Brian Ortega asked Dana White to be paid for UFC 226

@Mike

First off not understanding how business works doesn't put you on some moral high ground. If you think every fighter that tries to negotiate gets cut or told to fuck off, well you're wrong. Simple as that. Guys coming over from Bellator or strikeforce as champs or top contenders there were not getting standard contracts. Well known fighters that made their name in the ufc aren't settling for lowball contracts when they renegotiate.

In literally every other business, if you want to get paid what you feel you deserve, you have to negotiate. I don't know why people think fucking prize fighting is the one business that would magically be different.

You clearly know nothing about how business works or about having leverage over somebody.

I never said that every fighter that tries to negotiate gets cut or told to fuck off(Although if they ask for too much like GSP, they will be bad mouthed by the UFC/DANA in some PR campaign against said fighters who wants a better contracts)......They sign fight contracts that usually are for several fights, and they negotiate the money they get.....Putting extra shit like "I get paid show money even if the fighter pulls out", is something they don't negotiate and most likely the UFC would never agreed to.

Again Brian Ortega doesn't have much leverage...he isn't a huge fucking name that could be asking to get paid regardless if a fighter pulls out...At most he can ask for money, and he won't get much of it because the UFC knows they hold most of the cards...

Brian Ortega asking for guaranteed money even if the fighter pulls out, wouldn't be agreed upon, and if Brian Ortega tried to hold out...He would just waste time because the UFC won't agree to it.

The only fighters who could probably put they get show money regardless if a fighter pulls out, are big time fighters like Conor/Ronda/Brock...They have actual leverage.


You clearly don't know shit about business.
 
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Collective action is more likely to be effective than attempting to boxing model in MMA. MMA does not have the built in long term fan bases or star power to support that system nor do they have the amateur production system boxing does. The also already have a company that is bigger than the sport. The majority of people think MMA is called UFC for god's sake.

This fight is lost. Collective action, being classified as employees and in the long run some form of collective bargaining is the only way fighters will ever get to a good position


I agree completely with you but I just don't see how it can happen. There is a reason unions only exist in major sports that are team based. When you look at it objectively there actually aren't Any individual based sports that pay well currently

Top 5 paying sports for individuals

Golf
Cycling
Boxing
Auto racing
Boxing

And that's it out of the top 10 paying sports globally and none of those have unions.
 
So? The UFC is the one failing to deliver their agreed upon deal with the fighter. How about fighters stop training before fights? Because it costs money that they aren't guarunteed to get revenue to cover? How will the sport be then?

If a fighter pulls out due to injury, and the opponent is there, weighs in, he deserves to be paid his show money. There should be a time period restriction, maybe the week of the fight or something, maybe 2-3 weeks out. But no way Ortega shouldn't get paid. That is complete bullshit.
Completely disagree, his job was to fight July 7th. Holloway pulled out. Shit happens, not UFC’s fault. If it were on Friday and they couldnt get a replacement, ortega would deserve full compensation, because he showed up and tried to fight (Ala Pettis and Chiesa with the bus inc

However, this shit was on Wednesday and he was offered two opportunities to stay on the card (AKA, two opportunities to go to work), and he turned them down. It’s a smart move to wait for the title but if you turn down fights, you’re obviously sacrificing your purse this weekend for potentially more money later. It’s clearly one of the cons of not staying on the card.

If you were allowed to turn down replacements and get paid anyway you’d have to be a world class imbecile to ever take a replacement fight when you could get paid to sit with your thumb up your ass.
 
Sounds like Ortega is getting a big ego now that UFC has been pushing him so much. Remember that this is a guy who is only 27 and claims not that long ago to be about that thug life, he is probably not handling this newfound fame well and might be hurting his UFC stock with these actions.
 
I agree completely with you but I just don't see how it can happen. There is a reason unions only exist in major sports that are team based. When you look at it objectively there actually aren't Any individual based sports that pay well currently

Top 5 paying sports for individuals

Golf
Cycling
Boxing
Auto racing
Boxing

And that's it out of the top 10 paying sports globally and none of those have unions.

But none of these sports have a league or organizing body that is bigger than the sport and bigger than even the most famous athletes. Tiger was bigger than the PGA. Lance was bigger than whatever cycling is etc.

The reason MMA is in this situation is because the UFC is bordering on monopoly territory but without the exemptions that leagues like the NFL, NBA etc. have. This means fighters have little choice but to work for them, but aren't given the legal protection other athletes are. That's also why these sports HAVE TO have organization among athletes to protect their rights because they have nowhere else to go
 
The UFC should have a guy for every weight class that is on the card ready to go. If the fights go through, pay the guy who was ready to go. The UFC needs to reduce their margin for some stability to these cards. And all fighters should be required to fight that specific replacement as they would have known about them for an extended period of time.
I've wanted this for awhile (along with cage-side weigh-ins). But surely a nightmare to entice upper echelon guys to be a standby. Combined with the assumption the UFC laughing at the idea of paying a fighter not to fight.. makes it unfortunately unlikely.
 
@Mike



You clearly know nothing about how business works or about having leverage over somebody.

I never said that every fighter that tries to negotiate gets cut or told to fuck off(Although if they ask for too much like GSP, they will be bad mouthed by the UFC/DANA in some PR campaign against said fighters who wants a better contracts)......They sign fight contracts that usually are for several fights, and they negotiate the money they get.....Putting extra shit like "I get paid show money even if the fighter pulls out", is something they don't negotiate and most likely the UFC would never agreed to.

Again Brian Ortega doesn't have much leverage...he isn't a huge fucking name that could be asking to get paid regardless if a fighter pulls out...At most he can ask for money, and he won't get much of it because the UFC knows they hold most of the cards...

Brian Ortega asking for guaranteed money even if the fighter pulls out, wouldn't be agreed upon, and if Brian Ortega tried to hold out...He would just waste time because the UFC won't agree to it.

The only fighters who could probably put they get show money regardless if a fighter pulls out, are big time fighters like Conor/Ronda/Brock...They have actual leverage.


You clearly don't know shit about business.
<YeahOKJen>

Fighters have gotten paid show money on a case by case basis, or negotiated more money to accept a late notice replacement. Your argument basically amounts to if you're not a top 5 draw in the company, you shouldn't even try to negotiate anything out of a standard contract. If a fighter really believes they have no leverage, then their options are lobbying for a union or leveraging free agency to get more money. Either way if there's no language in their contract specifying they get their purse if an opponent pulls out, they shouldn't expect it. Corporations aren't usually in the habit of giving any more than the absolute letter of the contract states. Whether you believe that is morally right or not, that's how business works in the real world.


Acknowledging that fact doesn't make someone a corporate shill.
 
But none of these sports have a league or organizing body that is bigger than the sport and bigger than even the most famous athletes. Tiger was bigger than the PGA. Lance was bigger than whatever cycling is etc.

The reason MMA is in this situation is because the UFC is bordering on monopoly territory but without the exemptions that leagues like the NFL, NBA etc. have. This means fighters have little choice but to work for them, but aren't given the legal protection other athletes are. That's also why these sports HAVE TO have organization among athletes to protect their rights because they have nowhere else to go
Well said. Boxing actually has multiple viable promotions, and superstars are effectively bigger than the promotions and able to force co-promotion. The landscape is completely different in mma. UFC IS mma in the perception of the casual audience.
 
Ortega could have become the man, especially if Max never fights at 145 again. Instead he did the complete opposite.

And he could have gotten that by fighting a guy who didn’t even have a training camp.

It was a dream scenario just handed to him and he ran away from it out of fear.

Ortega just wasted an opportunity of a life time.

From watching his interview with Ariel, Ortega looks like he regrets it too. Ortega knows he fucked up.
 
If UFC pays fighters when their opponent pulls out, no fighter will ever accept a replacement fight again.
They should pay him a fraction of his money or something. At least cover their training expenses.
 
<YeahOKJen>

Fighters have gotten paid show money on a case by case basis, or negotiated more money to accept a late notice replacement. Your argument basically amounts to if you're not a top 5 draw in the company, you shouldn't even try to negotiate anything out of a standard contract. If a fighter really believes they have no leverage, then their options are lobbying for a union or leveraging free agency to get more money. Either way if there's no language in their contract specifying they get their purse if an opponent pulls out, they shouldn't expect it. Corporations aren't usually in the habit of giving any more than the absolute letter of the contract states. Whether you believe that is morally right or not, that's how business works in the real world.


Acknowledging that fact doesn't make someone a corporate shill.

All this, plus the fact that he got the fight because someone else was willing to take an even bigger risk than he was being asked to take. And he took that someone's opportunity. And this is fighting. Even if you can't do what others have done, you should at least be able to risk what they've risked. I mean Jesus Christ, go get some fans.
 
But none of these sports have a league or organizing body that is bigger than the sport and bigger than even the most famous athletes. Tiger was bigger than the PGA. Lance was bigger than whatever cycling is etc.

The reason MMA is in this situation is because the UFC is bordering on monopoly territory but without the exemptions that leagues like the NFL, NBA etc. have. This means fighters have little choice but to work for them, but aren't given the legal protection other athletes are. That's also why these sports HAVE TO have organization among athletes to protect their rights because they have nowhere else to go


They are a monopoly just as the major leagues are.


NFL has 1700 while the UFC has roughly 500 guys under contract for example

The Nhl only has 690 though while baseball has 750

The NBA actually has only 500 or so
 
Fighters have gotten paid show money on a case by case basis, or negotiated more money to accept a late notice replacement. Your argument basically amounts to if you're not a top 5 draw in the company, you shouldn't even try to negotiate anything out of a standard contract. If a fighter really believes they have no leverage, then their options are lobbying for a union or leveraging free agency to get more money. Either way if there's no language in their contract specifying they get their purse if an opponent pulls out, they shouldn't expect it. Corporations aren't usually in the habit of giving any more than the absolute letter of the contract states. Whether you believe that is morally right or not, that's how business works in the real world.


Acknowledging that fact doesn't make someone a corporate shill.

Show me the evidence of a fighter having a contract that forces the UFC to pay up even if the fighter fallsout.....I been following MMA for a while...That literally has never been part of a contract.

I do remember on rare fucking occasions, the UFC paying a fighter show money but it was not part of the contract.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/4/...or-mcgregor-chiesa-borg-lobov-iaquinta-khabib

Yes Fighters can renegotiate in special circumstances like filling up short notice...it's for money tho.

No, my argument is not that....Im realistic enough to know that the UFC would never agreed to such terms....So I understand why fighters don't negotiate it for it...It's literally a losing cause for 90% of fighters unless they have leverage.....Ortega doesn't have leverage at all.

Ortega shouldn't expect it but he has the right to tell the media and be disappointed......Some fighters believe in good faith, sadly they should expect corporations to fuck them over but I understand why Ortega is disappointed in this billion dollar company, not being able to give him $100k or atleast something for the actual work he did....and yes Promos, Media, weight cutting, etc is work.

You're a corporate shill because you are clearly in the side of the UFC and are making shit up by saying Contracts in the past have stipulations about fighters getting show money if the opponent drops out.
 
They are a monopoly just as the major leagues are.

However they have a lot less players under contract than the team based sports

NFL has 1700 while the UFC has roughly 500 guys under contract for example

The Nhl only has 690 though while baseball has 750

The NBA actually has only 500 or so

That doesn't matter though. Those leagues have monopoly exemptions and are legally allowed to be a monopoly by abiding by certain rules and regulations while the UFC do not. The size of the roster doesn't really come into it
 
and they shouldn't. in 3 days notice? you guys defending how the ufc acts in this regard are being ridiculous. I'm not saying all his show money, but I don't know, 25% of it?

If he gave 25% you'd be bitching even more.
 
What’s ironic is Ortega said he didn’t want to throw away his title shot but that is exactly what he did.

The ufc handed him an interim title fight where the title holder may never fight at 145 again.

Damn Ortega, the ufc handed this to you on a silver plate and you ran away.
 
That doesn't matter though. Those leagues have monopoly exemptions and are legally allowed to be a monopoly by abiding by certain rules and regulations while the UFC do not. The size of the roster doesn't really come into it

Ya I'm aware. As i stated earlier until The question of contractor classification is resolved a union would be unworkable.

How do you even unionize a sport where a large portion of its participants live in other countries?
 
I'm surprised it's 2018 and fighters still sign shitty, one-sided contracts. Show money should be a given if your opponent is unfit to compete.
 
UFC wasted tons of money on the promotion, and sold way less PPVs because the co-main fell out. Do they deserve compensation too?

If anything Max Holloway should be the one paying UFC and Ortega out of his pocket for fucking this one up.
definitely someone should pay ortega. if its the ufc or holloway, I don't care
 
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