Social Pitbull Attack thread

[SammyPops]

Pitbull defender calls someone else ignorant = priceless

P.S., LOL at your personal experience being all you know.

While I haven't dedicated a ton of tiem to this, I've spent some. Read the new Yorker article back when Ontario banned the breed, read Bandit and Dickey's book.

I assume you believe what the local news tells you? Have you looked deeper, or are you one of those people who doesn't need to b/c you already know?

 

[Kowboy Karl]

Pits can be great dogs as well as dangerous dogs

Mine of 12 years was stolen by my mom.... a dog hater , because he was so sweet and lovable at 5 years.

The dog died 6 years ago.

In that amount of time I’ve realized pure bred Americans are now too stupid to be trusted with responsibilities and the breed should be at best required to be owned by licensed trained certified dog owners(there prolly isn’t such a thing) or just outlawed all together in major cities.

Same thing with guns. Either get people required to understand how to safely own one or just get Rid of em all.

 

[shockaholic12]

Dumb, again. Small dogs naturally occur without any breeding. We don't breed midgets guy. If you did breed midgets, you would get more midgets.

Where is the wolf that mauls a member of their pack? Not competition, but mauling. Show it to me. Show me proof a wolf has ever mauled a member of their own pack.

Even when competing for a mate, a wolf will get run off, not killed.

You are full of shit. Your problem with pits has to do with them being physically more capable. You tell the lie about breeding death monsters because you want them banned, and you know people won't support banning them because they are physically more capable.

This selective breeding subject is over your head.

Toy cup sized dogs are not found in the wild as a result of natural selection dummy. Sure there was the mutation that lead
to some wolves being smaller, but please show me an adult wolf or even a closer relative like a wild dog that is 1 kg full grown. They got all these different breeds of dogs to become so drastically different through SELECTIVE breeding. Where you select that naturally occurring trait and breed for it while also breeding to remove all the other genes that conflict with your goal.

Wolves have killed over wolves, other separate pack members, satellite pack members, etc. It’s rare, their aggressive traits are usually short of mauling, because they have been genetically designed to be cooperative to survive and fighting that hard in the wild leads to fatal injuries.

Now if you wanted to make as much money getting a generic relative of a wolf to fight others of its own species you’d want to selective breed for the trait that makes them aggressive, and select against against the behavioral traits that make them cooperative or hesitant to do things that could or are injuring it. “Gameness” is a behavioral trait developed in working a fighting dogs that makes them enthusiastic to carry out either their work or fighting despite the risk injury that would deter a wild animal.

Go to a dog park, observe, we aren’t dealing with wolves here. We have created things that are much, much different than their ancestors.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Not dumb. It's jr. high level biology really. Not hard to understand.

First, we aren't teaching a human bird tricks that call for different limbs. You're way off with your metaphor. Wolves are predators and social animals that fight amongst each other from birth as part of the social dynamic. Aggression is already in their genes as a trait that could be exploited for things like dog fighting down the line if selective breeding for it is used.

And second, you clearly can go against a million years of evolution using selective breeding. Have you every seen a 1 kg Chihuahua? If left to natural gene mutations, not selective breeding, it'd probably take more than a million years to go from a wolf to something that drastically different, but how long did it take selective breeding to achieve this drastic, drastic transformation? Not long at all.

You are talking to a nutter. Let it go as there is no point. No one, and I mean no one, on the leading Pitbull websites would try and deny he selective breeding that the breed was exposed to for generations and how that aspect of focusing on 'gameness or aggression' has made Pitbulls a more unique and more challenging breed to deal with than most other breeds. if you find someone denying that, then just move on and talk to the more reasonable folks.

 

[VivaRevolution]

This selective breeding subject is over your head.

Toy cup sized dogs are not found in the wild as a result of natural selection dummy. Sure there was the mutation that lead
to some wolves being smaller, but please show me an adult wolf or even a closer relative like a wild dog that is 1 kg full grown. They got all these different breeds of dogs to become so drastically different through SELECTIVE breeding. Where you select that naturally occurring trait and breed for it while also breeding to remove all the other genes that conflict with your goal.

Wolves have killed over wolves, other separate pack members, satellite pack members, etc. It’s rare, their aggressive traits are usually short of mauling, because they have been genetically designed to be cooperative to survive and fighting that hard in the wild leads to fatal injuries.

Now if you wanted to make as much money getting a generic relative of a wolf to fight others of its own species you’d want to selective breed for the trait that makes them aggressive, and select against against the behavioral traits that make them cooperative or hesitant to do things that could or are injuring it. “Gameness” is a behavioral trait developed in working a fighting dogs that makes them enthusiastic to carry out either their work or fighting despite the risk injury that would deter a wild animal.

Go to a dog park, observe, we aren’t dealing with wolves here. We have created things that are much, much different than their ancestors.

Honest question instead of this bullshit.

Why arent you advocating for a 1,000$ training class and pitbull registration?

It would take most of the pits out of people's hands that shouldn't have them.

You would be doing the pits a favor too.

 

[shockaholic12]

Honest question instead of this bullshit.

Why arent you advocating for a 1,000$ training class and pitbull registration?

It would take most of the pits out of people's hands that shouldn't have them.

You would be doing the pits a favor too.

This would certainly help the matter greatly, and I'd go this route over no action at all, but I don't know if it's the answer.

Like I mentioned before, I don't believe any amount of training from some humans will continually and reliably override the pitbull genetic behavioral traits. No animals behavior is derided 100% from training, genetics play a big role too. A training class aint changing how their brains are wired.

Most of them will be fine their whole lives, and some could be a great dog 99.9% of it's life but in one setting. The issue is when they slip up, the times their breeding influences their behavior in a violently aggressive manner, usually ends in catastrophic results. A local kid or granny gets their flesh ripped to ribbons as they are mauled and die in a one of the most horrific manners possible. Not even close to worth it for a fucking pet animal. It's that simple, this animal doesn't belong as a family pets walking around town. The risk is too high, no one should be chewed to death because someone wanted to keep a creature bred into existence to fight, maim, and kill, as a fucking pet.

 

[VivaRevolution]

This would certainly help the matter greatly, and I'd go this route over no action at all, but I don't know if it's the answer.

Like I mentioned before, I don't believe any amount of training from some humans will continually and reliably override the pitbull genetic behavioral traits. No animals behavior is derided 100% from training, genetics play a big role too. A training class aint changing how their brains are wired.

Most of them will be fine their whole lives, and some could be a great dog 99.9% of it's life but in one setting. The issue is when they slip up, the times their breeding influences their behavior in a violently aggressive manner, usually ends in catastrophic results. A local kid or granny gets their flesh ripped to ribbons as they are mauled and die in a one of the most horrific manners possible. Not even close to worth it for a fucking pet animal. It's that simple, this animal doesn't belong as a family pets walking around town. The risk is too high, no one should be chewed to death because someone wanted to keep a creature bred into existence to fight, maim, and kill, as a fucking pet.

This is what kills me. You are so wrong on this.

Someone compared me to the idiot who went to live with bears.

You can actually go live with wolves. You just have to get them to accept you into their pack. Wolves aren't domesticated.

I promise you that a wolf is far more unpredictable than a pitbull.

 

[shockaholic12]

This is what kills me. You are so wrong on this.

Someone compared me to the idiot who went to live with bears.

You can actually go live with wolves. You just have to get them to accept you into their pack. Wolves aren't domesticated.

I promise you that a wolf is far more unpredictable than a pitbull.

I'm wrong about what? Training not being a complete override of genetic behavioral traits? It's always the owners fault is a terrible argument that ignores basic science.

 

[lfd0311]

I'm going to say you should move somewhere with a HOA that bans "pitbulls".

Dogs are dogs. If your argument began and ended at pitbulls are more dangerous because they do more damage when they attack, we could have an honest debate. But instead you insist on this ridiculous trope that pitbulls are inherently unhinged animals. That they aren't at their core a domesticated wolf, like all domesticated dog breeds.

Because they are.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I'm wrong about what? Training not being a complete override of genetic behavioral traits?

That you could ever breed a trait that would over ride their pack trait.

A pitbull raised properly from birth, is not a danger to a member of their pack.


Their is nothing wrong with wanting to own a dog that protects your pack, from outsiders.

I know pitbulls are dangerous when they encounter people outside their pack. That should never happen without their alpha around.

I don't understand why you insist on punishing responsible pitbull owners, especially when exotic animal licences exist.

Let me ask you this. Should trained attack German Shepards be illegal? They have been trained to be aggressive.

 

[SammyPops]

You are talking to a nutter. Let it go as there is no point. No one, and I mean no one, on the leading Pitbull websites would try and deny he selective breeding that the breed was exposed to for generations and how that aspect of focusing on 'gameness or aggression' has made Pitbulls a more unique and more challenging breed to deal with than most other breeds. if you find someone denying that, then just move on and talk to the more reasonable folks.

So you believe that 40-60lb pitbulls that were bred for generatiosn to fight other dogs pose a greater challenge than lets say the South African Mastiff, a 150-200lb dog bred for generations for protection against both alpha predators and humans?

Or how about the Presa, a 150lb dog bred for generations to hunt/control human slaves and sufficent prey drive to hunt wild pigs and such?

I'm not trying to troll, but do you feel this way only about pitbulls and not the dozen of other, lrger, more dangerous dogs?

 

[shockaholic12]

That you could ever breed a trait that would over ride their pack trait.

A pitbull raised properly from birth, is not a danger to a member of their pack.


Their is nothing wrong with wanting to own a dog that protects your pack, from outsiders.

I know pitbulls are dangerous when they encounter people outside their pack. That should never happen without their alpha around.

I don't understand why you insist on punishing responsible pitbull owners, especially when exotic animal licences exist
Let me ask you this. Should trained attack German Shepard be illegal? They have been trained to be aggressive.

It's actually pretty easy to grasp. "Gameness" is a trait that doesn't exists in wild wolves, because it is not conducive to their survival as wild pack animals. Right? And if natural selection is the only catalyst there's not reason for them to develop that level of aggression. They can be aggressive up to even killing but natural selection stopped them short of being "game" because it would frequently get them killed.

Then men wanted to make money off dogs fighting and selective breeding is such a powerful tool that dog can be bred into existence that is aggressive to the point it is behaving against what is conducive to survival in pack. When other factors besides natural selection are at hand things like aggression can totally be turned way up, and things like pack cooperation can fall back.

Pits attack and kill their owners, they attack their owners other dogs. These pack behavior you seem to think is invincible to selective breeding is in fact far, far from it. Clearly.

It doesn't belong as a pet. I don't care if you feel you are responsible, because the dog is it's own creature who doesn't always behave how it's been trained to.

 

[VivaRevolution]

It's actually pretty easy to grasp. "Gameness" is a trait that doesn't exists in wild wolves, because it is not conducive to their survival as wild pack animals. Right? And if natural selection is the only catalyst there's not reason for them to develop that level of aggression. They can be aggressive up to even killing but natural selection stopped them short of being "game" because it would frequently get them killed.

Then men wanted to make money off dogs fighting and selective breeding is such a powerful tool that dog can be bred into existence that is aggressive to the point it is the behaving the against what is conducive to survival in pack. When other factors besides natural selection are at hand things like aggression can totally be turned way up, and things like pack cooperation can fall back.

Pits attack and kill their owners, they attack their owners other dogs. These pack behavior you seem to think is invincible to selective breeding is in fact far, far from it. Clearly.

It doesn't belong as a pet. I don't care if you feel you are responsible, because the dog is it's own creature who doesn't always behave how it's been trained to.

You can't breed gamness to mean attacking a member of their own pack. Your insistence other wise really is the insistence that you can fuck a bird, and have a flying baby.

 

[SammyPops]

I'm wrong about what? Training not being a complete override of genetic behavioral traits? It's always the owners fault is a terrible argument that ignores basic science.

Last tiem I read about this, researchers have identified genes for physical traits but not for those non-physical traits such as protection or retrieving that we all 'think/know' have been bred into dogs.

Is there any evidence to your claim?

 

[shockaholic12]

You can't breed gamness to mean attacking a member of their own pack. Your insistence other wise really is the insistence that you can fuck a bird, and have a flying baby.

Why can't you? Give some real evidence that this cooperative trait can never be effected through selective breeding. Are you just making up this super trait that can never be diminished for some unexplained scientific reason?

And define who encompasses a pit's pack. It's owner? Owner's family members? The other dogs it lives with? They've attacked all of the above.

But it doesn't matter because a dog that will be aggressive to members outside of whatever pack you are referring to, to the point of maiming and fatal attacks each year, doesn't belong as a pet in our society.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Why can't you? Give some real evidence that this cooperative trait can never be effected through selective breeding. Are you just making up this super trait that can never be diminished for some unexplained scientific reason?

And define who encompasses a pit's pack. It's owner? Owner's family members? The other dogs it lives with? They've attacked all of the above.

But it doesn't matter because a dog that will be aggressive to members outside of whatever pack you are referring to, to the point of maiming and fatal attacks each year, doesn't belong as a pet in our society.

See, here is your flaw. You think because something is dangerous, you have a right to take it from them.

Fuck you fascist.

 

[shockaholic12]

Last tiem I read about this, researchers have identified genes for physical traits but not for those non-physical traits such as protection or retrieving that we all 'think/know' have been bred into dogs.

Is there any evidence to your claim?

Evidence that selective breeding for different behavioral traits in different breeds such as hunting dogs and herding dogs is successful? There's plenty of that.

Evidence a biologist has pointed out the exact gene responsible for a certain behavior I don't have.

 

[shockaholic12]

See, here is your flaw. You think because something is dangerous, you have a right to take it from them.

Fuck you fascist.

Well, at least now you've admitted they are dangerous. It's a start.

If something is chewing members of society to death on a yearly basis, yeah society has the right to regulate it. Crazy notion I know, only Hitler could have thought of it. You should totally spazz out over it.

 

[lfd0311]

While I haven't dedicated a ton of tiem to this, I've spent some. Read the new Yorker article back when Ontario banned the breed, read Bandit and Dickey's book.

I assume you believe what the local news tells you? Have you looked deeper, or are you one of those people who doesn't need to b/c you already know?

SOOOO... You... haven't dedicated a bunch of time... and assume that I haven't either? Classic "Pitbull Defender prememptively distancing himself from the owning about to take place" nonsense on every level.

 

[SammyPops]

Evidence that selective breeding for different behavioral traits in different breeds such as hunting dogs and herding dogs is successful? There's plenty of that.

Evidence a biologist has pointed out the exact gene responsible for a certain behavior I don't have.

Interesting how science has identified, for example, the gene that dictates a dog's size and so many other physical traits, but (as I understand) zero genes relating to non-physical traits have been identified.

I do believe we've bred certain traits inot dogs, but I think its way over emphasized. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but finding a legit driven dog at what its supposed to do is quite difficult.

Aslo, these breed specific traits are often more common among many other breeds.