Cop who slaughtered Eric Garner sues NYPD

[Trotsky]

Alright, I see your points even if I disagree with you. Murder, to me indicates premeditation and intent. However, as I'm no lawyer let's get some professional opinions in here.
@Trotsky @panamaican @Quipling

Murder or not?

Just to be clear, I'm not even defending the cop not do It think he should get his job back. My interest here is establishing a baseline as it comes to word usage so we're all on the same page when communicating. I'm open to correction, in other words.

The Merchant has it right. Deliberation is not a requirement for murder. It (or premeditation or other words depending on jurisdiction) is only required for first degree murder or the like.

This guy would not be likely to get convicted of murder in either case. But, regardless, words can have separate meanings colloquially, legally, and across cultures and legal systems. For instance, "rape" is defined differently in different states and, in one, might not apply in cases of non-forcible or non-aggravated intercourse, like with a sleeping person, an invalid, or a child. Yet, I dare say you wouldn't pop into a thread about a guy banging kids and say "well, actually, that's only deviant sexual assault, not rape." So it comes off as pedantry tbh.

 

[Bald1]

The Merchant has it right. Deliberation is not a requirement for murder. It (or premeditation or other words depending on jurisdiction) is only required for first degree murder or the like.

This guy would not be likely to get convicted of murder in either case. But, regardless, words can have separate meanings colloquially, legally, and across cultures and legal systems. For instance, "rape" is defined differently in different states and, in one, might not apply in cases of non-forcible or non-aggravated intercourse, like with a sleeping person, an invalid, or a child. Yet, I dare say you wouldn't pop into a thread about a guy banging kids and say "well, actually, that's only deviant sexual assault, not rape." So it comes off as pedantry tbh.

Fair enough. Thanks.

 

[west42]

...

 

[nhbbear]

“Slaughtered?” Please. He had the guy in a momentary rear naked and then let go as they struggled. Not even close to a slaughter.

 

[HunterAcosta]

This seems like it would be common sense, but for some reason it's not to cops.
I watch these videos of cops subduing people, and it's like literally 3 200+ lb guys with their knees and full weight holding a guy down face first on asphalt.
Common sense kind of dictates that it'd be difficult to breathe or stay calm with that much pressure laid on you..now if the person has asthma or some kind of other medical condition, the potential for shit to get deadly quickly escalates.
Once the guy is in cuffs and on the ground what is the great danger he poses where you and 4 other able bodied people can't watch the guy?

This all day. I am a brown belt in bjj and worked in a mental hospital. I have training and some of the dudes I worked with had wrestling or bjj training when we had to restrain a crazy. BUT..the worst to work with besides the scaredy cats, were the dudes who used way too much force for the situation and often escalated it. Theres a time and place to go balls to the wall if youre lifes on the line, but most of time , with dudes around you to help, its not needed. Restrain within the level of their resistance. Guys who i worked with who had training were the best cause they had my back, but also wouldnt make a situation worse and would use appropriate force. They gave us some bullshit training in the hosptial but is was wrist lock bullshit and stuff that didnt work. I wish all cops were at least blue belts in bjj and had wrestling and judo training. And had some fucking empathy.

 

[panamaican]

Alright, I see your points even if I disagree with you. Murder, to me indicates premeditation and intent. However, as I'm no lawyer let's get some professional opinions in here.
@Trotsky @panamaican @Quipling

Murder or not?

Just to be clear, I'm not even defending the cop not do It think he should get his job back. My interest here is establishing a baseline as it comes to word usage so we're all on the same page when communicating. I'm open to correction, in other words.

Depending on jurisdiction, you can have murder without premeditation. Premeditation just requires a minimal of planning. But you can have murder where there was intent but no planning (such as intentionally implementing a deadly and illegal chokehold knowing that it can result in death).

 

[TripleAz]

Damn socialist cop training kills an "innocent" man

 

[Bargey]

for his job back



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...er-s-chokehold-death-daniel-pantaleo-n1071076

Fuck him. He deserved far worse than being fired

 

[Too Rolling Stoned]

Sounds like he has no shot since they had cut & dry cause to fire him due to the chokehold.

One thing I hope people take from the Garner arrest is that often, people can indeed say "I can't breathe" when they are in life-threatening respiratory distress. I've witnessed this in person multiple times. Listen to people when they say that, and don't put pressure on their chest or stuff them face down.

The main thing to take away from this case is:

1. Don’t break the law
2. Comply with law enforcement

Garner would’ve still been alive if he had followed either of those.

 

[Confucamus]

"Slaughtered"?

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Hey, if you're an obese fatty with a lengthy history of being arrested, it's on you when you choose to resist.

 

[cincymma79]

Depending on jurisdiction, you can have murder without premeditation. Premeditation just requires a minimal of planning. But you can have murder where there was intent but no planning (such as intentionally implementing a deadly and illegal chokehold knowing that it can result in death).

It’s not illegal to use a choke hold though. It is against policy in New York for police.

 

[cincymma79]

The main thing to take away from this case is:

1. Don’t break the law
2. Comply with law enforcement

Garner would’ve still been alive if he had followed either of those.

It is a real loss for society that he isn’t around any more

 

[Mr Holmes]

your definition makes him a murderer. He maintained a chokehold despite not being in any physical duress himself and maintained it until a man died.

The choke hold was released long before the man died.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

For some reason, there seems to be this line of thinking that criminal resistors should be able to use more force to escape an arrest than police can use to effect one.

 

[HereticBD]

why even rush and take down a guy selling loose cigs in the first place, nevermind the chokehold

They didn't take him down for selling loosies. They took him down for resisting arrest. If you resist arrest, you're gonna get your shit pushed in. Every. Single. Time. Doubly so if you're a 300lb monster with a rap sheet. The cops don't fuck around, and you're not gong to win that battle anyways, so it's best just to comply.

 

[Deleted member 539235]

Hey, if you're an obese fatty with a lengthy history of being arrested, it's on you when you choose to resist.

For some reason, there seems to be this line of thinking that criminal resistors should be able to use more force to escape an arrest than police can use to effect one.

try refreshing your memory by watching the video again, he hardly has a chance to resist at all before he's taken down

plus, y'know....he was killed over cigarettes you bootlicking psycho

 

[Deleted member 539235]

They didn't take him down for selling loosies. They took him down for resisting arrest. If you resist arrest, you're gonna get your shit pushed in. Every. Single. Time. Doubly so if you're a 300lb monster with a rap sheet. The cops don't fuck around, and you're not gong to win that battle anyways, so it's best just to comply.

you can also go watch the video again for me, then answer this question;

which tastes better, black or brown boots?

 

[franklinstower]

why even rush and take down a guy selling loose cigs in the first place, nevermind the chokehold

Guy is barely getting by selling cigarettes for a living. I say leave him alone and let him scrape out an existence FFS.

 

[HereticBD]

you can also go watch the video again for me, then answer this question;

I've seen the video. The same one that shows Garner physically pushing the cops' hands away as they go in to detain him. That's called "resisting arrest", skippy.

which tastes better, black or brown boots?

Likely a lot better than criminal dick.