Social Biden says “it’s wrong” that Florida has Banned trans surgeries and puberty blockers for minor



Judge slows the roll...
 
Strychnine said:


Judge slows the roll...
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"We will continue fighting against the rogue elements in the medical establishment that push ideology over evidence and protect against mutilating our kids " - office of Governor Ron DeSantis

Signed by: proud Floridian who is on the right side of history
:meow:Go get some more rocks you bum and leave the fkkn kids alone
 
Sano said:
Clearly, transcare for minors needs to be regulated and current knowledge about risk-reward should be continously examined. I have no issue with that, on the contrary, we need more informed consent and higher quality care in healthcare. The preponderance of the current evidence speaks in favour of transmedicine, however that doesn't mean it's settled and it still needs to be applied sensibly. While hormone therapy has been used for decades for a variety of reasons, it'll take years from now to fully understand the true scope of it. Extensive psychological care needs to be the first line of treatment.

Mental Health Outcomes in Transgender and Nonbinary Youths Receiving Gender-Affirming Care
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423

Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Prevalence
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/

Quality of life in people with transsexuality after surgery: a systematic review and meta-analysis
https://hqlo.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12955-020-01510-0

This is a sensitive and very niche medical issue that is disproportionally used as a political football, only hurting the people involved. The feigned concern and obsession is very transparent and few in here care enough to educate themselves. As long as it's a venue to spew hate and ignorance based on some ideological nonsense, that's good enough. I think you're generally an intelligent and solid poster, but you appear biased by your religious dogma on any LGBT issue and the way concern for human well being is thrown in the trash gets my goat way more than when the usual suspects engage in their faux outrage. I think I'm done.
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Explain to me how a child can possibly be capable of informed consent when it comes to transitioning please.
 
Bald1 said:
Explain to me how a child can possibly be capable of informed consent when it comes to transitioning please.
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Informed consent as a principle to be advocated for in medicine. If you want to learn about consent in healthcare and specifically in regards to minors undergoing treatment, pharmacological or otherwise, there's plenty of sources out there.
 
mkess101 said:
I mean, even if you essentially disagree with everything RDS does, you can have the perspective of "The blind squirrel finding the nut".
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Similarly, even if you agree with everything he does, it doesn't seem like "doctors and parents should make medical decisions for kids" should be a controversial position.
 
Sano said:
Informed consent as a general principle, underscore informed. If you want to learn about consent in healthcare and specifically in regards to minors undergoing treatment, pharmacological or otherwise, there's plenty of sources out there.
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This is a cop out. Precisely because "underscore informed". Children simply do not have all the information to make this decision. It's a literal impossibility.
 
Jack V Savage said:
Similarly, even if you agree with everything he does, it doesn't seem like "doctors and parents should make medical decisions for kids" should be a controversial position.
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But that's not a position that I (or anyone that I know of) is taking in a general sense. You've already agreed that there limits that the government can and will impose on doctors and parents when it comes to what's allowed to be done to children. So your argument really isn't "we need to leave it all up to doctors and parents". Your argument is "this falls under the scope of what Jack V Savage feels is acceptable to leave up to doctors and parents".

If a doctor and parents decided that the best way to help a child stop having nightmares was to permanently blind the kid, you'd (rightfully) want government intervention to stop that.
 
Jack V Savage said:
Children should not and do not make the decision themselves.
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What makes you think their doctors have a time machine?

Informed consent is an impossibility in a scenario that depends on how a kid will develop in the future. This isn't a cancerous growth were talking about here, or anything verifiable, quantifiable or predictable. Even the claim that trans peoples brains are different can't be relied on as kids brains aren't developed enough to base this information on. Any sort of medical intervention when it comes to kids is a gamble at best. The most charitable thing that can be said on this topic is that it's a permanent solution to likely temporary problem.

Let them socially transition. Fine. Wear whatever clothes they want and behave however they like. Then when they have a better sense of who they may be in the future then have the conversation about options. If an adult wants to act on their feelings I've no issues with it. But there's no scenario where this is a good idea for kids.

Now, recant and apologize for your recent slander or fuck right off Jack. Clear?
 
7even said:
It’s not closer to an ear piercing. Jesus christ. Non are closer to each other.
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You think circumcision is closer to cutting off breasts or completely mutilating the genitals? I do not understand this argument.
 
Bald1 said:
This is a cop out. Precisely because "underscore informed". Children simply do not have all the information to make this decision. It's a literal impossibility.
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You not being able to read or understand what was being said is not my issue. I mentioned informed consent as a general principle in healthcare, not specifically in minors. With emphasis on informed seeing as patients should be equipped to make the right decisions for them. I wasn't talking about minors, as minors cannot consent without a guardian or parent, barring a few exceptions. If you're asking me how do any minor recieve any medical treatment, then I think you're smart enough to figure that one out yourself. If you want to have a discussion about the evidence, the strenghts and weaknesses and how it should be applied, I've given a pretty detailed explanation of my opinion already. Don't attempt to do a gotcha by taking things out of context.
 
BFoe said:
“Calling it a hateful bill is divisive talk”—
No, it’s a divisive bill. Republicans love this cop-out. They pass fucked up shit, and then if anyone criticizes it they paint them as “divisive.”
It’s all fine and wonderful that you think you know better than these kids’ parents and doctors—but you aren’t their parent, and you’re not their doctor. Your argument essentially is: “That’s great that that they want to do a certain thing for their kids, but we know better than them and we are right whereas they are wrong, therefore we’ll force them all to do what we want.”
That’s a pretty scary viewpoint.

It’s funny how DeSantis is all about parents having a voice and a choice, until he isn’t. The truth is, he’s all in favor of right wing parents forcing other people to bend to their will (e.g., deciding not only what books their kids can’t read, but also what everyone else children can’t read), and he has no issue with the government playing Parent when involves liberal kids or minority groups.
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Yes, I absolutely do know better than any parent or doctor who thinks sterilizing kids is the solution. It's an absolutely insane solution that thankfully most of the rest of the world is starting to realize. What's a cop-out is just throwing your hands up and saying the doctors know best, what about all the doctors against it? Even liberal Norway banned these surgeries because a study found that there was no scientific basis that it helps children. In fact, the study found the opposite.
 
Sano said:
You not being able to read or understand what was being said is not my issue. I mentioned informed consent as a general principle in healthcare, not specifically in minors. With emphasis on informed seeing as patients should be equipped to make the right decisions for them. I wasn't talking about minors, as minors cannot consent without a guardian or parent, barring a few exceptions. If you're asking me how do any minor recieve any medical treatment, then I think you're smart enough to figure that one out yourself. If you want to have a discussion about the evidence, the strenghts and weaknesses and how it should be applied, I've given a pretty detailed explanation of my opinion already. Don't attempt to do a gotcha by taking things out of context.
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This is yet another cop out.

The thread is about minors. I've made a pretty bulletproof case for why informed consent is an impossibility in the specific topic this thread is about. See my reply to Jack above. This isn't a gotcha scenario and I've absolutely nothing against you nor do I think you're arguing in bad faith. But you're picking and choosing how to apply a term that has clear meaning and defined parameters.
 
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