Economy Inflation and Bitcoin.....another look

[aerius]

"There is no intrinsic value, nothing backs the prices."
Please give a definition of intrinsic value. Also, what is the intrinsic value of a U.S. dollar?

Worse comes to worst I can set my dollar bills on fire to keep warm or use them to wipe my ass. I can't do that with Bitcoin or any other cryptos.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

It's an actual currency that you can use to exchange good because of its stability. Bitcoin is not a currency.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. You didn't give a definition of intrinsic value. You also didn't follow that up with the 'intrinsic value' of the U.S. dollar. You can use the Zimbabwe dollars to buy things as well. Unfortunately you need about 9000 of them to buy a pizza.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

Worse comes to worst I can set my dollar bills on fire to keep warm or use them to wipe my ass. I can't do that with Bitcoin or any other cryptos.

It seems like you are giving an example of what you think intrinsic value is. I'll address your point but you need to make it clearer. Do you have a definition of intrinsic value? Also, your example of the dollar as toilet paper isn't a good one. Toilet paper seems like it would be much softer.

 

[LMP]

Like I said, we’re far apart. The “1000 blockchains” is meaningless when there is 1 blockchain that is a true commodity and immutable.

It addresses the "scarcity argument. "Bitcoin must be worth something because there is a 21 million cap on them ever being out there."
Yet other blockchains can do the exact same thing as bitcoin. Once again you can't really use it as a currency, over 30% is already lost and will keep increasing. It lacks stability, any given moment it can go up or crash completely. Besides having a piece of this particular blockchain code, it lacks in any utility or value.

 

[aerius]

It seems like you are giving an example of what you think intrinsic value is. I'll address your point but you need to make it clearer. Do you have a definition of intrinsic value? Also, your example of the dollar as toilet paper isn't a good one. Toilet paper seems like it would be much softer.

Other than the scrap metal value of the coins or use of paper bills as toilet paper, the intrinsic value of ALL fiat currencies is zero.

 

[LMP]

I'm not sure what you are saying here. You didn't give a definition of intrinsic value. You also didn't follow that up with the 'intrinsic value' of the U.S. dollar. You can use the Zimbabwe dollars to buy things as well. Unfortunately you need about 9000 of them to buy a pizza.

Most currency doesn't hold intrinsic vaule, it is used to exchange goods. There is value in older physical currency in the collectors market. Bitcoin is a poor currency because it lacks backing.

 

[HOLA]

Worse comes to worst I can set my dollar bills on fire to keep warm or use them to wipe my ass. I can't do that with Bitcoin or any other cryptos.

Not true! Bitcoin has used so much energy in recent years - more than entire countries - that it's actually turning some lakes into Jacuzzis. That will keep you warm!

Some locals say a bitcoin mining operation is ruining one of the Finger Lakes. Here's how. (nbcnews.com)

Summer on Seneca Lake, the largest of the Finger Lakes in upstate New York, is usually a time of boating, fishing, swimming and wine tasting. But for many residents of this bucolic region, there's a new activity this season — protesting a gas-fired power plant that they say is polluting the air and heating the lake.

"The lake is so warm you feel like you're in a hot tub," said Abi Buddington of Dresden, whose house is near the plant.

The facility on the shores of Seneca Lake is owned by the private equity firm Atlas Holdings and operated by Greenidge Generation LLC. They have increased the electrical power output at the gas-fired plant in the past year and a half and use much of the fossil-fuel energy not to keep the lights on in surrounding towns but for the energy-intensive "mining" of bitcoins...

An estimate from the University of Cambridge says global bitcoin miners use more energy in a year than Chile. When the energy comes from fossil fuels, the process can add significantly to carbon emissions. The Greenidge plant houses at least 8,000 computers and is looking to install more, meaning it will have to burn even more natural gas to produce more energy.

 

[LMP]

Not true! Bitcoin has used so much energy in recent years - more than entire countries - that it's actually turning some lakes into Jacuzzis. That will keep you warm!

Some locals say a bitcoin mining operation is ruining one of the Finger Lakes. Here's how. (nbcnews.com)

Summer on Seneca Lake, the largest of the Finger Lakes in upstate New York, is usually a time of boating, fishing, swimming and wine tasting. But for many residents of this bucolic region, there's a new activity this season — protesting a gas-fired power plant that they say is polluting the air and heating the lake.

"The lake is so warm you feel like you're in a hot tub," said Abi Buddington of Dresden, whose house is near the plant.

The facility on the shores of Seneca Lake is owned by the private equity firm Atlas Holdings and operated by Greenidge Generation LLC. They have increased the electrical power output at the gas-fired plant in the past year and a half and use much of the fossil-fuel energy not to keep the lights on in surrounding towns but for the energy-intensive "mining" of bitcoins...

An estimate from the University of Cambridge says global bitcoin miners use more energy in a year than Chile. When the energy comes from fossil fuels, the process can add significantly to carbon emissions. The Greenidge plant houses at least 8,000 computers and is looking to install more, meaning it will have to burn even more natural gas to produce more energy.

That's one of the big selling point used to support bitcoin. The coding to make the exact same coin system is open source and available to anyone. It can be replicate infinitely. The only draw back is getting people convinced that the should mine that particular blockchain.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Bitcoin being the 11th most valuble asset in the world is BS btw. I'm assuming it comes from this chart, which I just found while Googling:

There are multiple problems with this. What they basically did was take market price of bitcoin and multiply it by the circulating supply of bitcoins, then compared it to the market capitalization of publicly traded companies...and added in silver, for some reason?

Well, OK, what about gold, then? If you take the current gold price and multiply it by the above ground gold reserves, it's almost $13 trillion.

What about art? Googling it shows me the estimated global value of art is close to $2 trillion as an asset class.

What about the bond market? That's a huge asset class. Etc, etc, etc.

Yeah, in a really dumb post, that was the dumbest part (edging the bizarre claim that immigration *increases* inflation--WTF?). Why not dollars? No reason at all to compare total price of Bitcoins to a company in this context.

Generally annoying how people make these vibes-based points without really giving any consideration to what the words they type mean.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Bitcoin's value is largely based on the principles of scarcity, decentralization and the underlying technology of blockchain. The transparency of transaction and limitation of supply is the value in and of itself.

You don't know what "intrinsic" means, do you?

 

[mjfan23]

Worse comes to worst I can set my dollar bills on fire to keep warm or use them to wipe my ass. I can't do that with Bitcoin or any other cryptos.

But if you were mining bitcoins your house would be very warm anyway

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

Most currency doesn't hold intrinsic vaule, it is used to exchange goods. There is value in older physical currency in the collectors market. Bitcoin is a poor currency because it lacks backing.

"Most currency doesn't hold intrinsic value."
You still refuse to define intrinsic value. I'm not sure you understand what it is.

"Bitcoin is a poor currency because it lacks backing."
In 2010 someone bought two pizzas for 10,000 bitcoins. Today, 2 bitcoins would buy you a BMW. I think bitcoin is doing alright so far.

https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-... Bitcoin Pizza Day.,as the medium of exchange.

 

[Jack V Savage]

"Most currency doesn't hold intrinsic value."
You still refuse to define intrinsic value. I'm not sure you understand what it is.

"Bitcoin is a poor currency because it lacks backing."
In 2010 someone bought two pizzas for 10,000 bitcoins. Today, 2 bitcoins would buy you a BMW. I think bitcoin is doing alright so far.

https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/05/22/celebrating-bitcoin-pizza-day-the-time-a-bitcoin-user-bought-2-pizzas-for-10000-btc/#:~:text=Happy Bitcoin Pizza Day.,as the medium of exchange.

Er, I don't think you want currency with that kind of volatility.

 

[aerius]

In 2010 someone bought two pizzas for 10,000 bitcoins. Today, 2 bitcoins would buy you a BMW. I think bitcoin is doing alright so far.

https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/05/22/celebrating-bitcoin-pizza-day-the-time-a-bitcoin-user-bought-2-pizzas-for-10000-btc/#:~:text=Happy Bitcoin Pizza Day.,as the medium of exchange.

You've just demonstrated why bitcoin is useless as a currency of trade and store of value. I don't think you understand what a currency is or what it's supposed to do.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

You don't know what "intrinsic" means, do you?

I've asked people to define "intrinsic value" on here since people are using that term. Are you willing to define it?

That's one of the big selling point used to support bitcoin. The coding to make the exact same coin system is open source and available to anyone. It can be replicate infinitely. The only draw back is getting people convinced that the should mine that particular blockchain.

Your post makes it seem like people are being brainwashed or tricked into buying bitcoin. I own bitcoin and i'm very happy I decided to buy it. I have no regrets and I don't think I ever will.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

Er, I don't think you want currency with that kind of volatility.

I wouldn't call bitcoin a currency. I think of it as the money of the internet. Digital money is the way I see it. I don't think it's ready to be a reserve currency or the main unit of monetary exchange. Right now it's in it's speculative stage. The dollar keeps losing value and I'm very comfortable owning bitcoin as opposed to holding dollars. The future looks so bright I gotta wear shades.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

You've just demonstrated why bitcoin is useless as a currency of trade and store of value. I don't think you understand what a currency is or what it's supposed to do.

"I don't think you understand what a currency is or what it's supposed to do."
I'm very clear on currency but do you understand the difference between currency and money? I'm interested in money and I only use currencies since they are a good medium of exchange. I think language is important so we would have to be talking about the same thing for the conversation to make any sense.

I own bitcoins and have owned and traded bitcoins and other cryptos for about 7 years now. I'm ok doing this at least until people start to understand some of the things that are being discussed on this thread. There is a lot of confusion about the words we are using. It's an interesting topic in my opinion.

 

[panamaican]

Let's leave the Libertarian derp and technobabble aside for a moment, and think of something more tangible here. It's been like 15 years already. Last time you went to Dunkin' or wherever, and bought a coffee, you paid with what? Bitcoin, or good old fashioned $?

If it has so much utility, and solves all these problems, why does almost nobody actually use it?

Because as @LMP said - people are holding it hoping it goes up in value. So they won't spend it because that depletes their store of the valuable asset.

It's essentially become just another stock (to use a simple term that most people can follow). It rises and falls with consumer confidence, scarcity, etc. The core technology is widespread enough that bitcoin is no longer "the way" to make use of the blockchain.

It has intrinsic value like any tradeable asset but it's not going revolutionize commerce as people used to predict.

 

[LMP]

I've asked people to define "intrinsic value" on here since people are using that term. Are you willing to define it?


Your post makes it seem like people are being brainwashed or tricked into buying bitcoin. I own bitcoin and i'm very happy I decided to buy it. I have no regrets and I don't think I ever will.

Financially intrinsic value is holding value in itself. Bitcoin is supposedly a currency to be used, yet it lacks the stability required to be used as such. You literally show an example of why bitcoin is a horrible currency with the 10,000 bitcoin for a pizza example. The scarcity argument was exactly the same argument people made for beanie babies. Something being scarce doesn't mean it has an actual value. In this case the value is propped up by people believe that it must continue to increase in value, but doesn't produce value by itself. As stated other blockchain can literally do the exact same thing as bitcoin. The fact the they constantly fail really reinforces the idea that they don't actually produce anything of value. Tulips were once I highly sought after commodity, the value was super inflated.

I'm happy that you are happy with your decision hopefully you don't become a bag holder when others sell off.

 

[aerius]

"I don't think you understand what a currency is or what it's supposed to do."
I'm very clear on currency but do you understand the difference between currency and money? I'm interested in money and I only use currencies since they are a good medium of exchange. I think language is important so we would have to be talking about the same thing for the conversation to make any sense.

I own bitcoins and have owned and traded bitcoins and other cryptos for about 7 years now. I'm ok doing this at least until people start to understand some of the things that are being discussed on this thread. There is a lot of confusion about the words we are using. It's an interesting topic in my opinion.

Bitcoins and all other crypto are just another form of fiat money. The intrinsic value is zero, just as it is for all other forms of fiat money. And I won't even be able to wipe my ass with it if/when the value goes to zero.