belt that Jinder Mahal held for months.

is the main heel on SD.

By default.

Fighting Apollo Crews on SD is sinking.

Give it time.

Fucking up the AJ/Bryanson match is swimming.

Shall I list the amount of failures who have interrupted big matches during their initial push?

Jesus Christ. Literally ANYTHING this guy does is a sign of success in your mind.

"OMG! He did a run in on the Smackdown main event! Well, that settles it. Just induct him into the HOF right now. He's officially a legend."

ROFL.
 
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