Khabib's single biggest win (and it isn't close)

MJ and Barboza were never considered wrestle killers. Khabib was actually the big favourite to win both those fights and the vast majority of posters in here knew he would run them over.

And are you seriously shitting on the UFC for trying hard to make the Khabib/Ferguson fight happen? We all screamed for that fight.

Terrible thread.
Edson was absolutely considered a wrestler killer at the time. All his losses sans Tony were against strikers. He beat Castillo, Dunham, Melendez, and Dariush by killing their wrestling and beating them up on the feet. That was his MO for the longest.

Mj struggled on the ground but he had very good TD defense at the time. Some of the highest in the division.

I don't blame the ufc for trying to make the Tony fight because Khabib also wanted that fight.
 
Way too long to read but imo Khabib took a loooong time to the title because the guy keeps getting injured or weight cut issues, which is no surprise given how he always goes all out in training and cuts a ridiculous amount of weight for a size advantage
 
Edson was absolutely considered a wrestler killer at the time. All his losses sans Tony were against strikers. He beat Castillo, Dunham, Melendez, and Dariush by killing their wrestling and beating them up on the feet. That was his MO for the longest.

Mj struggled on the ground but he had very good TD defense at the time. Some of the highest in the division.

I don't blame the ufc for trying to make the Tony fight because Khabib also wanted that fight.
Wrong. Dunham was never a good wrestler and he got TKO'd before any grappling took place. Gilbert never pressured Edson and wasn't a threat with takedowns. Castillo never tried to take Edson down because he wrecked him on the feet and was headhunting the whole fight. Great fight actually. Have you even watched these fights or did you go wiki on me just now? C'mon.

The big criticism with Barboza was (still is) that pressure was the blueprint to beat him. He never faced a wrestler of Khabibs caliber before they fought so the general prediction was that Khabib, a wrestler with insane pressure, would run right through Edson.

And MJ? C'mon lol. Whenever that dude got taken down he looked like a fish out of water. Before facing Khabib most of his losses were via wrestlefuck.
 
Wrong. Dunham was never a good wrestler and he got TKO'd before any grappling took place. Gilbert never pressured Edson and wasn't a threat with takedowns. Castillo never tried to take Edson down because he wrecked him on the feet and was headhunting the whole fight. Great fight actually. Have you even watched these fights or did you go wiki on me just now? C'mon.

The big criticism with Barboza was (still is) that pressure was the blueprint to beat him. He never faced a wrestler of Khabibs caliber before they fought so the general prediction was that Khabib, a wrestler with insane pressure, would run right through Edson.

And MJ? C'mon lol. Whenever that dude got taken down he looked like a fish out of water. Before facing Khabib most of his losses were via wrestlefuck.
Lol Dunham is a solid wrestler. Best not the best in the division but he was always solid. He went for an early TD which Edson stuffed before knocking him out.

Melendez was ABSOLUTELY a takedown threat. He successfully imposed is wrestling against the vast majority of his opponents up to that point but couldn't against st Edson.

I have not rewatched the Castillo fight in years but I remember Castillo trying to bring the fight down in the 2nd(?) I'll have to check tho.

Edson also did the same to Bobby Green who id forgotten.

Hell, even now, Edson does well defending against grapplers. He's a good anti wrestler and always has been. Pressure in general, not pressure wrestling specifically, was the problem.

And read my post again dude. There is a difference between takedown defense and submission defense. MJ had great TDD but trash bjj. A lot like Gaethje. Getting hi. Down takes work but once he's down its simple
 
Castillo never tried to take Edson down because he wrecked him on the feet and was headhunting the whole fight. Great fight actually. Have you even watched these fights or did you go wiki on me just now?
I'm rewatching thus fight now and you are full of shit. Castillo is going for TDs in every single round. He went 1 for 10!

You need to rewatch that shit.
 
I also remember Dana drinking a shot with Conor during a presser. Conor's whiskey logo plastered on the octagon. This was all done when Conor is fighting someone that does not drink for religious reasons. I thought it was very unfair for the UFC to do this. UFC should have promoted both fighters, they were 100% siding with Conor.
 
Herb is inconsistent as fuck and obviously overworked, but I doubt he was fixing the fight. He could have easily stood the fight up like Mirgliota did against Woodley and Till/Vitor Johnson. In retrospect Conor could just as easily have been trying to draw a foul so he could get a break and a stand up. Or a DQ to save face because technically it's not a "loss".
 
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His most impressive MMA win technically speaking I believe was against Dustin. But that wasn't his most impressive career win. His most impressive career win was against WME UFC. When a 4+ billion company makes it their sole intent to ensure you can't reach the top, and you not only reach it but break through the ceiling imposed on you... that is something that has only happened once in this sport's history (though I hope it happens again).

Brief recap on how massive of a task this was:
1. Matchmaking was rigged from the start. They needed Khabib (and Tony) gone. That's why they kept trying to have them pick each other off, and why they could amass the longest-ever contender streaks (and doing it in the deepest division) without getting title shots. Before Khabib haters shifted to the "he never fought a wrestler" meme they embraced the "Khabib never fought a striker" approach. People forget the perceptions around MJ and Barboza at the time Khabib was matched against them... they were perceived to be wrestler killers with one shot KO power. Exactly the kind of guys UFC thought, on paper, had the potential to derail Khabib.

2. Promo work was rigged from the start. First it was endless non-defense excuse making on the part of WME. Mayweather for a year. Then once that was over it was a year of maternity leave for a male fighter. It set the record for non-defense by an uninjured champion. When WME finally stripped their cash cow when it was clear he would never defend, they still promoted him as double champ. In a clear bid to derail Khabib before he could even be champ, UFC security allowed 30 into the Barclay's center the night before Khabib fought. Then when they attacked the bus, rather than drive away from the attack/out of the area like 99.99% of vehicle drivers in the history of vehicle attacks, they instead STOPPED the bus, then reversed into Conor's goons. I can't take credit for pointing this out though, so I'll credit Khabib himself.

Hilarious this is overlooked so often. UFC apparently also told Khabib the day before he had to go without any of his teammates on that bus. Gee I wonder why they'd request that... and so weird that 30 guys get past security, along with multiple cameras to record it and the UFC used it as promotion for 6 months...

Fact of the matter is if Khabib got off the bus, as planned, and so much as touched Conor, UFC would have pushed for criminal charges and for Khabib to be held in title limbo. That was the plan/to cancel the 223 title fight.

3. Reffing was rigged from the start.
This has been documented better than any other fight because there has never been a fight as obvious with fight fixing by the ref. Maybe second place is Mirg in Rumble-Vitor when Rumble was obviously supposed to be fired for missing weight again. Really though this was even more transparent.

There have been 100 threads on this. Any where from 14 to 18 fouls depending on who is counting. Khabib actually called out Herb on live TV at the end of round 3. He points out to Herb Conor is holding the gloves in hopes of demonstrating on international TV how much fight fixing is going on. Herb literally replies “let’s work” twice to try and redirect attention away from himself and blame Khabib for Conor cheating WHILE Khabib is pointing it out. Next level corruption. Dom explicitly concedes “he is holding that so he can’t complete the takedown.”

In between round 3-4 is when Khabib wouldn't let it slide. Khabib points out the glove grab happened 3 times to Herb yet again. Herb says “stop… stop” and separates them. Khabib states “three times now… you said if it happened twice you’d take away one point.” This is important to note. Dom literally just pointed out the cheating seconds ago but now Khabib is pushing back on the corruption of Dean, so there is a power disparity (fighter vs UFC corruption, as opposed to UFC-on-UFC criticism). The best way I can explain this from a PR POV is “I can insult my family but you can’t insult my family” sort of thing. So this part is amazing in that Dom JUST SAID IT but now that Khabib is pointing it out on NATIONAL TELEVISION you hear the reactions. Rogan replies “HE SHOULDN’T BE TALKING” immediately. Anik then tries to segue way from this uncomfortable spot to explain to the public to not internalize what Khabib said by saying “Khabib is not in his element unless he is jabbing… and talking… to whomever… the referee or his opponent” which can be translated as “don’t listen please.” Shills gonna shill. I almost counted that night's commentary as rigged as well, but we all know they're so obviously rigged in favor of certain outcomes that it isn't worth pointing out any longer as being a 4th factor at play.

4. UFC's calculus was rigged from the start.
They tried. My god, they tried. Conor got a do-over when he lost to Nate. Conor got a do-over when he lost to Dustin. The only other time I know of where a clear promotional favorite got an immediate rematch "do-over" for a non-controversial ending was when SF gave Cung Le a do-over vs Scott Smith.

As soon as the fight ended Dana was talking about lives being in danger and floated the idea of stripping Khabib and criminal prosecution. Rogan said the same. UFC shills all-around who cheered the bus attack couldn't wait to express their moral outrage. Ariel pushed moral outrage, king of corporate-brown-nosing and serial cheater Sonnen lectured us about the seriousness of breaching Unified Rules on jumping on a cage with a straight fucking face. Dana set the stage for the next phase (stripping of belt) to rig the game:


But they didn't do shit. Because even ESPN (and all public opinion) neutered their ability to do what they wanted. UFC was at the very least going to give Conor a do-over, at most would encourage criminal prosecution as an excuse to rip the belt away from Khabib just after defending it. There was an avalanche of PR in favor of Khabib.


Khabib beat all these factors.

1. Khabib understood he needed to belt's leverage to beat back the UFC's corruption. Not sure how much he understood it at that exact moment of the bus attack, but I guarantee that he did in general. So instead of them prosecuting Khabib we had to watch Dana feign outrage over Conor (and surprise, surprise... zero criminal charges!)

2. Khabib won the PR game. He went from a promotional supervillain with all the UFC shills hand-wringing the dire moral consequence of cage jumping, to becoming the undefeated legend who dominated LW and placed P4P #1 by that same PR machine.

3. Khabib took the long road to the title, won the belt anyway, and kept it. Zero bullshit rematches, zero contention, all justice, all accountability.

April to October 2018 truly was a master class in politics from Khabib. Much more than destroying Conor... he defeated a 4-billion dollar company that absolutely rigged it in every conceivable way... from the promo work to Conor's fight schedule to Herb Dean putting the fix in to attempts to strip Khabib after he won. He outplayed them every step of the way. Didn't get off the bus. Pointed out Herb's corruption on live TV in the 3rd round, to which the commentary quickly tried to cover it up. Annihilated the UFC in the media when the public pushback was so strong (even on ESPN) to Dana floating the idea of stripping him after he won.

TLDR: 30-0. Khabib vs WME ended in a submission victory for Khabib, bending the UFC PR power machine to his will until it snapped in two, ultimately serving his interests to close out his career.

great write up dude, dont listen to these retarded monkeys with their TLDR, was well written, I certainly enjoyed it and you hit some truth bombs there too.
 
Wrong. Dunham was never a good wrestler and he got TKO'd before any grappling took place. Gilbert never pressured Edson and wasn't a threat with takedowns. Castillo never tried to take Edson down because he wrecked him on the feet and was headhunting the whole fight. Great fight actually. Have you even watched these fights or did you go wiki on me just now? C'mon.

The big criticism with Barboza was (still is) that pressure was the blueprint to beat him. He never faced a wrestler of Khabibs caliber before they fought so the general prediction was that Khabib, a wrestler with insane pressure, would run right through Edson.

And MJ? C'mon lol. Whenever that dude got taken down he looked like a fish out of water. Before facing Khabib most of his losses were via wrestlefuck.

Not saying you’re wrong overall, but just because a wrestler gets KOed before he attempts a shot doesn’t mean that the anti-wrestler wasn’t effective in denying these opportunities via striking and footwork. Conor is a great example of a guy who denies the shots and tie-ups in this way.
 
If UFC really didn't want Khabib to have the title, why did they let Khabib win a vacant belt off Al Iaquinta, who was iirc not even top 10 at the time? They could have just said, no way can we put #11 or #12 in a title fight on short notice, let's postpone the fight until a suitable opponent is available.

Instead they gave Khabib a gimme fight and to add insult to injury, stripped Tony's interim belt.

What could they do cancel the event like hours before?
 
His most impressive MMA win technically speaking I believe was against Dustin. But that wasn't his most impressive career win. His most impressive career win was against WME UFC. When a 4+ billion company makes it their sole intent to ensure you can't reach the top, and you not only reach it but break through the ceiling imposed on you... that is something that has only happened once in this sport's history (though I hope it happens again).

Brief recap on how massive of a task this was:
1. Matchmaking was rigged from the start. They needed Khabib (and Tony) gone. That's why they kept trying to have them pick each other off, and why they could amass the longest-ever contender streaks (and doing it in the deepest division) without getting title shots. Before Khabib haters shifted to the "he never fought a wrestler" meme they embraced the "Khabib never fought a striker" approach. People forget the perceptions around MJ and Barboza at the time Khabib was matched against them... they were perceived to be wrestler killers with one shot KO power. Exactly the kind of guys UFC thought, on paper, had the potential to derail Khabib.

2. Promo work was rigged from the start. First it was endless non-defense excuse making on the part of WME. Mayweather for a year. Then once that was over it was a year of maternity leave for a male fighter. It set the record for non-defense by an uninjured champion. When WME finally stripped their cash cow when it was clear he would never defend, they still promoted him as double champ. In a clear bid to derail Khabib before he could even be champ, UFC security allowed 30 into the Barclay's center the night before Khabib fought. Then when they attacked the bus, rather than drive away from the attack/out of the area like 99.99% of vehicle drivers in the history of vehicle attacks, they instead STOPPED the bus, then reversed into Conor's goons. I can't take credit for pointing this out though, so I'll credit Khabib himself.

Hilarious this is overlooked so often. UFC apparently also told Khabib the day before he had to go without any of his teammates on that bus. Gee I wonder why they'd request that... and so weird that 30 guys get past security, along with multiple cameras to record it and the UFC used it as promotion for 6 months...

Fact of the matter is if Khabib got off the bus, as planned, and so much as touched Conor, UFC would have pushed for criminal charges and for Khabib to be held in title limbo. That was the plan/to cancel the 223 title fight.

3. Reffing was rigged from the start.
This has been documented better than any other fight because there has never been a fight as obvious with fight fixing by the ref. Maybe second place is Mirg in Rumble-Vitor when Rumble was obviously supposed to be fired for missing weight again. Really though this was even more transparent.

There have been 100 threads on this. Any where from 14 to 18 fouls depending on who is counting. Khabib actually called out Herb on live TV at the end of round 3. He points out to Herb Conor is holding the gloves in hopes of demonstrating on international TV how much fight fixing is going on. Herb literally replies “let’s work” twice to try and redirect attention away from himself and blame Khabib for Conor cheating WHILE Khabib is pointing it out. Next level corruption. Dom explicitly concedes “he is holding that so he can’t complete the takedown.”

In between round 3-4 is when Khabib wouldn't let it slide. Khabib points out the glove grab happened 3 times to Herb yet again. Herb says “stop… stop” and separates them. Khabib states “three times now… you said if it happened twice you’d take away one point.” This is important to note. Dom literally just pointed out the cheating seconds ago but now Khabib is pushing back on the corruption of Dean, so there is a power disparity (fighter vs UFC corruption, as opposed to UFC-on-UFC criticism). The best way I can explain this from a PR POV is “I can insult my family but you can’t insult my family” sort of thing. So this part is amazing in that Dom JUST SAID IT but now that Khabib is pointing it out on NATIONAL TELEVISION you hear the reactions. Rogan replies “HE SHOULDN’T BE TALKING” immediately. Anik then tries to segue way from this uncomfortable spot to explain to the public to not internalize what Khabib said by saying “Khabib is not in his element unless he is jabbing… and talking… to whomever… the referee or his opponent” which can be translated as “don’t listen please.” Shills gonna shill. I almost counted that night's commentary as rigged as well, but we all know they're so obviously rigged in favor of certain outcomes that it isn't worth pointing out any longer as being a 4th factor at play.

4. UFC's calculus was rigged from the start.
They tried. My god, they tried. Conor got a do-over when he lost to Nate. Conor got a do-over when he lost to Dustin. The only other time I know of where a clear promotional favorite got an immediate rematch "do-over" for a non-controversial ending was when SF gave Cung Le a do-over vs Scott Smith.

As soon as the fight ended Dana was talking about lives being in danger and floated the idea of stripping Khabib and criminal prosecution. Rogan said the same. UFC shills all-around who cheered the bus attack couldn't wait to express their moral outrage. Ariel pushed moral outrage, king of corporate-brown-nosing and serial cheater Sonnen lectured us about the seriousness of breaching Unified Rules on jumping on a cage with a straight fucking face. Dana set the stage for the next phase (stripping of belt) to rig the game:


But they didn't do shit. Because even ESPN (and all public opinion) neutered their ability to do what they wanted. UFC was at the very least going to give Conor a do-over, at most would encourage criminal prosecution as an excuse to rip the belt away from Khabib just after defending it. There was an avalanche of PR in favor of Khabib.


Khabib beat all these factors.

1. Khabib understood he needed to belt's leverage to beat back the UFC's corruption. Not sure how much he understood it at that exact moment of the bus attack, but I guarantee that he did in general. So instead of them prosecuting Khabib we had to watch Dana feign outrage over Conor (and surprise, surprise... zero criminal charges!)

2. Khabib won the PR game. He went from a promotional supervillain with all the UFC shills hand-wringing the dire moral consequence of cage jumping, to becoming the undefeated legend who dominated LW and placed P4P #1 by that same PR machine.

3. Khabib took the long road to the title, won the belt anyway, and kept it. Zero bullshit rematches, zero contention, all justice, all accountability.

April to October 2018 truly was a master class in politics from Khabib. Much more than destroying Conor... he defeated a 4-billion dollar company that absolutely rigged it in every conceivable way... from the promo work to Conor's fight schedule to Herb Dean putting the fix in to attempts to strip Khabib after he won. He outplayed them every step of the way. Didn't get off the bus. Pointed out Herb's corruption on live TV in the 3rd round, to which the commentary quickly tried to cover it up. Annihilated the UFC in the media when the public pushback was so strong (even on ESPN) to Dana floating the idea of stripping him after he won.

TLDR: 30-0. Khabib vs WME ended in a submission victory for Khabib, bending the UFC PR power machine to his will until it snapped in two, ultimately serving his interests to close out his career.

Didnt read but Khabibs biggest win is ducking prime tony. He got to remain unbeaten but is tarnished with khaduck moniker
 
That’s a lot of text

Too long didn't read. Khabib took the long road to the title because he kept getting injured.
You sure have a lot of time on your hands, TS.
El3R.gif
Confirmed: Khabib's fanboys are now just as bad/annoying as McGregor's fanboys.

Sorry TSDR (too shallow, didn't read)

Post something of any substance and I'll try to converse
You guys overthink this stuff so much lol

And I love how people like you drop these huge conspiracy threads, yet can't respond to any criticism
lol what criticism? One-liners like the ones above? What post in the first 30 minutes of the thread did you want me to address exactly?
MJ and Barboza were never considered wrestle killers. Khabib was actually the big favourite to win both those fights and the vast majority of posters in here knew he would run them over.

And are you seriously shitting on the UFC for trying hard to make the Khabib/Ferguson fight happen? We all screamed for that fight.

Terrible thread.
Bit of revisionist history. The reason Khabib was held in high-esteem vs those 2 guys was because people in the know knew that his TDs were on another level entirely. On paper both guys were very much threats to any grappling-based fighter.

Barboza just put on two wrestler-killer performances. First he shut down all of Giblert's takedowns (and even took him down a few times himself). Then he did the wet-dream of every anti-wrestler in that he KOd Dariush cold while he was shooting.

Johnson was perceived as less of a wrestler-killer than Barboza but there was that factor as well. In his most recent fights at the time he lost to Nate (on the feet, so who cares for this topic), largely perceived to be robbed by Dariush (where he shut down his TDs repeatedly, the only reason Beneil got the SD was because he dropped him standing in the 3rd afaik) and of course beat grappling-heavy fighters like Lauzon and Tibau. It was well-known (at the time anyway) that Mcihael's base was wrestling as well of course.

No, I wasn't shitting on them for making Tony-Khabib. We all wanted that because we all knew they were the top 2 guys of the division at the time. I was merely saying why it was beneficial for the UFC to try to make that fight specifically from 2016-2018... both guys earned a title shot miles ahead of Conor yet he was scheduled to fight neither while they were repeatedly booked for one to pick the other guy off. Convenient is all I'm saying.
 
Look at all these stupid trolls commenting that can't read above a first grade level.

This thread is brilliant.
Good read. Wish sherbros weren't illiterate si they could appreciate the work you put in.
great write up dude, dont listen to these retarded monkeys with their TLDR, was well written, I certainly enjoyed it and you hit some truth bombs there too.
Thank guys, much appreciated. Weird how often Sherdog posts but refuses to read honestly. I thought that was the main point of a forum...
 
Too Long Didn't Read

Khabib took long because he kept getting injured

UFC has the fighters PR metrics they knew Khabib had huge following. They gave him multiple title shots but he or Tony kept getting hurt
Read the rest man. Matchmaking is a tiny part of the picture I was trying to paint.

They gave him zero title shots until Conor became champ and set the record for refusing to defend. WME had no choice at that point.

In other words, Khabib title shots was a distant plan F. Plan A was to excuse non-defense for a year via a boxing match and plan B was to excuse non-defense for a year using maternity leave, plan C, D, and E was to derail Khabib with a loss to either MJ or Barboza or Tony.
Worse because McGregor fanboys have been humbled so much lol
Says the Conor fan of course...
If UFC really didn't want Khabib to have the title, why did they let Khabib win a vacant belt off Al Iaquinta, who was iirc not even top 10 at the time? They could have just said, no way can we put #11 or #12 in a title fight on short notice, let's postpone the fight until a suitable opponent is available.

Instead they gave Khabib a gimme fight and to add insult to injury, stripped Tony's interim belt.
I think you forgot the atmosphere in 2018 a bit. They had 0 leverage. Conor already set the record for all of MMA history in not defending. The media and fans were starting to point out how much of a circus it was. Khabib couldn't be stopped. At that point they would have made Khabib vs a rock for the title in an effort to lure Conor back to fight for the belt vs Khabib. Keep in mind Dana said repeatedly at this point that 223 (originally Khabib/Tony of course) was for a belt no matter what happened.
 
Has TS tought of this excellent post ?

And how was kabibs competition before he came to the UFC ?
Any great opponents ?
I'm sure in your mind there was value here somewhere in between the misspellings, lack of reading comprehension, and nonsensical points
Way too long to read but imo Khabib took a loooong time to the title because the guy keeps getting injured or weight cut issues, which is no surprise given how he always goes all out in training and cuts a ridiculous amount of weight for a size advantage
Read the rest if you got some time. His long road to the title was just one point to feed into the larger point of WME rigging the deck.
What could they do cancel the event like hours before?
Yup, good point. Keep in mind Al was plan D I think it was. Tony was plan A, Max plan B, Pettis plan C.
explain the tibau decision
Explain your inability to make a coherent point
Herb is inconsistent as fuck and obviously overworked, but I doubt he was fixing the fight. He could have easily stood the fight up like Mirgliota did against Woodley and Till/Vitor Johnson. In retrospect Conor could just as easily have been trying to draw a foul so he could get a break and a stand up. Or a DQ to save face because technically it's not a "loss".
Conor wins belt in 2016. Since then every single fight of his...

Conor vs Khabib ref: HERB DEAN
Conor vs Cerrone ref: HERB DEAN
Conor vs Dustin 2 ref: HERB DEAN
Conor vs Dustin 3 ref: HERB DEAN

100% of fights since he was ordained their double champ cash cow promo darling. Do you think that's a coincidence? Or is UFC that badly staffed that they can't find any other ref?
 
You put a lot of work into this TS, but completely ignored several major things.

1) Ramadan. Khabib had to take extended layoffs every year, which made building him up difficult
2) Regardless of matchups made, Khabib was the heavy favorite in the vast majority of them. He still never fought an A Level wrestler, but i don't necessarily blame him for it. There just really wasn't one.
3) freaking everybody wanted Tony vs Khabib. They were the top 2 fighters in lw for several years in a row.
4) they let Khabib fight #12 Iaquinta for the belt. Not exactly what a major promoter does when trying to impede his progress.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Khabib was amazing. He accomplished a lot, and I wish he stayed long enough to cement GOAT status. No need to beat a dead horse though. He's done.
 
Khabibs best win was RDA. He was a monster and starching everyone for that stretch
 
Jesus go take this effort down to the local community college and get up out that basement
 
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