UFC corruption makes Don King look like Santa Claus, MMA fighters tell ABC

[jm5000]

Until the fighters are ready to unionize thats on them. Fighters will always get the short end of the stick as long as ownership has all the leverage

 

[Kevster]

Quit and get a regular job then, no guns are held to heads, don’t have the necessary qualifications for a good job, should have stuck in at school.

It’s a tiny percentage of the planet that gets rich chasing the millionaires dream.

 

[avenue94]

But it's a fact that gyms increased despite the sport's infancy because of broke fighters. Tom breese started renegade here. If he had made 50-150k a fight, do you think he'd have accepted the headache of having such a big gym?

Maybe a little, but I feel like that's a real stretch. Like...we don't see more private schools popping up due to poor teachers, or in any other sports really. They may not all be good coaches, but there's frankly probably an oversupply of mma coaches if anything currently.

As for Breese, pretty good chance. Athletes have to do something after they retire. It's a bit chicken and egg, I see where you're coming from, but I think it's more there is demand for gyms/training so fighters do it and would do it either way.

 

[avenue94]

I’m all for more fighter pay and believe probably 99 percent of the evil shot they do

but don king is on a different level. That man is the actual devil

Murderer and absolute awful human. But I think the point people are missing is that no one is defending Don King. Rather, the point is, how fucked is your industry if you are making less than what a boxer managed by Don King would have made after he stole from you?

 

[AmericanMMA]

Anyone saying this has no idea how big of a monster Don King is

 

[ferrisjso]

Some people are born to give rimjob to some random athletes/celebrities
I don't owe shit to those fighters, just like i don't owe anything to butcher when i buy meat. If you are that great human being, there are so much worse shit happening in the world, focus on that not some privileged fighters.

This shit has led to a race to the bottom and slowly but surely will destroy everyone. You're basically mocking the idea of solidarity. It's not the worst thing happening in a dystopia lets ignore it is just a silly argument on so many levels. This is a karate forum we're discussing the problems with "karate".

They aren't privilegged they make less than ordinary people despite being celebrities in our corner of the internet.

 

[PhilMcCavity]

Imagine being such a fucking lowlife that you side with the company and not the fighters on this.

Lol stop whining about fighter pay you clown. They’re adults that sign contracts then complain about them. Shut up.

 

[chrisdiaz]

"The slideshow also made the claim that UFC President Dana White, Endeavour CEO Ari Emanuel and former ZUFFA owners Lorenzo Fertitta and Frank Fertitta “have made more [money] than all fighters in UFC history combined.”

Um no shit, they are the owners of the business. They wouldnt continue to own it if it wasnt profitable.

 

[Sean Ryan]

I don't know where they came up with their math, but 19% of 609 million is 115.7 million. 13% of 1.14 billion is 148.2 million. As a percentage of total revenue, yes, that's less, but in actual dollar figures paid to fighters that's 32.5 million more. Plus it's already been pointed out that Conor McGregor has a warping effect on fighter pay because he's paid so much. Conor fought 3 times in 2015, and 0 times in 2022.

These articles are trying to make it sound like fighters took a pay cut, while almost everyone who was fighting for the UFC in 2015 that is still there now makes more money now. The percentage dropped because the UFC made more money, not because fighters' wages got cut.

I'm all for fighters making more money, but let's be honest about the data we're discussing.

They are getting paid less. The roster is a lot bigger than it used to be.
McGregor wasn't earning millions in 2015 either.
2016 was when he fought Aldo.

 

[Cartiac]

Independent contractors are double taxed on SS and payroll. That's how the tax code works.
Fresh signed fighters? Probably little less or little more depending on the fighter, if we are talking economically. They aren't the ones that get screwed the most by the lack of a functioning free market in mma.

Also you realize you make more than most entry level fighters while having a much longer earning window with less health costs? Counting both show and win for every fight is hilariously illogical, unless you think somehow every fighter can win and no one loses.

That is not at all how the tax code works. Self Employment tax is exactly the same as the Social Security and Medicare combined rate and by definition of self employment they are responsible for the employer portion of the Social Security tax. Claiming they are double taxed on payroll is just idiotic.

It would be stupid for fighters to not be 1099'ed because it allows even top guys to offset huge portions off their income with business expenses (training/travel/equipment/meals/etc) so they pay little to zero income or SE tax because their business officially doesn't make any money. That would not happen if they were W2'ed. That is the tax game, be smart, appear poor, avoid income tax, manage capital gains, be rich.

 

[Dickie Greenleaf]

Bob Arum was right when he said that the UFC was garbage and junk.

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

Sickens me that some fighters get $12k/$12k and Dana disrespects fighters who leave somewhere else for more money saying that the UFC is about the best fighting the best and not about making money. "It's not a career it's an opportunity" blah blah blah. Dana wants these guys to put their health on the line and put on exciting fights "shits on anybody or any fight he deems boring" for table scraps.

That's why he loves slap fighting, can pay guys $2k to knock eachother out and give eachother permanent brain damage. Meanwhile he gives a douchetouber $250k and reimburses another one at a casino multiple times.

 

[wisdom blows]

U Fight Cheap

 

[capnlarge]

I actually think that if the fighters formed a UFC Fighters Association it could benefit both sides. Major sports with this sort of relationship with their competitors are fucking swimming in success. The only major issue is that the government is heavily involved with the UFC, which is not something the NFL has to deal with.

 

[jx820]

I'm curious to see if the ABC does anything with this info. I'm not remotely opposed to an association of sanctioning bodies regulating revenue or profit share, but allowing government agencies to regulate a cut for the employees or contractors of a private company would be a potentially very disruptive precedent that I think a lot of under appreciated workers could cite (e.g. McJobs might be a lot more appealing if McDonalds franchises had to share 40 or 50 of of their profits).

I like to see the fighters actually doing something about their grievances. I feel like 90% of the time I just see people passively bellyaching in the press about a contract they agreed to. This kind of thing, and the class action suit, are the way to go. Unionization is the obvious path forward but so far they don't have the desire, heart, organization, or trust to get that done.

 

[jx820]

I actually think that if the fighters formed a UFC Fighters Association it could benefit both sides. Major sports with this sort of relationship with their competitors are fucking swimming in success. The only major issue is that the government is heavily involved with the UFC, which is not something the NFL has to deal with.

Half the reason for that government regulation is a history of rampant corruption and an unwillingness to self regulate. The pharmaceutical industry dodged regulation by introducing the Pharma code. Hollywood dodged regulation by introducing the MPAA and the rating system.

IDK if you could ever get beurocrats to let go of any power they've already claimed, but if the UFC could prove out their internal regulations, their safety record, their drug testing, and they had a fighters association regulating the athlete's concerns... they could make a strong case for NFL/WWE style self-regulation. That could land with "small goverment" regulators. Particularly if the right political "donations" were made.

 

[mangokush]

The fighters should actually be paying the UFC to take part in the opportunity to fight in the cage

The UFC has done more for MMA than any other fight org, they were bleeding money when they first started, only when they started making money, people started crying on how "greedy" the UFC is and how they pay their fighters very little

The UFC isn't forcing those fighters to fight in the UFC, they can always fight somewhere else

If thr fighters want real change they should actually do something about it instead of complaining on social media

Action like protesting with signs at events would be a start

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

I don't know where they came up with their math, but 19% of 609 million is 115.7 million. 13% of 1.14 billion is 148.2 million. As a percentage of total revenue, yes, that's less, but in actual dollar figures paid to fighters that's 32.5 million more. Plus it's already been pointed out that Conor McGregor has a warping effect on fighter pay because he's paid so much. Conor fought 3 times in 2015, and 0 times in 2022.

These articles are trying to make it sound like fighters took a pay cut, while almost everyone who was fighting for the UFC in 2015 that is still there now makes more money now. The percentage dropped because the UFC made more money, not because fighters' wages got cut.

I'm all for fighters making more money, but let's be honest about the data we're discussing.

They mention 148 million to fighters in 2016, which is more in total dollar amount, but that's also dependent on roster size so, there's still more factors at play

 

[avenue94]

That is not at all how the tax code works. Self Employment tax is exactly the same as the Social Security and Medicare combined rate and by definition of self employment they are responsible for the employer portion of the Social Security tax. Claiming they are double taxed on payroll is just idiotic.

So what you're saying is, instead of an employee being responsible for one portion of the payroll tax, they are now responsible for both portions of it?

It would be stupid for fighters to not be 1099'ed because it allows even top guys to offset huge portions off their income with business expenses (training/travel/equipment/meals/etc) so they pay little to zero income or SE tax because their business officially doesn't make any money. That would not happen if they were W2'ed. That is the tax game, be smart, appear poor, avoid income tax, manage capital gains, be rich.

For the most successful fighters sure, they have the ability to maximize the advantages of being a contractor as well as the means to get the legal guidance they'll almost certainly need. But for most fighters, especially entry level ones? They would almost certainly be better off as an employee if they had the option (which fighters legally don't essentially).

 

[Myrddin Wild]

"Corruption" is a bit of a heavy word for a business making money while paying fighters just as well or more than most other orgs. that said... we need these exaggerations to push the UFC toward the goal of higher fighter pay.

Many of the other orgs that were active in 2016 aren't around any more. Bellator only survived due to being owned by a large cable company that kept them afloat for the many years (until recently) they were in the red for profit.

I'm all about fighters getting more pay, but I don't think it's fair to compare their athlete pay to either other orgs that went bankrupt, or compare to completely different sports with broader viewership and completely different business models.

When compared to other MMA orgs... the UFC pays their low to mid teir fighters much better than most of the competition. Other orgs may be able to show more "total pay" but they're extremely top heavy paying their stars crazy money while the lower end gets much less than UFC's lower end.

An org who goes out of business pays nothing & has let down their entire roster.