Arabs buying foreign wrestlers to represent their country

[dsdoubled]

2 wrestlers one was banned for roids. mmkay

None of those medals were stripped.

 

[2arctanx]

None of those medals were stripped.

should be kaber was banned for 2 years. roider

 

[WarDronx]

As far as i know this is happening in all sports. Maybe nationality-based competitions should be replaced anyway by another amateur competition model.

BTW the way some of you guys attack the OP is irrelevant to the matter at hand. He is not debating technique so his personal experience doesn't come into play. It is a matter of perspective of a controversial tactic countries use to claim prestige/bragging rights and, of course, money (although i, personally, don't see how the accomplishments of individual athletes should be a matter for a political entity like a country). Whether you think he is right or wrong, try to respond based on factors that make sense.

 

[jack36767]

As far as i know this is happening in all sports. Maybe nationality-based competitions should be replaced anyway by another amateur competition model.

BTW the way some of you guys attack the OP is irrelevant to the matter at hand. He is not debating technique so his personal experience doesn't come into play. It is a matter of perspective of a controversial tactic countries use to claim prestige/bragging rights and, of course, money (although i, personally, don't see how the accomplishments of individual athletes should be a matter for a political entity like a country). Whether you think he is right or wrong, try to respond based on factors that make sense.

He’s trying to make statements about the political stuff involved like he’s unfamiliar with and use it as a platform to attack Arabs. His actual personal knowledge of the sport and the issue is very relevant, Granted the personal attack was due to his idiocy but part of that was he refused to actually discuss the issue.. instead of actually discussing the issue he or actually answering counter points he fell into racism and calling it pathetic

 

[dsdoubled]

He’s trying to make statements about the political stuff involved like he’s unfamiliar with and use it as a platform to attack Arabs. His actual personal knowledge of the sport and the issue is very relevant, Granted the personal attack was due to his idiocy but part of that was he refused to actually discuss the issue.. instead of actually discussing the issue he or actually answering counter points he fell into racism and calling it pathetic

This is the problem. I (along with others) provided counters that I think most of us would agree dismantled his argument but he either refused to acknowledge them, diverted to a straw man, addressed only 1 small element of it, or threw some stupid insult.

 

[dsdoubled]

should be kaber was banned for 2 years. roider

But now you're opening yet another argument. Roids or no roids, countries are not producing Olympic champions without an incredibly high level of skill and athleticism.

 

[WarDronx]

He’s trying to make statements about the political stuff involved like he’s unfamiliar with and use it as a platform to attack Arabs. His actual personal knowledge of the sport and the issue is very relevant

Well, i don't see how executing a single leg takedown and how good you(not you personally) are at doing it, for example, makes you (again, not you personally ) more qualified to talk about organizational structures of sports and rules that allow athletes of a different home country to compete for another country in a nationality-based competition and other matters that don't relate to technique. The same thing that the OP is annoyed at is happening in football (soccer) too. Shouldn't it be talked about if someone doesn't play football himself but simply watches and cares?

In any case, i am opposed to nationality-based competitions for many other reasons that can't be discussed on an internet forum, so i am not agreeing with the OP anyway. I am also opposed to bashing people for their place of birth and origin, so not defending OP's opinions on that either. But i also don't like the argument that if you are not personally an athlete (or anything else that is being discussed) you shouldn't have an opinion on things that you are interested in and follow closely.

 

[Dirty Holt]

It is a matter of perspective of a controversial tactic countries use to claim prestige/bragging rights and, of course, money (although i, personally, don't see how the accomplishments of individual athletes should be a matter for a political entity like a country).

Not sure if you are American or not, but there is an explanation to this. Almost all foreign Olympic sports are ran by government agencies. These agencies create sub agencies called national governing bodies, who run each sport how they see fit. NGB's are government entities.

One thing that is required by the IOC is that these governing bodies have a mission statement and bylaws. Almost always in the mission statement, is that the NGB build wrestling and increase participation opportunities. This is done most effectively at the youth level.

The reason why these athletes are brought in by the government is not because of bragging rights, but because bringing in established athletes who can garner attention of the layman with successful results directly enhances a main tenant of their mission statement; to increase participation. When people see someone representing their country and having success, they feel like they could also have success. Perhaps they did not really understand or care for the sport, but then all of a sudden they have an Olympic gold medalist in the sport, and it generates a ton of positive attention, and people want to go try it or at least pay more attention. Americans wont watch a single swim meet their entire lives, then Michael Phelps comes along and they care about him.

You can see this happen frequently in highschool sports. In San Diego for example, a few years ago a girls wrestling team had a roster of 12 which is normal for girls wrestling, and managed to win the sectional championship. The next year they 20, which is way above average, and they won again. Last season they certified 35 girls to wrestle. Why? Because girls who normally would not even know about wrestling saw that girls in their school were winners, and they could join and be winners too.

The OP is from Sweden. I have been there several times for wrestling, and still maintain good relationships with the wrestlers there and the coaches. I know that native Swedes have issues with the behavior of Arabs who have migrated there, and it is a legitimate problem. This may explain why OP is so upset about 2 Arab nations that have a handful of athlete transfers over many European countries who do it at a much higher rate. I do believe OP is a troll but he does bring up a chance to educate people as to why certain combat sports operate a certain way that is seemingly backward or nonsensical.

 

[dsdoubled]

I know that native Swedes have issues with the behavior of Arabs who have migrated there, and it is a legitimate problem. .

Ya know, this did cross my mind as a distinct possibility. I didn't want to go there though as I try to keep my politics separate from other interests. I think you may be right and this is a very real issue.

 

[WarDronx]

Not sure if you are American or not, but there is an explanation to this. Almost all foreign Olympic sports are ran by government agencies. These agencies create sub agencies called national governing bodies, who run each sport how they see fit. NGB's are government entities.

One thing that is required by the IOC is that these governing bodies have a mission statement and bylaws. Almost always in the mission statement, is that the NGB build wrestling and increase participation opportunities. This is done most effectively at the youth level.

The reason why these athletes are brought in by the government is not because of bragging rights, but because bringing in established athletes who can garner attention of the layman with successful results directly enhances a main tenant of their mission statement; to increase participation. When people see someone representing their country and having success, they feel like they could also have success. Perhaps they did not really understand or care for the sport, but then all of a sudden they have an Olympic gold medalist in the sport, and it generates a ton of positive attention, and people want to go try it or at least pay more attention. Americans wont watch a single swim meet their entire lives, then Michael Phelps comes along and they care about him.

You can see this happen frequently in highschool sports. In San Diego for example, a few years ago a girls wrestling team had a roster of 12 which is normal for girls wrestling, and managed to win the sectional championship. The next year they 20, which is way above average, and they won again. Last season they certified 35 girls to wrestle. Why? Because girls who normally would not even know about wrestling saw that girls in their school were winners, and they could join and be winners too.

The OP is from Sweden. I have been there several times for wrestling, and still maintain good relationships with the wrestlers there and the coaches. I know that native Swedes have issues with the behavior of Arabs who have migrated there, and it is a legitimate problem. This may explain why OP is so upset about 2 Arab nations that have a handful of athlete transfers over many European countries who do it at a much higher rate. I do believe OP is a troll but he does bring up a chance to educate people as to why certain combat sports operate a certain way that is seemingly backward or nonsensical.

Although i don't agree that the mission of the agencies and the governments in general are as noble as they claim in their statements and the successes of athletes (and others in other fields) are used for other purposes, i appreciate the time you took to explain the whole thing. I knew the general way the system works but it was well written and helpful here.

 

[2arctanx]

has nothing to do with Arabs, Azerbaijan is the biggest offender of buying foreign athletes. 70% of the medalists were from other countries.

I understand athletes not placing in their native country and going to another country but what incentive does countries have to bring in foreign athletes? it is bragging rights, you might not think that because you are a western you dont understand their backwards mentality, I do. its 100% about bragging rights. They even go as far as changing the name of the athlete to make it sound like they are a native, the arabs do that with the ir african athletes.

Here is another story from Turkey: https://www.balls.ie/athletics/turkey-flag-european-cross-country-championships-379230

the african runners don't live in turkey, dont speak turkish, train and live in africa and when its competition time they represent turkey. it truly is a farce.

Let me give you another example.

Reza Yazdani vs khetag gazyumov an ossetian russian wrestler representing azerbaijan



Reza beats him as he always do (judges cheated in 2016 olympics) and the dumbass crowd becomes violent. Why? not sure the wrestler is a straight import.

Here a few years later and Khetag is back on the russian team training Sadu



its ridiculous. and the majority is with me.

 

[jack36767]

has nothing to do with Arabs, Azerbaijan is the biggest offender of buying foreign athletes. 70% of the medalists were from other countries.

I understand athletes not placing in their native country and going to another country but what incentive does countries have to bring in foreign athletes? it is bragging rights, you might not think that because you are a western you dont understand their backwards mentality, I do. its 100% about bragging rights. They even go as far as changing the name of the athlete to make it sound like they are a native, the arabs do that with the ir african athletes.

Here is another story from Turkey: https://www.balls.ie/athletics/turkey-flag-european-cross-country-championships-379230

the african runners don't live in turkey, dont speak turkish, train and live in africa and when its competition time they represent turkey. it truly is a farce.

Let me give you another example.

Reza Yazdani vs khetag gazyumov an ossetian russian wrestler representing azerbaijan



Reza beats him as he always do (judges cheated in 2016 olympics) and the dumbass crowd becomes violent. Why? not sure the wrestler is a straight import.

Here a few years later and Khetag is back on the russian team training Sadu



its ridiculous. and the majority is with me.

Lol no the majority isn’t with you. It’s simple, wrestlers get money and chance to medal, the countries get medals.

 

[yetanother]

has nothing to do with Arabs, Azerbaijan is the biggest offender of buying foreign athletes. 70% of the medalists were from other countries.

I understand athletes not placing in their native country and going to another country but what incentive does countries have to bring in foreign athletes? it is bragging rights, you might not think that because you are a western you dont understand their backwards mentality, I do. its 100% about bragging rights. .

Why do you care?

 

[2arctanx]

Why do you care?

im a patriot

 

[yetanother]

im a patriot

Are you an Arab jealous your tyrant is hiring competent people to wrestle?

 

[2arctanx]

Are you an Arab jealous your tyrant is hiring competent people to wrestle?

me an Arab? not in this lifetime. if i was an arab i would be far more concerned about child jockey regulations for camel racing.

 

[yetanother]

me an Arab? not in this lifetime. if i was an arab i would be far more concerned about child jockey regulations for camel racing.

So how is whoever the Arabs are hiring affecting you?

 

[2arctanx]

So how is whoever the Arabs are hiring affecting you?

creating unfair advantage for russian wrestlers in tournaments. cultural appropriation. sense of pride and justice. disgusting untactful behavior of others. ect ect

 

[jack36767]

Will someone ask him to actually explain how anything or anyone that doesn’t agree with him is “untactful disgusting behavior” he has yet to answer that question too.

I won’t comment on the “patriotism” comment. I broke that down already

 

[2arctanx]

Will someone ask him to actually explain how anything or anyone that doesn’t agree with him is “untactful disgusting behavior” he has yet to answer that question too.

I won’t comment on the “patriotism” comment. I broke that down already