UFC will probably never have a Heavyweight fighter as good as Fedor

[BFoe]

Hendo was a LHW. Also the Hendo vs Fedor card was my first live event I ever got to attend lol.

Jealous, even though Fedor lost. UFC 146, the all-HW card was mine. I bought tickets when it was a JDS-Overeem headliner, then of course Reem pissed hot…

 

[Ashen One]

He already made short work of virtually every ufc HW champ from his era.

Fedor GOAT

 

[NikkiNeversleep]

I get what you’re saying in regards to maybe a guy like Randleman. But surely Ricardo Arona knew how to defend sweeps, yet Fedor swept him. Even ol Chael is a black belt now, and Fedor swept him even in his 40s. I don’t quite buy the idea that Fedor wouldn’t be able sweep or sub anyone today.



Good post, and I apologize that I have to just quickly bulletpoint some stuff since I’m working atm. Before I do though—do you ever make highlight vids still? I liked the ones I saw, God, must’ve been a decade ago now. Crazy how time flies.

—Totally agree with how the fight plays out in a ring. Fedor was great at quickly closing distance and off-balancing guys, and I see him doing the same to Francis in a ring. In a cage, I wouldn’t go with Francis winning 7/10, that seems excessive; but I def agree that Fedor’s style worked much better in a ring (like Mirko, but Mirko’s style was even more dependent on it and never really translated well to a cage). Francis would have much more success against Fedor in a cage. I’d actually say that Fedor was fighting better in a cage than he ever had during his Bellator run. In the Strikeforce years I don’t think he even had a cage at his gym.

—It will be interesting to see how Francis looks post knee injury. I know he was injured against Gane so I don’t want to sound too harsh, but the ground game from both those guys was very low level imho. While I agree that Francis hits a lot harder than Bigfoot, Bigfoot was also a BJJ black belt. A weight difference like that is very tough to overcome if the heavier guy is a black belt as well. It was also Fedor’s sloppiness that led to that TD, I don’t really see the 2003-2005 peak version of Fedor telegraph the overhand right like that.

—As far as avoiding Francis’s power, or getting a TD, Fedor is faster than Gane and has never really had a tough time closing distance on someone.

And I def wouldn’t look at Fedor’s last two performances, he was years past his expiration date. But anyway, who knows, fantasy matchups are just that after all.

I do from time to time, some I post some I do for other people lol.

Fedor was good at off balancing guys by reaching with his casting hook/overhand right and dipping for the legs. Unfortunately that maneuver also left him open a lot (got him rocked even in Pride see the fight with Fujita) and in his prime he ate some shots for it. Not a risk he would be able to take against Francis. I stand by the 7/10 for Francis in a Cage, bigger frames just statistically perform better in a cage. I would almost argue he looked better in a cage in Bellator because he spent a lot of his time fighting bloated MWs/LHWs.... tends to help one get acclimated.

 

[mkt]

Hendo was a LHW. Also the Hendo vs Fedor card was my first live event I ever got to attend lol.

Hendo fought often at MW and ended his career there. If he could cut to 185 at 46 years old, he can certainly be called a MW.

 

[NikkiNeversleep]

Hendo fought often at MW and ended his career there. If he could cut to 185 at 46 years old, he can certainly be called a MW.

When he fought Fedor he was a LHW though, in fact he was LHW champion prior to fighting Fedor.

And that Hendo was juiced, he wasn't cutting to MW lol

 

[mkt]

When he fought Fedor he was a LHW though, in fact he was LHW champion prior to fighting Fedor.

And that Hendo was juiced, he wasn't cutting to MW lol

He cut to MW a year before that to fight Shields. As far as juicing goes, testing has always been a joke in Scott Coker's organizations. Fedor might have been juicing as well. We'll never know.

 

[NikkiNeversleep]

He cut to MW a year before that to fight Shields. As far as juicing goes, testing has always been a joke in Scott Coker's organizations. Fedor might have been juicing as well. We'll never know.

Hendo blamed his weight cut for his cardio going bad in that fight, interestingly enough. Which spurred him moving back up to LHW. And he would not comfortably go back to MW until the initial tightening on the TUE regulations in 2014, pretty sure Mousasi was his first fight back at 185 post TUE changes during his return to UFC after Strikeforce's death. And that was almost a year after the TUE regulations changing in the USA, particularly California and Nevada. Which I think also played a role in him fighting Vitor in Brazil lol

EDIT: Remembering that he fought Lyoto, Evans and someone else at MW before Mousasi, those fights were MW/Catchweight too I think? If so I was wrong on that point. I just remember him fighting Mousasi after the TUE changes after he lost to DC and Super Vitor lmfao.

 

[Juice]

Prime Fedor was too strong and too fast for Jones. Fedor would have defeated Jones in Round 1. I don't think that match would have even gone to a decision.

What a crock of BS.

Prime Jones is without doubt not only bigger but also way stronger than Fedor's small overrated ass.

Jones would have defeated Fedor by anything he wants in the first 10 seconds of the first round easily and effortlessly.

How does that sound?

Well considering how close Vitor was to arm baring Jones, my pick is Fedor via Armbar

Considering how Fedor got KO'ed by a old middleweight two weight classes below him, my pick is Jones.

I don't even need to mention all of the other embarrassing losses LMAO.

 

[BFoe]

I do from time to time, some I post some I do for other people lol.

Fedor was good at off balancing guys by reaching with his casting hook/overhand right and dipping for the legs. Unfortunately that maneuver also left him open a lot (got him rocked even in Pride see the fight with Fujita) and in his prime he ate some shots for it. Not a risk he would be able to take against Francis. I stand by the 7/10 for Francis in a Cage, bigger frames just statistically perform better in a cage. I would almost argue he looked better in a cage in Bellator because he spent a lot of his time fighting bloated MWs/LHWs.... tends to help one get acclimated.

I’d venture to guess it was training/coaching his team that lead to those cage improvements. Between his own training camps and time spent training guys like Nemkov, Tokov, and Moldavsky, I think it was just a matter of spending more time training in the cage and having one in the gym that made the difference. He did a much better job getting off the cage against Mir that he did against Rogers and Hendo, and that fight came before fighting guys like Chael, Bader, or Rampage (only in the Chael fight did the cage even come into play IIRC, but I’m going by memory).

I like your breakdown of Fedor’s use of the casting punch
I’ll just quickly mention that it wasn’t always the right hand—he took Nog down after stepping in after a left, he took Rogers down without using a casting punch at all. Fedor had lots of stuff besides just dipping for the legs: inside and outside trips, off-balancing them from the waist in the clinch, using hand-traps when entering, etc.

Side note: Hendo’s first fight off TRT was Rashad if memory serves. The commission there (Canada) just didn’t give out any TUEs. I think he was able to use it against juicy Vitor and then Shogun in the rematch as both fights were in Brazil. Hendo’s a legend and on my Top 10 all time list, but off TRT he did not do well (which is to be expected I guess, he was old AF).

He cut to MW a year before that to fight Shields. As far as juicing goes, testing has always been a joke in Scott Coker's organizations. Fedor might have been juicing as well. We'll never know.

I don’t understand this. The fight with Hendo was in Chicago, it was governed by the IL commission. How was testing any different for Strikeforce than any other time the IL commission governs a combat sports event? Makes no sense. If Fedor was juicing why wouldn’t he just get a TUE for TRT like Hendo, Mir, and about a zillion other fighters?

Nikki is right about the cardio thing with Hendo cutting to 185 btw, and he said something to the effect that if he was going to fight at 185 again he’d have to do things differently.

 

[Trabaho]

Name me a ufc hw champ that Dan Henderson could ever beat ?
Big Nog and Couture. That's 2 out of 10.
Dan could never beat Stipe, Cain, Prime JDS, Nganou ect.

Half Fedor competition Was non elite to say the least. Probably 70%

 

[icemun]

When he fought Fedor he was a LHW though, in fact he was LHW champion prior to fighting Fedor.

And that Hendo was juiced, he wasn't cutting to MW lol

Henderson was 206lbs in the cage
Thats MW fight weight. His previous fight was at MW, where he lost

Also he had a medical exemption for test

Its not like they fought in Pride where steroids were encouraged and fighters flagrantly abused them, juicing to the gills

 

[NikkiNeversleep]

I’d venture to guess it was training/coaching his team that lead to those cage improvements. Between his own training camps and time spent training guys like Nemkov, Tokov, and Moldavsky, I think it was just a matter of spending more time training in the cage and having one in the gym that made the difference. He did a much better job getting off the cage against Mir that he did against Rogers and Hendo, and that fight came before fighting guys like Chael, Bader, or Rampage (only in the Chael fight did the cage even come into play IIRC, but I’m going by memory).

I like your breakdown of Fedor’s use of the casting punch
I’ll just quickly mention that it wasn’t always the right hand—he took Nog down after stepping in after a left, he took Rogers down without using a casting punch at all. Fedor had lots of stuff besides just dipping for the legs: inside and outside trips, off-balancing them from the waist in the clinch, using hand-traps when entering, etc.

Side note: Hendo’s first fight off TRT was Rashad if memory serves. The commission there (Canada) just didn’t give out any TUEs. I think he was able to use it against juicy Vitor and then Shogun in the rematch as both fights were in Brazil. Hendo’s a legend and on my Top 10 all time list, but off TRT he did not do well (which is to be expected I guess, he was old AF).


I don’t understand this. The fight with Hendo was in Chicago, it was governed by the IL commission. How was testing any different for Strikeforce than any other time the IL commission governs a combat sports event? Makes no sense. If Fedor was juicing why wouldn’t he just get a TUE for TRT like Hendo, Mir, and about a zillion other fighters?

Nikki is right about the cardio thing with Hendo cutting to 185 btw, and he said something to the effect that if he was going to fight at 185 again he’d have to do things differently.

Had to look it up but Hendo was granted a TUE by Winnipeg for the fight with Evans, he was not however granted one for the fight with DC or Mousasi. Rough.

I actually thought Fedor looked super sloppy against Mir personally, but Mir tends to do that to most people, he himself looked really sloppy at the end of his career after all the CTE. Fedor's first takedown against Rogers was after a casting punch, his second takedown was after rocking Rogers with a casting punch lol, he was also flipped over by Rogers while reaching for a Kimura and Rogers was able to get out of it (which makes me think in a cage Francis would do the same). Of course his biggest "takedown" of the fight came when he put Rogers' head in the front row with a casting right. Lol

Fedor's takedowns tend to come from his chest, which is common among Sambo guys, as soon as his chest makes contact with his opponent you see his entire weight shift knee level on his opponent and he pulls them to the ground rather than wasting a lot of energy trying to forcibly lift and dump them. Finesse over brute force.

 

[NikkiNeversleep]

Henderson was 206lbs in the cage
Thats MW fight weight. His previous fight was at MW, where he lost

Also he had a medical exemption for test

Its not like they fought in Pride where steroids were encouraged and fighters flagrantly abused them, juicing to the gills

No Henderson's previous two fights before Fedor were Calvacante and Sobral, at LHW. Where he was Champion before fighting Fedor. He weighed in at 207 lbs for the Fedor fight (and if he was telling truth was around 220 for the fight itself). I'm more than aware that Dan Henderson had a TUE, I've discussed it at length with him and Sonnen on Twitter a few times. I'm not knocking him for it, but it would be foolish to pretend it didn't play a role in a lot of his success.

 

[icemun]

No Henderson's previous two fights before Fedor were Calvacante and Sobral, at LHW. Where he was Champion before fighting Fedor. He weighed in at 207 lbs for the Fedor fight (and if he was telling truth was around 220 for the fight itself). I'm more than aware that Dan Henderson had a TUE, I've discussed it at length with him and Sonnen on Twitter a few times. I'm not knocking him for it, but it would be foolish to pretend it didn't play a role in a lot of his success.

I meant his last loss was against Shield at MW

He didnt cut weight for an alleged HW fight, thats idiotic.

It was in the rules. No one knows what Fedor was on and its not like the fight was in Pride, where steroids were encouraged and the outcome would have been the same or worse.

 

[NikkiNeversleep]

I meant his last loss was against Shield at MW

He didnt cut weight for an alleged HW fight, thats idiotic.

It was in the rules. No one knows what Fedor was on and its not like the fight was in Pride, where steroids were encouraged and the outcome would have been the same or worse.

He didn't cut weight, he was dehydrated from an excess of training, he had 3 guys fighting that weekend on different cards (he's a coach) and was in the gym with them. If he's to be believed he was exhausted and lacking water for at least the 3 days prior to the fight and was really struggling with pains in his knee (which has always bothered him since tweaking it in his first fight with Andy). Unlikely Fedor was on anything for his fight Hendo, he and Hendo were tested by the same athletic commission and as little value as it might hold, I personally don't think Fedor is the type of man to cheat. I don't think he saw any value in it. Could I be wrong? Sure, but it's the vibe I get from him. But like I said he was a LHW coming into the fight with Fedor and had previously been training for LHW fights. Even prior to being booked to fight Fedor he was in regular camp for LHW fights, as he expected to defend his title when he was approached with the offer to fight an MMA legend that he also respected.

It's already been mentioned but he said himself that the weight cut to 185 for the Shields' fight was one of his worst and it affected his cardio for that fight. Believable as Hendo has never shown consistent issues with cardio on the level that he showed in that fight.

 

[mkt]

Hendo blamed his weight cut for his cardio going bad in that fight, interestingly enough. Which spurred him moving back up to LHW. And he would not comfortably go back to MW until the initial tightening on the TUE regulations in 2014, pretty sure Mousasi was his first fight back at 185 post TUE changes during his return to UFC after Strikeforce's death. And that was almost a year after the TUE regulations changing in the USA, particularly California and Nevada. Which I think also played a role in him fighting Vitor in Brazil lol

EDIT: Remembering that he fought Lyoto, Evans and someone else at MW before Mousasi, those fights were MW/Catchweight too I think? If so I was wrong on that point. I just remember him fighting Mousasi after the TUE changes after he lost to DC and Super Vitor lmfao.

Mousasi beat completely shot, 40+ year old, no-TRT versions of Hendo and Belfort. Yet his fans always list those fights on his resume with no qualifications, lol.

 

[NikkiNeversleep]

Mousasi beat completely shot, 40+ year old, no-TRT versions of Hendo and Belfort. Yet his fans always list those fights on his resume with no qualifications, lol.

He beat a lot of great fighters, and was winning fights against guys who were "supposed" to beat him. So I've always considered Mousasi underrated in a general sense. He's definitely an upper tier fighter, maybe not one of the best or all time best but he's up there. Better than most, worse than a few.

 

[TempleoftheDog]

Stipe beats them all prime for prime. So there’s that part.

 

[NikkiNeversleep]

Stipe beats them all prime for prime. So there’s that part.

Unpopular opinion, but I actually think a Prime Nogueira gives Stipe a run for his money.

 

[mkt]

I
I don’t understand this. The fight with Hendo was in Chicago, it was governed by the IL commission. How was testing any different for Strikeforce than any other time the IL commission governs a combat sports event? Makes no sense. If Fedor was juicing why wouldn’t he just get a TUE for TRT like Hendo, Mir, and about a zillion other fighters?

Nikki is right about the cardio thing with Hendo cutting to 185 btw, and he said something to the effect that if he was going to fight at 185 again he’d have to do things differently.

Overeem, Barnett, Bigfoot and Werdum all fought in Strikeforce and never tested positive for PEDs. All 4 were busted in the UFC within the next couple of years. Overeem flew out of the U.S. before his first UFC fight with Lesnar to miss a test, then got busted before his next fight. Rewatch his second fight with Werdum which was in SF. He looked like a comic book character. He literally went from a guy who made 205 to a guy who cut from 280 with very little body fat. If Strikeforce couldn't catch him, their testing was a joke or non-existent. Heck, Barnett was busted twice in the UFC under very early testing around 2002.

The only guys who ever seem to test positive under Coker are older expendable fighters like Kimbo and Ken Shamrock right after their fight.