Yeah I see your point but you could make the argument that Colby also takes away Bens greatest strengths. I think it just comes down to who the better grappler is. Honestly, I don't know but I'd live to find out.
Askren: "Colby Covington is is a poor mans version of me"
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The state of his fans.
Well if your post was correct, why didn't Rda "take Colby down at will" instead of get his ass kicked all over the octagon for 5 rounds?
Oops suzie
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colby is not a world champion.. sorry to break your heart kid
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Prime Josh or Prime Hendricks would've been dangerous fights for Askren. Even if he outwrestled them, If they remained on their feet for even 25-50% of the fight, he'd be in a lot of trouble.
WW Lombard would've been another interesting test. Super strong and a fellow Olympian in judo. Claimed he outwrestled Askren in training. No one outgrappled Lombard at WW, and he had some dangerous and powerful hands (ask Palhares). He also dominated Jake Shields until the last round (cardio was always Lombard's issue)...but still won the fight.
These (along with Maia) are all potential opponents Askren would've faced if he came to the UFC when he first started talking about it.
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Askren is probably the more skilled wrestler. Covington has beaten RDA and Maia. It's too bad Askren was never given an opportunity to prove himself against better competition, but he has lesser accomplishments and a lesser resume than Covington.
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People talk about Askren and what he could achieve, and who he could beat, it's almost like he's a mythical creature. Not gonna lie, it's a bit tedious considering there's no guarantees he would achieve any of the stuff a lot of people seem 100% certain he would. Not saying he wouldn't, but until he steps foot into a better organisation with much better fighters, can we not speak as if he would destroy every opponent in his way.
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would love to see them fight
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I'm in for that
RDA runs right through them, he's a different class of fighter. RDA is a legit top 5 welterweight in the world, Colby just happens to be that good.
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Maybe...maybe not...Larkin has wins over the current #5 and #8 and Lima handled him.
RDA would get completely mauled by Askren btw. It would be worse than Khabib or Colby for RDA.
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I think it's worth noting, since Maia's been brought up multiple times on here, especially in reference to his fight with Fitch: it wasn't Maia's guard-game that beat Fitch. He won by taking him down and taking his back when Fitch tried to scramble out of a bad position. There seems to be this misunderstanding that Maia beat Fitch using his guard, which is why Askren's top-game wouldn't work against him.
Maia hasn't been a guard guy since 2009; did he even pull guard against Anderson, and haven't his guard-pulls been few and far between since then with very little happening from them? And his shining achievement off his back is submitting Chael Sonnen.
Maia's not some guy like Miguel Torres or Rodrigo Nogueira who relishes in fighting off his back and every single person who's been there has had to deal with a lot of problems. He avoids being there except when all else fails. Even Shields beat Maia by taking him down and holding him in guard because he knew he's gotten way weaker there since re-distributing his focus to his shoots (and his guard wasn't the strong part of his grappling game anyways; I don't know where Joe Rogan got the idea that Maia's one of the best guard-players in the sport). Shields lost every round he didn't do that, and didn't Usman do the same thing?
Shields' Jiu-Jitsu style doesn't really offer much in terms of dissimilarity to Askren. If anything, if Shields' top-game style was all it took to overcome Maia's guard, it helps out Askren's case.
When people say things like "Maia outgrappled Fitch, omg", they're implying a lot more than taking him down and riding his back for 15 minutes.
Did people expect Fitch to escape Maia's back-control? Why?
You can't just use vague buzz phrases like "avoiding a sub" or "superior submission grappling" when saying how a fight's gonna turn out (even saying "Askren would win a UFC title because of his wrestling" isn't speaking clearly). How, exactly is it gonna happen? Because based on Maia's fight history and how he performs against opponents who have skillsets similar to Askren, it's not likely (at all) to be because of his guard-work. And assuming it would work because "Askren's Jiu-Jitsu's sloppy, therefore Maia will just lock a triangle on him like Chael" really shows a lack of knowledge of grappling; there've been enough videos talking about Askren's grappling skills for me not to explain why he's far from sloppy. Askren doesn't spend time sitting in conventional guard positions, so how is Maia gonna set up one of his textbook moves (because, as we all know, Maia's known for his textbook Jiu-Jitsu)? Karl Amoussou showed more danger off his back by submitting Bryan Baker with a heel-hook than Maia has in almost 10 years, and Askren shucked off everything he threw at him
This is the biggest thing: what makes people think that Askren doesn't have the balls to go to the mat with Maia? Nothing about any of Askren's fights would suggest that, so bringing up a hypothetical kickboxing match with him is like talking about Gaethje engaging in a cerebral grappling duel.
If Maia would beat Askren, it'd be the same way he beat Fitch or any of his other wins over the last few years: takes them down, advances to their back at some point, either locks in a rear-choke or rides his way to a decision. And, based on his hit-or-miss takedown history, that's not a safe bet against someone like Askren.
That changes the fight into a matter of who's gonna get the takedown first; neither fighter's path to victory lies on their backs, so establishing top-control and implementing your game from the beginning is paramount. If it's a close fight, it's because they spend rounds alternating that role. And based on Askren's wrestling background [I think he's ranked as one of the 10 best collegiate wrestlers ever] and his "I shoot for a takedown 3 seconds into a fight, and I usually get it because I'm a better wrestler than everyone at welterweight" history to start fights, it's safe to say he's got a better chance of pulling it off than Maia does. Their comparative martial arts backgrounds also supports the idea that Ben could stop Maia from taking him down than Maia could stop Askren.
Maia's not some guy like Miguel Torres or Rodrigo Nogueira who relishes in fighting off his back and every single person who's been there has had to deal with a lot of problems. He avoids being there except when all else fails. Even Shields beat Maia by taking him down and holding him in guard because he knew he's gotten way weaker there since re-distributing his focus to his shoots (and his guard wasn't the strong part of his grappling game anyways; I don't know where Joe Rogan got the idea that Maia's one of the best guard-players in the sport). Shields lost every round he didn't do that, and didn't Usman do the same thing?
Shields' Jiu-Jitsu style doesn't really offer much in terms of dissimilarity to Askren. If anything, if Shields' top-game style was all it took to overcome Maia's guard, it helps out Askren's case.
When people say things like "Maia outgrappled Fitch, omg", they're implying a lot more than taking him down and riding his back for 15 minutes.
Did people expect Fitch to escape Maia's back-control? Why?
You can't just use vague buzz phrases like "avoiding a sub" or "superior submission grappling" when saying how a fight's gonna turn out (even saying "Askren would win a UFC title because of his wrestling" isn't speaking clearly). How, exactly is it gonna happen? Because based on Maia's fight history and how he performs against opponents who have skillsets similar to Askren, it's not likely (at all) to be because of his guard-work. And assuming it would work because "Askren's Jiu-Jitsu's sloppy, therefore Maia will just lock a triangle on him like Chael" really shows a lack of knowledge of grappling; there've been enough videos talking about Askren's grappling skills for me not to explain why he's far from sloppy. Askren doesn't spend time sitting in conventional guard positions, so how is Maia gonna set up one of his textbook moves (because, as we all know, Maia's known for his textbook Jiu-Jitsu)? Karl Amoussou showed more danger off his back by submitting Bryan Baker with a heel-hook than Maia has in almost 10 years, and Askren shucked off everything he threw at him
This is the biggest thing: what makes people think that Askren doesn't have the balls to go to the mat with Maia? Nothing about any of Askren's fights would suggest that, so bringing up a hypothetical kickboxing match with him is like talking about Gaethje engaging in a cerebral grappling duel.
If Maia would beat Askren, it'd be the same way he beat Fitch or any of his other wins over the last few years: takes them down, advances to their back at some point, either locks in a rear-choke or rides his way to a decision. And, based on his hit-or-miss takedown history, that's not a safe bet against someone like Askren.
That changes the fight into a matter of who's gonna get the takedown first; neither fighter's path to victory lies on their backs, so establishing top-control and implementing your game from the beginning is paramount. If it's a close fight, it's because they spend rounds alternating that role. And based on Askren's wrestling background [I think he's ranked as one of the 10 best collegiate wrestlers ever] and his "I shoot for a takedown 3 seconds into a fight, and I usually get it because I'm a better wrestler than everyone at welterweight" history to start fights, it's safe to say he's got a better chance of pulling it off than Maia does. Their comparative martial arts backgrounds also supports the idea that Ben could stop Maia from taking him down than Maia could stop Askren.
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Sounds like a sherdoger when he said the IQ thing lol
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Is Rory not a top 5 WW in the world to you? Watch Rory-Lima, it appears you must of skipped it if you think RDA runs right over him.
