Crime Maria Butina Pleads Guilty to Working on Behalf of the Kremlin Through the NRA

[panamaican]

Thanks.




Do you expect any charges against anyone from the NRA? Maybe this broad lied on her Visa or something so there's that, but the rest of it sounds like free speech.

It really depends on what the NRA brass knew, did, and/or overtly agreed to. My guess is that even if they did something wrong, it would be a bear to prove that it was intentionally done to benefit a foreign nation. So, probably no charges against anyone but I certainly don't know what the prosecutors know.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Yeah but think about this. The Dem's got tricked into giving up their information. These guys were intentionally trading access to our government for personal gain. You really think that's the same thing?

The grandson that loses his grandma's house because he didn't read the fine print is as bad as the grandson who sold her house so he could pocket the money for himself? Sure, grandma's on the street but the guy who did it intentionally is worse to me than the guy who got tricked.

when investigative journalism is largely a thing of the past, someone has to do it.....

There are no Woodwards and Bernsteins to discover Watergates, we now have hackers and WikiLeaks ostensibly as that main outlet.

I'm by no means saying that's a good thing, just that it IS. Since there (as of now) is no indication of any clear benefit Russia would have gained under this system (I mean the US just passed it as the world's largest producer of Gas and Oil), it seems like an ultra egregious example of killing the messenger, doesn't it?

If i'm being honest, it appears to me like Trump probably didn't think he would win, and then was likely using intermediaries to line up post election loss business activity (the real reason I think Bannon was there, also) and in that process found out about this information regarding the DNC and Hillary's private server.
edit: that being said, once all the intel comes out, I will gladly eat crow if it was more sinister than I am guessing it was

 

[A_bomb47]

The NRA and its ilk are all russian fetishists.

At first I thought that shirt was just a shitty joke but they sure showed they were serious by colluding and sucking Russian dick every time they get the chance.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

It really depends on what the NRA brass knew, did, and/or overtly agreed to. My guess is that even if they did something wrong, it would be a bear to prove that it was intentionally done to benefit a foreign nation. So, probably no charges against anyone but I certainly don't know what the prosecutors know.

I'd certainly be curious to know what the NRA's goals were. Helping the Russians just to help the Russians doesn't make much sense. Maybe they talked about import bans? Getting rid of those would be working on behalf of the American people.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I'd certainly be curious to know what the NRA's goals were. Helping the Russians just to help the Russians doesn't make much sense. Maybe they talked about import bans? Getting rid of those would be working on behalf of the American people.

want us to step our SKS game up?

I have no clue what Russia would 'get' from this other than destabilization. Pushing for further arming of the American populace, in theory, shouldn't be a goal of a supposed foreign adversary.....or a fascist regime for that matter haha

 

[panamaican]

when investigative journalism is largely a thing of the past, someone has to do it.....

There are no Woodwards and Bernsteins to discover Watergates, we now have hackers and WikiLeaks ostensibly as that main outlet.

I'm by no means saying that's a good thing, just that it IS. Since there (as of now) is no indication of any clear benefit Russia would have gained under this system (I mean the US just passed it as the world's largest producer of Gas and Oil), it seems like an ultra egregious example of killing the messenger, doesn't it?

If i'm being honest, it appears to me like Trump probably didn't think he would win, and then was likely using intermediaries to line up post election loss business activity (the real reason I think Bannon was there, also) and in that process found out about this information regarding the DNC and Hillary's private server.

No clear benefit to Russia? They hated Hillary Clinton and believed that they would receive more favorable treatment from anyone other than her. They wanted the sanctions gone, they wanted a lighter touch on international affairs, they wanted some influence in how we reach our decisions. Even if they can't articulate a specific policy goal, that's not the point of influence. The point of influence is be able to shape those outcomes for future events in your favor. And on the international geopolitical stage, even small shifts can have significant and lasting impacts.

And how anyone can bitch about MSM bias but pretend that WikiLeaks is a trustworthy and neutral source blows my mind. Months and months of "MSM doesn't tell you the whole story, they spin the news." followed by "That organization that I know nothing about, no one I know knows anyone there, they who have no accountability to me or my nation...I'm certain that they are telling me the whole story and never spin what they present." It's the biggest crock of shit.

I'm going to call it as I see it. People disliked Hillary Clinton so much that they simply did not care how she lost, even if it meant ignoring obvious signs of foreign government interference and attempting manipulation of the outcomes. They hated her more than they loved the sovereignty of their country. And everything after that is just trying to excuse it by pretending that all things are equal so that they don't have to face their own hypocrisy about the sanctity of sovereigty.

These are same people who'll scream and yell about the importance of nation-states on trade and border control to control who/what enters our nation while saying it's okay to shill for a foreign government. Nope, I can't cosign that bullshit.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

No clear benefit to Russia? They hated Hillary Clinton and believed that they would receive more favorable treatment from anyone other than her. They wanted the sanctions gone, they wanted a lighter touch on international affairs, they wanted some influence in how we reach our decisions. Even if they can't articulate a specific policy goal, that's not the point of influence. The point of influence is be able to shape those outcomes for future events in your favor. And on the international geopolitical stage, even small shifts can have significant and lasting impacts.

And how anyone can bitch about MSM bias but pretend that WikiLeaks is a trustworthy and neutral source blows my mind. Months and months of "MSM doesn't tell you the whole story, they spin the news." followed by "That organization that I know nothing about, no one I know knows anyone there, they who have no accountability to me or my nation...I'm certain that they are telling me the whole story and never spin what they present." It's the biggest crock of shit.

I'm going to call it as I see it. People disliked Hillary Clinton so much that they simply did not care how she lost, even if it meant ignoring obvious signs of foreign government interference and attempting manipulation of the outcomes. They hated her more than they loved the sovereignty of their country. And everything after that is just trying to excuse it by pretending that all things are equal so that they don't have to face their own hypocrisy about the sanctity of sovereigty.

These are same people who'll scream and yell about the importance of nation-states on trade and border control to control who/what enters our nation while saying it's okay to shill for a foreign government. Nope, I can't cosign that bullshit.

has WikiLeaks ever been proved to put out anything false?

even once?

b/c MSM retracts shit like every single day, just saying

 

[rearnakedchoke]

This keeps getting better and the trump lovers keep buying the excuses. I love it. Trump is bowing down to russia and saudis and taking it up the ass. His base are doing the same.

 

[JamesRussler]

I'm not a lawyer, but it was my impression that you had to register as the agent of a foreign power if you were working on behalf of one to influence American politics?

Butina has pleaded guilty to conspiracy to violate the laws governing foreign agents operating in the US (conspiracy against the US).
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/russian-operative-maria-butina-pleads-guilty-conspiracy-n947431
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/politics/maria-butina-guilty-plea/index.html


If you think it is a bullshit charge, I guess you should take it up with Butina's lawyers; they obviously thought pleading guilty to one count was the best they could do.

Well Lucky, I am indeed skeptical of any "muh Russia" panic from the Left. After all, I don't hear anyone on the Left calling for the heads of Dianne Feinstein, even though she employed a Chinese Spy for 2 decades, or Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, even though she let a Pakinstani criminal have unauthorized access to House servers, then threatened police in an effort to influence proceedings. So yeah, I my initial reaction is to roll my eyes at a headline like this.

That said, I'm open minded. Your OP didn't include any facts amounting to a crime, so I merely asked for some official Court filings. I went and found them on my own. Here they are:

• Court Docket for Original Case: https://timinhonolulu.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/docket-2.pdf
• Original Complaint and Affidavit: https://cryptome.org/2018/07/butina-001.pdf
• Returned Grand Jury Indictment: https://cryptome.org/2018/07/butina-007.pdf
• Motion to Deny Defendant Pretrial Release: http://wsj.com/public/resources/documents/butinadetention07182018.pdf?mod=article_inline
• Order Denying Defendant Pretrial Release: https://cryptome.org/2018/07/butina-015.pdf

Only trying to make your thread more informative, that's all

 

[panamaican]

Can anyone confirm if this is accurate.

@panamaican @luckyshot @Edison Carasio

when Trump was first starting his campaign, someone in the audience asked him how he felt about Russian sanctions. He predictably said he didn't like them, but that's not the weird part. The weird part is that the person in the audience was Maria Butina. And there's video of it.

Here ya go.

 

[hillelslovak87]

At first I thought that shirt was just a shitty joke but they sure showed they were serious by colluding and sucking Russian dick every time they get the chance.

It's funny when the rubes who support a nationalist insist they would rather be Russians than Americans. the stupidity and irony in combo is EXTREEEEEEME!!!!!

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

want us to step our SKS game up?

I have no clue what Russia would 'get' from this other than destabilization.

You dont think destabilizing their greatest adversary is enough on its own?

 

[hillelslovak87]

Well Lucky, I am indeed skeptical of any "muh Russia" panic from the Left. After all, I don't hear anyone on the Left calling for the heads of Dianne Feinstein, even though she employed a Chinese Spy for 2 decades, or Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, even though she let a Pakinstani criminal have unauthorized access to House servers, then threatened police in an effort to influence proceedings. So yeah, I my initial reaction is to roll my eyes at a headline like this.

That said, I'm open minded. Your OP didn't include any facts amounting to a crime, so I merely asked for some official Court filings. I went and found them on my own. Here they are:

• Court Docket for Original Case: https://timinhonolulu.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/docket-2.pdf
• Original Complaint and Affidavit: https://cryptome.org/2018/07/butina-001.pdf
• Returned Grand Jury Indictment: https://cryptome.org/2018/07/butina-007.pdf
• Motion to Deny Defendant Pretrial Release: http://wsj.com/public/resources/documents/butinadetention07182018.pdf?mod=article_inline
• Order Denying Defendant Pretrial Release: https://cryptome.org/2018/07/butina-015.pdf

Only trying to make your thread more informative, that's all

How about if an elected or appointed official commits a crime, we throw the fucking book at them, regardless of their affiliations?

You guys keep assuming that acknowledgement of Trump being a criminal conman somehow means we looooove Hilary Clinton or something.

Dualism is the fool's fulcrum.

 

[panamaican]

I'd certainly be curious to know what the NRA's goals were. Helping the Russians just to help the Russians doesn't make much sense. Maybe they talked about import bans? Getting rid of those would be working on behalf of the American people.

They had no goals relative to the U.S. They were looking for a foothold in Russia. They used her to get into Russia, she used them to get to American politicians.

Basically, the Russians set up a pro-guns group in Russia and then played on the NRA's ego. They asked the NRA to help them protect gun rights in Russia. Then they used the relationship to access politicians in the U.S.

Here's an article from 2016 before the Maria Butina link to the Russian government was exposed.
https://thinkprogress.org/nra-and-russian-cousin-18f607d40240/

 

[Limbo Pete]

No clear benefit to Russia? They hated Hillary Clinton and believed that they would receive more favorable treatment from anyone other than her. They wanted the sanctions gone, they wanted a lighter touch on international affairs, they wanted some influence in how we reach our decisions. Even if they can't articulate a specific policy goal, that's not the point of influence. The point of influence is be able to shape those outcomes for future events in your favor. And on the international geopolitical stage, even small shifts can have significant and lasting impacts.

And how anyone can bitch about MSM bias but pretend that WikiLeaks is a trustworthy and neutral source blows my mind. Months and months of "MSM doesn't tell you the whole story, they spin the news." followed by "That organization that I know nothing about, no one I know knows anyone there, they who have no accountability to me or my nation...I'm certain that they are telling me the whole story and never spin what they present." It's the biggest crock of shit.

I'm going to call it as I see it. People disliked Hillary Clinton so much that they simply did not care how she lost, even if it meant ignoring obvious signs of foreign government interference and attempting manipulation of the outcomes. They hated her more than they loved the sovereignty of their country. And everything after that is just trying to excuse it by pretending that all things are equal so that they don't have to face their own hypocrisy about the sanctity of sovereigty.

These are same people who'll scream and yell about the importance of nation-states on trade and border control to control who/what enters our nation while saying it's okay to shill for a foreign government. Nope, I can't cosign that bullshit.

I think it's absolutely incredible that Russia managed to compromise the GOP, what with them being mortal, dire nemesis for decades. The entirety of the Cold War was conservative America being freaked the fuck out about those god damn Russians infiltrating our freedom... and now here we are.
They were always several steps ahead of our intelligence and counter-intelligence apparatus, but this is just non-stop impressive to me. I think it really shows how hard of a shift has occurred on one side of the spectrum when certain elements of our conservative politics actively court Russian meddling in our institutions and society. Absolutely unthinkable 50 years ago, and a scandal of huge proportions just 20-25 years ago. I'm no fan of Reagan, but he's spinning in his grave like a top.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

You dont think destabilizing their greatest adversary is enough on its own?

Fair enough, if the NRA (which didn't appear to have a STRONGER effect than in the past elections, they seem to be losing clout if anything) actually did anything to 'destabilize' the US

 

[WaylonMercy5150]

No, her offense was not a failure to register her activities. Not registering turned her activities into crimes. She didn't register her intentions. Not a crime. She proceeded to act while knowing that she wasn't registered - that is a crime.

You can try to downplay it but I don't know why. This law exists so that we can prosecute foreign spies on our soil.

But I get it. This is in keeping with the sad theme of trumpeting "Protect our nation and our sovereignty" while whispering "Our nation's sovereign integrity doesn't really matter if it's sold for the right price." Lotta Benedict Arnold sympathizers out there. You guys probably would have shot Paul Revere's horse to keep him from riding out, lol.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I think it's absolutely incredible that Russia managed to compromise the GOP, what with them being mortal, dire nemesis for decades. The entirety of the Cold War was conservative America being freaked the fuck out about those god damn Russians infiltrating our freedom... and now here we are.
They were always several steps ahead of our intelligence and counter-intelligence apparatus, but this is just non-stop impressive to me. I think it really shows how hard of a shift has occurred on one side of the spectrum when certain elements of our conservative politics actively court Russian meddling in our institutions and society. Absolutely unthinkable 50 years ago, and a scandal of huge proportions just 20-25 years ago. I'm no fan of Reagan, but he's spinning in his grave like a top.

All good pts, but to consider (just spitballing here):
Russia is still ostensibly opposed to China/N. Korea, and they certainly seem to fit w/ the older GOP regarding Identity Politics

Given that we are the two largest producers of oil/gas in the world, I could theoretically see them thinking we could form some cabal to rival OPEC or something and inflate/deflate oil prices as they see fit. Russia, afterall, does provide Europe with much/most of its oil/gas.

Also, militarily they are a joke compared to us now especially in regards to usable equipment, so the former threat isn't really a physical threat anymore

 

[panamaican]

has WikiLeaks ever been proved to put out anything false?

even once?

b/c MSM retracts shit like every single day, just saying

Stop, I'm not the one.

You can state with certainty that WikiLeaks has always presented you with both sides of a major issue? You are 100% certain that they do not withhold information from the public?

 

[Limbo Pete]

Having Russian agents compromising our politicians is like some guy losing a poker game at a mob table. The people in here defending or mitigating this shit are basically saying "Hey, it's only $200 bucks I owe them. What's the big deal?"