black farmers were sold fake crop seeds to drive them into bankruptcy

[all caps]

You can borrow 'em anytime, man.

Fraid the shades wont cover up the tint of my skin

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

You can borrow 'em anytime, man.

 

[Kindacrazy]

Sounds like a silly conspiracy theory like the CIA bringing in crack.

The CIA also brought in powder cocaine purchased mostly by whites and heroin purchased by everyone. Don't believe everything you read. Blacks had cocaine and heroin available to them but choose crack just like they had chosen crack before.

If the accusations are true, that is beyond fucked up. But I would give it a 10% chance. Huge numbers of blacks believed that churches fried chicken had been engineered to make black men sterile in the 90's.

 

[ocfightfan]

If it's true then I hope the farmers win big.

 

[Madmick]

Before this forum gets hysterical I want to point out that what we have right now is circumstantial evidence of outright sabotage (as @jefferz pointed out, even non-certified seeds should have a higher germination rate, so these yields would likely reflect active sabotage). Still, circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

This isn't a forum that emphasizes certainty of proof as a chief value. Conjecture and hypothesis rule, here.

Since such targeted sabotage seems like one of the dumbest possible crimes a corporation could commit, and all but the very dumbest Trumpets I know would understand that the new zeitgeist wouldn't extend to sympathy for anything as grossly repugnant as a crime like this, my suspicion is that poor handling or storage somehow damaged the seeds. But there are people like the Bundys out there. There are people capable of this, or who maybe are so racist they thought the black farmers wouldn't be smart enough to get suspicious, and take their seed to a university.

I honestly don't know what to think. It seems very feeble. You would expect their lawyer to have something more substantial to say at this point than to grandstand about "weaponizing" the seeds. Simultaneously, it raises my suspicions.

 

[Strychnine]

Smells like bullshit. What is the motivation for the seed seller to give a paying customer garbage seeds? Makes no business sense.

Forcing people into servitude by subterfuge AND taking the lands they own rarely does...

 

[bushman505]

I can't tell if we're talking about @bobgeese or @bushman505, but it's provocative...

Why bring me into this, I have no problem with black people. I didn’t even know there were black farmers.

 

[panamaican]

The story is pretty straightforward and believable. The black farmers are alleging that the distributor switched out the seeds. They are not speculating. They got the local university to test the seeds and those tests revealed that the seeds they received were not authentic Stine seeds

The Stine seed company is included in the lawsuit because the distributor is their agent and they, the seed company, possibly bear legal responsibility for the distributor's actions. Stine didn't commit the fraud, per the allegation.

As to why the distributor would do that? To re-sell the seeds a second time for more profit. Or to harm the black farmers financially and make it possible for someone the distributor knows to purchase the land.

Would this hurt the distributor's business? No. The people who got legitimate seeds will have no reason to stop using the Stine company or the distributor. They got what they paid for. Would you stop buying Nike sneakers because some other customer got screwed on a purchase? Of course not, you'd only stop if you were the screwed customer. And here, they don't care about the black famers not buying from them because they can sell the legit seeds for profit or acquire the land, also for profit. This only harms the distributor if the scheme is discovered before the profit is realized.

Is it race motivated? That's harder to prove. If they overwhelmingly targeted black farmers for this scheme then racism certainly becomes more plausible. If they distributed the fake seeds to a similar number of white farmers then it isn't.

 

[Madmick]

@Seano

He really left his mark in a thread about a black kid who was shot at by white homeowners when he asked them for directions because they were block parents. Even though the police used video to confirm his story, Seano (and others) spent the entire thread arguing that the homeowners were in the right because they couldn't believe the black kid wasn't burglarizing them.

It was a real tour de stupid force.

I don't believe that @Seano is a bonafide racist. I think he's someone who is suspicious and cynical about modern African-American culture, particularly some of the values that have managed to take hold it, or at least gain pervasiveness within it, and I would be a chicken shit if I didn't voice that I share many of his concerns and cynicism. I saw that story. I was amazed anyone would blame the kid following what every authority had to say on the matter, the cam evidence, etc, but I also notice that progressives never question anyone on their side of the aisle who is skeptical of authority narratives pertaining to racially sensitive matters.

They will literally watch the same bodycam video of Aldon Sterling that I did and come to a different conclusion. They will make every effort to see what they want to see, and not what is apparent. It's stuff like Ahmed the clock kid that creates this distrust, Joe. It's not necessarily racism. It's a cynicism that extends to the belief that even the authorities are sometimes the manipulated dupes.

You are not above Seano in demonstrating a lack of bias, or a willingness to see both sides.

 

[woodguyatl]

Smells like bullshit. What is the motivation for the seed seller to give a paying customer garbage seeds? Makes no business sense.

You don't see a motivation for a seed distributor to replace expensive seed with cheap seed before selling it to someone? My guess at motive would be a higher profit margin. A gas station in VA many years ago was pumping cheap gas out of the Premium pumps for just the same reason.

 

[Madmick]

The story is pretty straightforward and believable. The black farmers are alleging that the distributor switched out the seeds. They are not speculating. They got the local university to test the seeds and those tests revealed that the seeds they received were not authentic Stine seeds

The Stine seed company is included in the lawsuit because the distributor is their agent and they, the seed company, possibly bear legal responsibility for the distributor's actions. Stine didn't commit the fraud, per the allegation.

As to why the distributor would do that? To re-sell the seeds a second time for more profit. Or to harm the black farmers financially and make it possible for someone the distributor knows to purchase the land.

Would this hurt the distributor's business? No. The people who got legitimate seeds will have no reason to stop using the Stine company or the distributor. They got what they paid for. Would you stop buying Nike sneakers because some other customer got screwed on a purchase? Of course not, you'd only stop if you were the screwed customer. And here, they don't care about the black famers not buying from them because they can sell the legit seeds for profit or acquire the land, also for profit. This only harms the distributor if the scheme is discovered before the profit is realized.

Is it race motivated? That's harder to prove. If they overwhelmingly targeted black farmers for this scheme then racism certainly becomes more plausible. If they distributed the fake seeds to a similar number of white farmers then it isn't.

The risk to their business isn't in the appeal of their product when legitimately and honestly delivered to the customer farmers.

This is the great logical failing of your post. You're presuming obliviousness to the potential backlash from the race angle. No white businessman in this country is oblivious to this threat in 2018.

 

[JosephDredd]

I don't believe that @Seano is a bonafide racist. I think he's someone who is suspicious and cynical about modern African-American culture, particularly some of the values that have managed to take hold it, or at least gain pervasiveness within it, and I would be a chicken shit if I didn't voice that I share many of his concerns and cynicism. I saw that story. I was amazed anyone would blame the kid following what every authority had to say on the matter, the cam evidence, etc, but I also notice that progressives never question anyone on their side of the aisle who is skeptical of authority narratives pertaining to racially sensitive matters.

They will literally watch the same bodycam video of Aldon Sterling that I did and come to a different conclusion. They will make every effort to see what they want to see, and not what is apparent. It's stuff like Ahmed the clock kid that creates this distrust, Joe. It's not necessarily racism. It's a cynicism that extends to the belief that even the authorities are sometimes the manipulated dupes.

You are not above Seano in demonstrating a lack of bias, or a willingness to see both sides.

No, I am not, but I do find myself apologizing and admitting I'm wrong well before I find myself arguing the most conclusive proof that could possibly exist. Which differentiates me in some way, imo.

 

[oldshadow]

That's fucked up.

However were the seeds only sold to black farmers or were they also sold to some white farmers?

Whatever if they knowing sold bad seeds to any farmer that's fucked up and they should be held accountable.

 

[Prefect]

You don't see a motivation for a seed distributor to replace expensive seed with cheap seed before selling it to someone? My guess at motive would be a higher profit margin. A gas station in VA many years ago was pumping cheap gas out of the Premium pumps for just the same reason.

If you didn't kill the non-gmo crop with herbicide, you could dilute the crop substantially and get the same benefits. Just like how a vaccinated population protects the unvaccinated as well.

 

[jefferz]

Before this forum gets hysterical I want to point out that what we have right now is circumstantial evidence of outright sabotage (as @jefferz pointed out, even non-certified seeds should have a higher germination rate, so these yields would likely reflect active sabotage). Still, circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

This isn't a forum that emphasizes certainty of proof as a chief value. Conjecture and hypothesis rule, here.

Since such targeted sabotage seems like one of the dumbest possible crimes a corporation could commit, and all but the very dumbest Trumpets I know would understand that the new zeitgeist wouldn't extend to sympathy for anything as grossly repugnant as a crime like this, my suspicion is that poor handling or storage somehow damaged the seeds. But there are people like the Bundys out there. There are people capable of this, or who maybe are so racist they thought the black farmers wouldn't be smart enough to get suspicious, and take their seed to a university.

I honestly don't know what to think. It seems very feeble. You would expect their lawyer to have something more substantial to say at this point than to grandstand about "weaponizing" the seeds. Simultaneously, it raises my suspicions.

@Prefect brought up a very possible scenario as well. There’s basically 2 types of soybeans raised, Liberty Link(Bayer) and Round Up ready (Monsanto). Round up as we all know is glyphosate resistant and Liberty Link is glufosinate resistant. If you spray glufosinate on round up ready stuff, or vice versa, it will kill off the plant.
The farmers could have sprayed the wrong chemical or were given the wrong chemical. Even something like not cleaning out your sprayer between chemicals can do lots of damage.
As for it being stored improperly, that’s highly unlikely. Bad soybeans smell horrendous and they would have caught it when seeding. I can’t explain the smell, but it’s rank. They also swell to a noticeable size when wet.
They could have cracked them when handling, but you’d have to do it intentionally because there’s no way you’d crack almost every seed even if you trickled them through multiple augers.

 

[panamaican]

The risk to their business isn't in the appeal of their product when legitimately and honestly delivered to the customer farmers.

This is the great logical failing of your post. You're presuming obliviousness to the potential backlash from the race angle. No white businessman in this country is oblivious to this threat in 2018.

Not at all. Your criticism relies on their belief that they would eventually be caught. But no one commits this type of fraud assuming they would be caught.

There's no question as to whether or not the farmers received a fraudulent product:

After losing millions of dollars, the farmers took the seeds to experts at Mississippi State University to have them tested. They say the tests show the seeds sold to the black farmers were not certified Stine seeds.

Once the general question of if they got what they paid for has been resolved, the only question left is "why would the distributor give them a product far inferior to what was advertised". And when most businesses commit fraud on their customers, they do it because they think they won't get caught. So, no, the distributor is probably not sitting around wondering about racial backlash from a crime that they don't think they'll ever get caught committing.

 

[Lord Coke]

Forcing people into servitude by subterfuge AND taking the lands they own rarely does...

I've never seen Iron Man three so this is my first time seeing this. How the f#$% is a character called the Mandarin white

 

[Gandhi]

The story is pretty straightforward and believable. The black farmers are alleging that the distributor switched out the seeds. They are not speculating. They got the local university to test the seeds and those tests revealed that the seeds they received were not authentic Stine seeds

The Stine seed company is included in the lawsuit because the distributor is their agent and they, the seed company, possibly bear legal responsibility for the distributor's actions. Stine didn't commit the fraud, per the allegation.

As to why the distributor would do that? To re-sell the seeds a second time for more profit. Or to harm the black farmers financially and make it possible for someone the distributor knows to purchase the land.

Would this hurt the distributor's business? No. The people who got legitimate seeds will have no reason to stop using the Stine company or the distributor. They got what they paid for. Would you stop buying Nike sneakers because some other customer got screwed on a purchase? Of course not, you'd only stop if you were the screwed customer. And here, they don't care about the black famers not buying from them because they can sell the legit seeds for profit or acquire the land, also for profit. This only harms the distributor if the scheme is discovered before the profit is realized.

Is it race motivated? That's harder to prove. If they overwhelmingly targeted black farmers for this scheme then racism certainly becomes more plausible. If they distributed the fake seeds to a similar number of white farmers then it isn't.

Spot on except it does hurt the business. If there are competitors, those farmers go somewhere else in future and you lose the repeat business. That’s not to say a distributor won’t go after the short term quick gain.

 

[Gandhi]

Why bring me into this, I have no problem with black people. I didn’t even know there were black farmers.

Ok just L O L. I’m not racist and did not know blacks could even work a tractor (in addition to driving, swimming, and speaking English).

The more you know......

 

[Seano]

I don't believe that @Seano is a bonafide racist. I think he's someone who is suspicious and cynical about modern African-American culture, particularly some of the values that have managed to take hold it, or at least gain pervasiveness within it, and I would be a chicken shit if I didn't voice that I share many of his concerns and cynicism. I saw that story. I was amazed anyone would blame the kid following what every authority had to say on the matter, the cam evidence, etc, but I also notice that progressives never question anyone on their side of the aisle who is skeptical of authority narratives pertaining to racially sensitive matters.

They will literally watch the same bodycam video of Aldon Sterling that I did and come to a different conclusion. They will make every effort to see what they want to see, and not what is apparent. It's stuff like Ahmed the clock kid that creates this distrust, Joe. It's not necessarily racism. It's a cynicism that extends to the belief that even the authorities are sometimes the manipulated dupes.

You are not above Seano in demonstrating a lack of bias, or a willingness to see both sides.

I believe I can express contempt for certain aspects of black culture without being "racist". Hating actions isn't the same as hating people.