International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

Hamas should return the hostages. Enough of this nonsense. Bring the Israelis home!
 
Blayt7hh said:
It’s been clear for a while now that you can’t put a realistic number on the death toll yet. I swear they hit 30k around December and that number has since stagnated, despite continued rhetoric about Israeli aggression. So what gives? Was it inflated a while back and the numbers only now catching up?

That’s part of why I’ve avoided talking the death toll. No one actually know it imo
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I was just saying this. The Hamas health ministry has no ability to keep track of the numbers anymore. Hence why Israel isn't disputing their claims. The IDFs knows damm well they can't do a real count because they've killed most of them.
 
what the heck? I don’t understand how any post of mine in this these would be deleted, MAYBE in the other thread as we discussed border patrol, but this one? What the heck?
 
kflo said:
People committing crimes, yes.
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People have a right to resist right wing regimes.

In any case those are innocent people being held against their will and Hamas is demanding they be freed.
 
ferrisjso said:
People have a right to resist right wing regimes.

In any case those are innocent people being held against their will and Hamas is demanding they be freed.
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You’re hopeless. You think a hostage taken while doing nothing is the same as someone prisoned for breaking the law……
 
kflo said:
You’re hopeless. You think a hostage taken while doing nothing is the same as someone prisoner for breaking the law……
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I don't respect the law for being the law I respect the law based on whether or not I agree with it. People who believe right and wrong is determined by legal and illegal are the worst humanity has to offer.
 
ferrisjso said:
I don't respect the law for being the law I respect the law based on whether or not I agree with it. People who believe right and wrong is determined by legal and illegal are the worst humanity has to offer.
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You think people kidnapped while doing nothing are the same as violent criminals being arrested for being violent criminals. And you think you are a good judge of humanity……
 
ferrisjso said:
I don't respect the law for being the law I respect the law based on whether or not I agree with it. People who believe right and wrong is determined by legal and illegal are the worst humanity has to offer.
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Come on, man, "jailed for breaking the law" but no trial?

They aren't jailing them "for breaking the law".

You're talking to a retard.
 
Siver! said:
Come on, man, "jailed for breaking the law" but no trial?

They aren't jailing them "for breaking the law".

You're talking to a retard.
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And thats why I despise the legal system so much. Its there to give legitamacy to oppression. People should have to justify whether or not they agree with a law before calling people criminals. Simply calling them criminals is a dog whistle always had been. Even with adults and they are mostly locking up kids.
 
ferrisjso said:
And thats why I despise the legal system so much. Its there to give legitamacy to oppression. People should have to justify whether or not they agree with a law before calling people criminals. Simply calling them criminals is a dog whistle always had been. Even with adults and they are mostly locking up kids.
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Right, but even simpler, you can't cry "breaking the law" if you're too scared to put them to a trial.

That suggests they didn't break the law at all.

They're political prisoners with zero basis in law, let's start calling it what it is.

If there was a basis in law, they'd face trial and then be sentenced, not be held indefinitely for no reason.
 
ferrisjso said:
I was just saying this. The Hamas health ministry has no ability to keep track of the numbers anymore. Hence why Israel isn't disputing their claims. The IDFs knows damm well they can't do a real count because they've killed most of them.
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Pretty much, honestly I would not be surprised if the actual death tool is now well over 50K with the level of urban destruction were seeing, beyond the ability to keep count being gradually degraded as hospitals are destroyed your potentially having entire families killed leaving nobody to report the deaths.

Honestly I do think what were seeing now in the west is really a key moment, the disparity between public opinion and that of the political/media class is becoming an absolute gulf, support for Israel is dropping away massively with the general population but its not being reflected at all by our establishment beyond some VERY weak PR statements.

I think theres been a grave underestimation of the power of the net in allowing people to pickup their news independent on the establishment and perhaps that the establishment itself has overestimated its ability to run what can pass for a liberal democracy via PR spin.

This seems different to anything I'v seen before in that its not a conservative/liberal partisan issue, the biggest supporters of Israeli actions in the US and Germany, both of them the liberals are actually in power. Were seeing a situation in which so called "democracy" is just so obviously non reflective of public opinion.
 
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moreorless87 said:
Pretty much, honestly I would not be surprised if the actual death tool is now well over 50K with the level of urban destruction were seeing, beyond the ability to keep count being gradually degraded as hospitals are destroyed your potentially having entire families killed leaving nobody to report the deaths.

Honestly I do think what were seeing now in the west is really a key moment, the disparity between public opinion and that of the political/media class is becoming an absolute gulf, support for Israel is dropping away massively with the general population but its not being reflected at all by our establishment beyond some VERY weak PR statements.

I think theres been a grave underestimation of the power of the net in allowing people to pickup their news independent on the establishment and perhaps that the establishment itself has overestimated its ability to run what can pass for a liberal democracy via PR spin.

This seems different to anything I'v seen before in that its not a conservative/liberal partisan issue, the biggest supports of Israeli actions in the US and Germany, both of them the liberals are actually in power. Were seeing a situation in which so called "democracy" is just so obviously non reflective of public opinion.
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They aren't underestimating social media. They are determined to take it over and make it just as reactionary as establishment media. Thats what the Tiktok ban is all about. Thats why right wingers gave TYT(example)tens of millions of dollars back in another life when it was taken seriously. I think the rise of reels/shorts and influencers like Andrew Tate and Jordan Petersen has much to do with it. I think that was a concerted effort to funnel peoples anger and angst into a pro capitalist space after how angry people got in 2020.

The reason I find liberal democracy to be so evil is the gaslighting and pinning the blame on the victims and/or voters. Its always the peoples fault for not electing leaders or not doing something the people gaslighting them know full well they cannot do and could have never have done. Dictatorship is honest about whose in charge and the whole mentality that HereticDB speaks of often(might makes right blah blah blah). But this is the first world order ever built on telling people how wonderful their lives are and how grateful they should be for when their material conditions and the conduct of their govt are the exact opposite of the rhetoric.

Another thing is Frank Luntzification of politics. Where the political class have figured out a positive word for every atrocity you could possibly imagine. And that muddys the waters a whole lot. Learning about him really kinda shatters ones political innocence.
 
ferrisjso said:
They aren't underestimating social media. They are determined to take it over and make it just as reactionary as establishment media. Thats what the Tiktok ban is all about. Thats why right wingers gave TYT(example)tens of millions of dollars back in another life when it was taken seriously. I think the rise of reels/shorts and influencers like Andrew Tate and Jordan Petersen has much to do with it. I think that was a concerted effort to funnel peoples anger and angst into a pro capitalist space after how angry people got in 2020.

The reason I find liberal democracy to be so evil is the gaslighting and pinning the blame on the victims and/or voters. Its always the peoples fault for not electing leaders or not doing something the people gaslighting them know full well they cannot do and could have never have done. Dictatorship is honest about whose in charge and the whole mentality that HereticDB speaks of often(might makes right blah blah blah). But this is the first world order ever built on telling people how wonderful their lives are and how grateful they should be for when their material conditions and the conduct of their govt are the exact opposite of the rhetoric.

Another thing is Frank Luntzification of politics. Where the political class have figured out a positive word for every atrocity you could possibly imagine. And that muddys the waters a whole lot. Learning about him really kinda shatters ones political innocence.
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I'd agree there has been a very strong effort to try and filter all politics into a centralist liberal vs conservative partisan divide but whats happening now I think makes that divide a harder sell than ever. When your talking things like economics its much easier to hide behind jargon and the idea capitalism is the only game in town but here we are talking such an obvious case of immorality in Gaza its very difficult to blind a lot of the public to it yet were seeing that establishment liberials are actually the key supporters of it being almost totally in lockstep with conservatives. Were seeing just how close the two sides really are to each other and that the real conflict is actually between them and genuine progressive politics.

In terms of the net though I think for all the efforts to both use it to push the same partisan climate and to demonise it(often ironically sighting exactly that kind of use) you are dealing with a situation now were people have access to much more unfiltered info. Its much easier to get hold of whats actually happening in Gaza as its actually happening, not having it filter out years latter. A sanitised CNN version of events full of strongly pro Israeli editorial content no longer has the kind of monopoly it did even a decade ago, even such establishment friendly news sources are forced to show more of whats going on to try and retain credibility.
 
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