Charles Olivera was robbed

[Hairrow]

Have him file a police report.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

Oliveira gets cut in grappling training, his eyebrows are full of scartissue. That does not say anything about the damage.

He wasn't cut by Arman looking at him. He got hit and he bled. You can cry scar tissue if you want. But Arman did more damage in both Rounds 2 and 3, period.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Na, it was a competitive fight but Arman clearly won. He did more damage and won the majority of almost every round. 2 submission attempts where we don't even know how close they were due to being at the end of rounds doesn't make up for that. It was closer to 30-27 Arman than it was 29-28 for Oliveira.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

He wasn't robbed but it was close and he would've won rd 3 for sure if knees to a "grounded opponent" were allowed.

Pretty sick of grapplers sitting on there knees like a cheap whore on path to victory. Gotta change that stupid ass rule. Haven't Colorado & maybe Cali adopted knees?

If knees on the ground were allowed Arman would have done a shit load more damage in the first 2 rounds and might have finished him. He was getting pretty easy takedowns throughout the fight.

 

[sdpdude9]

Every single person saying it wasn't close and was an Arman rd never gives any form of explanation as to why. Some people mention the top control which as stated in the rules, is not something that is even scored. I have seen the striking differential mentioned as well but there wasn't any big shots landed in the rd, nothing significant happened in the rd except for that submission attempt.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say it wasn’t close. But while Arman wasn’t scoring big, he was without a doubt winning in the striking and the grappling until the final minute. I don’t think anybody would argue that.

But the question becomes how does one see the sub attempt at the end of the round? If you saw it as a legitimate and close attempt, then of course the right answer is he won the round. But for me, I saw him grab the neck but make no further attempt to advance the submission. He seemed to just use it to hold him in position. To me, it was akin to somebody jumping a guillotine and falling in half guard and just holding it making no attempts to gain full guard or even try to crank it. Yeah, it’s an attempt but is basically just grabbing the neck with no further action. That to me does not weigh heavily.

Now to explain that interpretation, I’ll share a personal experience. I had a jiu jitsu coach that was basically explaining that grabbing a neck is the easiest part of a choke, it’s so easy that it will get guys to commit for too long because they think they got something. But what’s actually difficult is the steps after to complete the choke. That stuck with me. I didn’t see Oliveira take any further steps after grabbing the neck, which is the easy part, so I didn’t see it as a particularly meaningful moment. But that’s just me.

 

[Zankou]

I gave it to Arman but wouldn’t have been shocked to see it go the other way. I agree that close submission attempts, where the opponent is caught for a significant amount of time, should be given significant scoring weight.

People will say that this encourages jumping bad guillotines but if you know anything about submissions you know when a submission attempt is close and when it’s not. Sheer potential incompetence in scoring that shouldn’t be an objection, any more than it is with striking.

 

[Zankou]

Btw while that darce was a good lock it is very difficult to finish from that position. So while I give Olivera credit for a good lock, you usually need to break them down onto their side to finish that darce.

 

[Zankou]

Man he had that triangle/armbar locked in at the end of round one. No way dude was getting out of that. That darce was probably also finished. Saved by the bell twice. Is what it is though. Was a super close fight I can see it either way

The triangle armbar was actually tight. Maybe Arman gave it up because the round was ending though. Not sure.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Every single person saying it wasn't close and was an Arman rd never gives any form of explanation as to why. Some people mention the top control which as stated in the rules, is not something that is even scored. I have seen the striking differential mentioned as well but there wasn't any big shots landed in the rd, nothing significant happened in the rd except for that submission attempt.

It does state that takedowns and top control are scored though


Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.” It shall be noted that a successful takedown is not merely a changing of position, but the establishment of an attack from the use of the takedown. Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position.

&

Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active threatening guard.

You couldnt have guessed because youre an autist

I'm still winning over your down syndrome

Lol hail mary submissions okay

Yes, that is the word. Welcome

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

I wouldn’t go so far as to say it wasn’t close. But while Arman wasn’t scoring big, he was without a doubt winning in the striking and the grappling until the final minute. I don’t think anybody would argue that.

But the question becomes how does one see the sub attempt at the end of the round? If you saw it as a legitimate and close attempt, then of course the right answer is he won the round. But for me, I saw him grab the neck but make no further attempt to advance the submission. He seemed to just use it to hold him in position. To me, it was akin to somebody jumping a guillotine and falling in half guard and just holding it making no attempts to gain full guard or even try to crank it. Yeah, it’s an attempt but is basically just grabbing the neck with no further action. That to me does not weigh heavily.

Now to explain that interpretation, I’ll share a personal experience. I had a jiu jitsu coach that was basically explaining that grabbing a neck is the easiest part of a choke, it’s so easy that it will get guys to commit for too long because they think they got something. But what’s actually difficult is the steps after to complete the choke. That stuck with me. I didn’t see Oliveira take any further steps after grabbing the neck, which is the easy part, so I didn’t see it as a particularly meaningful moment. But that’s just me.

Good break down, not sure if the judges are experts to that extent tho and so many times I've heard from the commentary stuff like "nah he doesn't have it locked up" or "he can't finish from there" then the guy goes unconscious or taps out. The judge that gave it to Oliveira definitely thought it was locked in.

This is a really good take on it tho and I respect your opinion, if Arman really wasn't at a big risk of being choked out there then yeah he should get the rd.

 

[chillyoo]

I could definitely argue the fight for Charles.

Arman had to go limp to avoid being choked out, I thought that was the most significant event of the 3rd and outweighs the control.

I don’t have an issue with how it was called, no robbery. Super close

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

I could definitely argue the fight for Charles.

Arman had to go limp to avoid being choked out, I thought that was the most significant event of the 3rd and outweighs the control.

I don’t have an issue with how it was called, no robbery. Super close

That is the defense though. So he should get points off for successfully defending in a way that takes him out of any danger?

 

[sdpdude9]

Good break down, not sure if the judges are experts to that extent tho and so many times I've heard from the commentary stuff like "nah he doesn't have it locked up" or "he can't finish from there" then the guy goes unconscious or taps out. The judge that gave it to Oliveira definitely thought it was locked in.

This is a really good take on it tho and I respect your opinion, if Arman really wasn't at a big risk of being choked out there then yeah he should get the rd.

Yep, it all comes down to how one interprets that attempt. I wouldn’t say I’m 100% right and any other interpretation is wrong. It’s a matter of opinion because fact is, none of us can know how close it was or wasn’t. I can only explain my interpretation, hope it was somewhat insightful. Appreciate the civil discussion, all too often it’s hard to come by here.

 

[560ti]

Not even remotely close to a robbery

21 media members who do play by play (including 3 out of 3 of the sherdog play by play reporters) all scored it Arman.

That's not a robbery, robbery would be most fans and media scoring it for Charles and Charles still losing.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Yep, it all comes down to how one interprets that attempt. I wouldn’t say I’m 100% right and any other interpretation is wrong. It’s a matter of opinion because fact is, none of us can know how close it was or wasn’t. I can only explain my interpretation, hope it was somewhat insightful. Appreciate the civil discussion, all too often it’s hard to come by here.

Don't worry broseph. I'll do that.

 

[svmr_db]

Robbed lol

Oliveira fans after he's 1-2 in his last 3:

"The champion has a name!!"

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

Yep, it all comes down to how one interprets that attempt. I wouldn’t say I’m 100% right and any other interpretation is wrong. It’s a matter of opinion because fact is, none of us can know how close it was or wasn’t. I can only explain my interpretation, hope it was somewhat insightful. Appreciate the civil discussion, all too often it’s hard to come by here.

Lmao it's nearly impossible sometimes but there are some level headed people here. On the other hand I remember being called a buzz kill and being told to "live a little" for mentioning stats that proved somebody wrong lol. Also got called a dick rider for saying something positive about a fighter who I didn't even like, was actually one of my most disliked fighters xD.

Not everything is a robbery nor is everything a domination. I see people saying stuff like "he got his ass whooped!!" About fights that were super close.

 

[Petarito]

I love Oliveira, but just no. You don’t win a fight by doing no damage getting controlled for three rounds and attempting two submissions.

Also, the judge who scored it in his favour is an idiot.

Dont know

He almost finished Arman 3 fucking times.
In rounds 1 and 3 arman did NOTHING

It was close. I thought as well 29:28 Oliveira

 

[djacobox372]

I gave it to Charles. It's hard to give a guy a round for "control" when he was the one getting caught in submissions.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

nah