SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 131 - Withnail and I

Hello, firm young carrots! (oh, and you too @Tufts!)

I didn't expect the film to focus so heavily on the comedic terrors of potentially being buggered by a heavyset, cosmopolitan, fey gay man!

I thought it was fairly funny. Not being British, I guess I'm just not in the proper zeitgeist. But it was interesting throughout. The strengths of this movie were sort of like the strengths of Driller Killer, seeing strange, lived-in places accompanied by strange, lived-in people to match said places.

Honestly, when the protagonists point out that Uncle Monty is gay I was like "Wait... you mean that you and Whitnail aren't?":D

I wondered that too coz there was some homoerotismos going on. Guess they were just sensitive artist types and the director threw it in to make us wonder?
 
Hello, firm young carrots! (oh, and you too @Tufts!)

I love the inclusion!
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Drinking game for Withnail & I: Match the characters drink for drink, when the characters drink, you drink.

This involves nine and a half glasses of red wine, half a pint of cider, one shot of lighter fluid, two and a half shots of gin, six glasses of sherry, thirteen glasses of whisky and half a pint of ale.

Shoots! @Cubo de Sangre maybe the drinks woulda helped!
 
Maybe so, but you know I do my work on these things. Here is the comparison, coincidence? Maybe so, by worth mentioning.

1. Journey's End takes place over the course of 4 days in a bunker. Whitnail and I takes place over the course of 3 or 4 days in a cottage.
2. The character that dies and is left behind in Journey's End complains of being cold. Whitnail complains incessently of being cold.
3. Journey's End is filled with heavy drinking, they are in a war after all, Whitnail and I is filled with heavy drinking.
4. Journey's End was almost named "Waiting" or "suspense" which is what Whitnail and I are doing in their lives, they are in a state of waiting for something to happen with their acting.
5. Journey's End is the very thing that happens to Whitnail and I at the end of the film, they reach their Journey's End. In the book Ralaigh dies and Stanhope goes on to live his life. In the film "I" goes on with his life and Whitnail is left to his fate.

I was hoping you would go deep on Kalamakate’s drawing in Serpent. Why can’t we both get obsessed about the same films :( you went to get candy and never came back. And during Birdman u had ur back issues :( hope that is better!
 
I was struck by the way the film ended. I didn't start thinking about the book Journey's End until I saw "I" pack up and basically leave Whitnail behind. It could have easily been a situation where they both are still living together, or both get on the train together and leave, but they don't. "I" is leaving Whitnail behind and he is not returning. Whitnail is left holding a bottle of liquor in a rainstorm as he walks back to a flat he is being evicted from.

I was really taken by surprise the sadness of this ending especially considering it was a comedy. I've seen this happen to friends in real life, where one moves on and the other is left behind, there is a sense of realness to the end of Whitnail and I and the film would be less if not for the sad ending. As @Zer pointed out, Whitnail was talented, more talented than his friend, but for whatever reason his fate was much darker than his friends and he was left to it. I honestly thought the film was just o.k. until the end. The ending makes the film something else entirely, it elevates a nonsensical comedy to a study on life and friendship.

I actually liked the end. I found Whitnail to be somewhat annoying and not someone I would want as a friend once I had MY shit together. He abandoned I to get beat up at the bar and then did the same in front of the randy bull. He just seemed high maintenance and needy. I felt that if I woulda stayed with him or brought him along, he woulda held I back. Whitnail also sold I out to his uncle lying about his sexuality and their relationship so they could use the cottage. Yeah their relationship had it’s charm but it also had an expiration date. Maybe Monty would help Whitnail out in the future. He didn’t seem near as concerned about his career as I was. I was gonna make it on his own though.

BYW love that I was just I im the whole movie.
 
Boy, that film escalated on me at the very end. I'm watching it as a comedy and it does have some funny lines and happenings but the end turned it into something else for me. Whitnail and I is really sort of bleak in terms of what happens between friends when one of them moves on or makes it good in life and the other doesn't. The film title itself tells you that its from the perspective of "I", Whitnail and I. Obviously, at its heart, its a comedy but that ending, that god damned ending did something to me.

Generally when I watch films for the club I pay close attention to the props of the film, the artwork, posters, grafitti, books or magazines, obscure references, anything that will give me insight into what is really being said and directors almost always put these things in, even if subtle at times. About halfway through the film, "I" is reading a book that flashes on screen, clearly readable as Journey's End by R.C. Sheriff. Journey's end was published in 1929.

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Journey's End was also a 3 act play of the same name in 1929 starring Colin Clive and directed by James Whale, you may notice the bottle of booze sitting on the table next to Clive.

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Some variants of the book also have bottles of liquor on the table by a skull.

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The book is about several men's experiences in an officers dugout during WWI and takes place over a period of 4 days. Whitnail and I also seems to be about their journey, including an incredible amount of alcohol, and takes place over what appears to be 3 or 4 days. R.C. Sheriff considered called the book "Waiting" or "Suspense" but ended up calling it Journey's End which was from a line in an unidentified book.

It didn't occur to me that the end of the film was going to turn the way it did but after researching it some I think its far more brilliant than just a comedy about a couple of alcoholics misadventures. This is from a synopsis of Act 3 of Journey's End.

The German attack on the British trenches approaches, and the Sergeant Major tells Stanhope they should expect heavy losses. When it arrives, Hibbert is reluctant to get out of bed and into the trenches.

A message is relayed to Stanhope telling him that Raleigh has been injured by a shell and that his spine is damaged meaning that he can't move his legs. Stanhope orders that Raleigh be brought into his dugout. He comforts Raleigh while he lies in bed. Raleigh says that he is cold and that it is becoming dark; Stanhope moves the candle to his bed and goes deeper into the dugout to fetch a blanket, but, by the time he returns, Raleigh has died. The shells continue to explode in the background. Stanhope receives a message that he is needed. He gets up to leave and, after he has exited, a mortar hits the dugout causing it to collapse and entomb Raleigh's corpse.

Whitnail = Raleigh
"I" = Stanhope

Notice how Raleigh complains of being cold, just as Whitnail did. Stanhope ("I") stays with him as long as he can but Raleigh dies and Stanhope ends up leaving the dugout as it is destroyed by a bomb, entombing Raeigh. The end of Whitnail and I is a deadly death-strike to Whitnail, if not just the death of their friendship, the actual death of Whitnail that awaits him. He is an alcoholic, being evicted from his apartment, has no future, no money, and now his best friend "I" has moved on with his life, cutting his hair and moving on to something else.

"I" even tells Whitnail, I'm going to miss you. He and Whitnail know that this is the Journey's End. I enjoyed the comedy aspect of this film but in no way was prepared for the final 5 or 10 minutes.


Im a fan of intertextualitu so keep it up. I tend to think every single thing shown in a movie should be intentional, if not it screams laziness to me. It’s why I loved Lost so much.
 
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I mentioned earlier that I got a Midnight Cowboy vibe. Well, from the instant it started and that music was going with I just sitting there on the screen, I was actually expecting a somber, cynical comedy. Tonally, it actually wasn't like that, but it certainly starts in that direction and then it for sure ends on a somber note.

Yea I was wondering in the beginning why the somber note and then at the end it made a little more sense. Interesting that the opener is of "I" seemingly in reflection about something. The film has a great first act and a good 3rd act, its the middle that needed to be cut and reworked and you would have a pretty damn good movie.

I'm actually going to take Muster's side on this one. That inspiration/influence is entirely plausible to me.

Yea I don't know, obviously, how much of a connection there is between Withnail and I and Journey's End but there are some similarities and connections there. Even the name of the book, Journey's End, and the end of the film Withnail and I seem to match up idealistically pretty well. If the similarities between the book and the movie are just coincidence then they are pretty good ones.
 
About to start this and I see right at the top "A Paul Heller Production." The guy who co-produced Enter the Dragon with Fred Weintraub produced this?

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You know, I felt bad about being busy and not being able to watch Embrace of the Serpent, but now I'm not feeling so guilty.

(BTW: Just for us nerds, I had this behemoth published yesterday. It's the answer to all Barthesian/"death of the author"/poststructuralist/postmodernist bullshit :cool:)

On a serious note, I've tried not to breakdown and stream shit and have instead paid for OnDemand access to movies I couldn't get my hands on otherwise. I spent three and a half years living in the UK with just my laptop (because I'm cheap and lazy, not because they don't make TVs in the UK :D) and now that I have access once again to a glorious HD TV, I don't want to watch shit on my computer anymore. Then again, I'm also super cheap. I dropped ten bucks on Cinderella Man and Heredity and I really don't want to pay for Embrace of the Serpent. Such has been my SMC Sophie's choice.

I literally have Withnail & I on my computer at this very moment. Once I watch it and set that precedent, I'll just accept the reality of streaming and I'll watch Embrace of the Serpent sometime ahead of next week's Battle Royale.
HDMI cord?

And

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Over missing Serpent. I was looking forward to your commentary ;(
 
I was hoping you would go deep on Kalamakate’s drawing in Serpent. Why can’t we both get obsessed about the same films :( you went to get candy and never came back. And during Birdman u had ur back issues :( hope that is better!

I loved Birdman, I think its a pretty damn awesome film. As far as the Serpent, I had a ridiculously busy week that week and fully intended on getting into that but it just didn't work out.
 
I actually liked the end. I found Whitnail to be somewhat annoying and not someone I would want as a friend once I had MY shit together. He abandoned I to get beat up at the bar and then did the same in front of the randy bull. He just seemed high maintenance and needy. I felt that if I woulda stayed with him or brought him along, he woulda held I back. Whitnail also sold I out to his uncle lying about his sexuality and their relationship so they could use the cottage. Yeah their relationship had it’s charm but it also had an expiration date. Maybe Monty would help Whitnail out in the future. He didn’t seem near as concerned about his career as I was. I was gonna make it on his own though.

BYW love that I was just I im the whole movie.

The end was a bit of a shock to me, I just didn't see it coming and I don't think Withnail saw it coming either. I think it works as an ending because we've all known or experienced where two friends go in separate directions. Withnail's uncle Monty would be the only place he had to turn plus Monty was an alcoholic just like Withnail but I get this uneasy feeling that Withnail was destined to live a very hard life and die in a gutter on a cold winters night.
 
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Im a fan of intertextualitu so keep it up. I tend to think every single thing shown in a movie should be intentional, if not it screams laziness to me. It’s why I loved Lost so much.

A Chekhov's gun kind of gal then :p

Well of course I don't think the book was there by accident, there may some allusion, or 'intertextual discourse', I just didn't agree to the extent that Muster was making comparisons (just my opinion, I like Muster and his demons and am glad he delves into such depths, it offers a new take at the very least, and usually more than that).
 
I liked this film. It cracked me up quite a bit. Here are my favourite scenes/lines:

He puts a kettle on but then goes out for tea and then comes back and makes coffee in a soup bowl :confused:

There was some awesome whining. Made me realize I don’t dare people enough anymore:
I dare you. I dare you.
Why can’t I get an audition?
Why can’t I be on television?
I’m in a park and I’m practically dead. What good is the countryside?
It’s like Greenland in here!
I’m a trained actor reduced to the stage of a bum (foreshadowing!)
What happened to my cigar commercial. What happened to my agent?
Why has my head gone numb. I demand to have some booze.
Liar. U have antifreeze. You should never mix it drinks (after drinking the lighter fluid)

There were some funny excuses to avoid getting beat up:
I have a heart condition. It’s murder. My wife is having a baby. Lol

More quotes:
He’s had more drugs than you have had hot dinners
Carrots have character. Flowers are essentially tarts, prostitutes for the bees

Here is a deep thought I had halfway through: everything tha happens is so pointless that it makes u think that must be the point.

I enjoyed the portrayal of the lovely British weather. He had 2 minutes of no rain the following morning in the country followed by more rain. How do you forget your Wellies?!

More quotes:
We’ve gone on holiday by mistake!
Those are the kind of windows faces look in at
Well have to try and make friends w him...
It’s u he wants. Offer him yourself
As a youth I used to weep at butcher shops
I’m preparing myself to forgive u.
Are u a sponge or a stone? Is that sixties talk for being a top or a bottom? Methinks so!

Totally cracked up when the second cop histerically screamed: Get in the back of the van! Lol

Final favourite quote:
His name is Juan!
 
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It’s like Greenland in here!

You made me think about how strange it is that Greenland is like ice and Iceland is green.

Iceland
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Greenland
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The film has a great first act and a good 3rd act, its the middle that needed to be cut and reworked and you would have a pretty damn good movie.

The way the film is now is why it's a cult classic. If the middle would've been as good as the beginning and the ending, I think it would've blown right past "pretty damn good movie" and would've been an outstanding movie.

HDMI cord?

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I've done that before. I usually do it if I want to show a friend a fight on Fight Pass or something; instead of huddling around my computer, I just hook it up to the TV. But it frustrates my need for control. When I watch a movie, I always have the controls in my hand or at least within reach, either to pause or rewind or what have you. Same thing when I'm on my laptop. I like that ease of access. But if I hook my laptop up to my TV, then it's like I'm stuck in movie theater conditions unless I get up and walk over to the laptop (have I mentioned that I'm lazy?). Plus, I don't know much about technology, but I'm assuming that watching a movie directly on my TV or watching a Blu-ray are better options quality-wise than hooking up my laptop even if it's a decent stream, no?

And

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Over missing Serpent. I was looking forward to your commentary ;(

I haven't gone back over all the weeks that I've been a member, but I think the only movies that I've skipped so far were movies that I didn't vote for. Granted, I was legitimately busy, otherwise I would've watched them no problem, but since I didn't vote for them I didn't make that extra effort. Even though @Rimbaud82's my nerdy academic brother and I didn't like skipping his week, I just couldn't make it happen. Like I said, though, I'm hoping to be able to watch it over the weekend ahead of the Battle Royale, in which case you'll get some (very late) commentary after all :D
 
But if I hook my laptop up to my TV, then it's like I'm stuck in movie theater conditions unless I get up and walk over to the laptop (have I mentioned that I'm lazy?)

Bullitt when I was a kid you always had to get up to change the channel on the television. Its a good thing for us we only had about 5 channels. If you had a T.V. Guide you could at least look up whats on before you got up to go change the channel.

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Yes! Always wondered about that :)

Don't know how true it is but there is this.

When the Vikings arrived in Iceland they discovered that it held many resources and riches. They named it Iceland in order to discourage other people from settling there so that they could have it all to themselves. They named Greenland because it was barren and icy and so that people people would settle there instead.
 
You made me think about how strange it is that Greenland is like ice and Iceland is green.

Iceland
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Greenland
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I read once it was a trick by whoever discovered them (Vikings?) to fool other explorers into thinking Greenland was a tropical paradise or some shit so they wouldn't visit/invade Iceland

<[analyzed}>
 
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Before watching the movie I noticed the artwork is done by Ralph Steadman, who did all the artwork for Hunter S. Thompson's books and wrote a great book about their relationship as well. I googled Ralph Steadman Withnail and I, to see why Robinson chose Ralph and couldn't find an answer, but I did see that Robinson did the screenplay for The Rum Diary, another Hunter S. Thompson book turned into a movie. Robinson was clearly influenced by the work of Thompson and Steadman, and with the artwork he wears it on his sleeves.

In most of Thompsons best stories it's him and a friend, addled with drugs, surrounded by people that most would find innocent, but they find terrifying. The second scene in the movie (the one in the diner) was pure gonzo, reminiscent of Hunters description of the Kentucky Derby, or a Vegas casino, or a police convention. And also of a lesser version of the brilliant "breakfast on the train" scene from the start of Fistful of Dynamite, aka Duck You Sucker.

I really wanted to like it, but it was a bit slow for my tastes, and the story just wasn't there. I think the main problems for me were that the characters weren't likeable enough. And the bleakness of the story, and the mood of the characters worked against the comedy. With that being said the dialogue was very well done. There were memorable lines.

This may be the only movie I've seen use a live track on their soundtrack, the crowd noises confused me for a second. That was a weird choice, but I give him credit for trying. All along the Watchtower played for an unusually long time as well.

I was born in Britain so I'm familiar with the British comedy style, but I find, if you haven't watched it in a while it can take some getting used to, before you start laughing again. It can be pretty different from the American comedy style.

I didn't know the movie was autobiographical until I read the OP... at least now I don't feel bad for wondering what the point of it all was, ha.
 
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