Pac vs Rios - Fight discussion

[Wanderlei4Life]

Posted this in the other thread

The Manny I saw last night was definitely not the Manny from 2008-2010. Time has definitely robbed him of some speed and power.

However he still has good output, enough cardio, southpaw speed, and enough pop in his hands to give Floyd his toughest test. If it's truly "easy work" for Floyd, he should do it and get this last nail into the coffin of a legendary career. Without it, there will always be that "what if?"

If they fought soon, I would favor Floyd 70-30. Back then it was truly a 50-50 fight.

 

[Genki Sudo II]

As the biggest manny fan here , mayweather has looked nothing short of perfect in his last several fights. The only time he looked potentially vulnerable was against cotto.

Mayweathers style of fighting doesn't necessitate taking hard shots. How often do you see him take a flush shot? Rarely....this is why he has such a long shelf fighter as a fighter.

Manny looked great last night, but i see PBf out pointing him.

It makes me the only person who thinks Pac will beat Floyd.

 

[Wanderlei4Life]

I'm going to rewatch the fight. I was too wasted last night. Maybe I will see something different.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

It makes me the only person who thinks Pac will beat Floyd.

The Pacquiao who destroyed Hatton and Cotton could very well have given PBF a run for his money. (no pun intended)

Father time has slowed pac down a little, and has watered down his killer instinct a tad.

Whereas, Mayweather due to his incredible training regimen and his damn near impenetrable defense, he has been able to not only stay a step ahead of all of his opponents but also Father time. Watch the mayweather against Diego Corrales. (arguably his best performance of his career). Then watch what PBF did to Robert Guerrero and Canelo...

the man hasn't really lost a step.

Another factor to take into consideration is that Manny's most problematic opponent has been JMM by far...and JMM is the second best counter puncher in boxing today. Mayweather is #1 by far in boxing acumen, counter punching, and technical skill.

If JMM can give Manny fits, imagine what a well conditioned, incredibly trained, and prepared Floyd can do.


Again, I would love to see Manny put PBF on his ass and dethrone him...but I'm a realist as well.


Sorry for the long response. I just pulled a "Consortium" on you.

 

[Wanderlei4Life]

JMM and Floyd are two very different counter fighters though. JMM is will to exchange in the pocket with you where Floyd blocks, pops a shot then moves. JMM also had 4 fights to know Pac's style and moves.

However Floyd recently has not faced opponents who had footwork to keep up with him and speed. Pac can bring both of this to the table. Out of all the realistic opponents out there 154 and under, Pac still has the best shot to beat Floyd and give him a real fight.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

JMM and Floyd are two very different counter fighters though. JMM is will to exchange in the pocket with you where Floyd blocks, pops a shot then moves. JMM also had 4 fights to know Pac's style and moves.

However Floyd recently has not faced opponents who had footwork to keep up with him and speed. Pac can bring both of this to the table. Out of all the realistic opponents out there 154 and under, Pac still has the best shot to beat Floyd and give him a real fight.

Good points you raise. I agree with your last statment. Out of anyone around that weight class, Manny has the best shot. Followed by TIm bradley.

 

[Genki Sudo II]

The Pacquiao who destroyed Hatton and Cotton could very well have given PBF a run for his money. (no pun intended)

Father time has slowed pac down a little, and has watered down his killer instinct a tad.

Whereas, Mayweather due to his incredible training regimen and his damn near impenetrable defense, he has been able to not only stay a step ahead of all of his opponents but also Father time. Watch the mayweather against Diego Corrales. (arguably his best performance of his career). Then watch what PBF did to Robert Guerrero and Canelo...

the man hasn't really lost a step.

Another factor to take into consideration is that Manny's most problematic opponent has been JMM by far...and JMM is the second best counter puncher in boxing today. Mayweather is #1 by far in boxing acumen, counter punching, and technical skill.

If JMM can give Manny fits, imagine what a well conditioned, incredibly trained, and prepared Floyd can do.


Again, I would love to see Manny put PBF on his ass and dethrone him...but I'm a realist as well.


Sorry for the long response. I just pulled a "Consortium" on you.

JMM 4 was an abomination. Manny was on the way to pulling the most convincing win of all their encounters.

Manny will push the issue with JMM, where I don't see Pac being as reckless with a potential Floyd. You don't think Manny would adjust?

 

[Possum Jenkins]

2008-2010 was the best time for Pac-Mayweather. That fight would have broken all the records and would have amazing inside the ring. 50-50 like a lot of people were saying.

Nowadays, they've both slowed but Pac has done so faster and he's taken a brutal KO on top of that.

I still want to see it, however, even if it won't be nearly as exciting. 2014 has to be the year.

 

[heavyarms21]

I just Marvel at how Well Floyd has taken care of himself because he is older and looks like he has loss less of a step in comparison to Pacman

 

[Sirwastealot]

The difference is that Pac has had a lot more fights than Mayweather and has fought much better competition. Of course he has more milage, that`s what happens when you don`t cherry pick guys.

Pac: Moralesx3, Barrerax2, Marquezx4, a fresher Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, Hatton, Bradley, DLH, Mosley.

Dude has consistently fought the best. If May fought the same level of comp he`d be slowing down a bit more too.

You say a fresher Cotto but just DLH as if Floyd didn't fight a better version of DLH.

Pacman hasn't fought MUCH better competition, that's just a biased statement. Most of their best opponents have fought both guys.

 

[Seano]

The difference is that Pac has had a lot more fights than Mayweather and has fought much better competition. Of course he has more milage, that`s what happens when you don`t cherry pick guys.

Pac: Moralesx3, Barrerax2, Marquezx4, a fresher Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, Hatton, Bradley, DLH, Mosley.

Dude has consistently fought the best. If May fought the same level of comp he`d be slowing down a bit more too.

Why didn't you list the quality guys Floyd fought even though you listed guys Pac fought that Floyd fought as the best?

Castillo, Corrales, a "fresher" Oscar, a "fresher" Hatton, Cotto, Canelo, a "fresher" Mosley, Juan Manuel Marquez,Carlos Baldomir (if you're listing Clottey, I'm listing Baldo) Genaro Hernandez....

your post doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

 

[Terp]

Why didn't you list the quality guys Floyd fought even though you listed guys Pac fought that Floyd fought as the best?

Castillo, Corrales, a "fresher" Oscar, a "fresher" Hatton, Cotto, Canelo, a "fresher" Mosley, Juan Manuel Marquez,Carlos Baldomir (if you're listing Clottey, I'm listing Baldo) Genaro Hernandez....

your post doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

Mayweather just schools everyone he faces so people assume he is cherry picking.

 

[WatchMeDoMe**]

Plus honestly I think the Cotto Floyd fought was better than the one Pac fought. Cotto himself believes he got better after the Pacquiao loss

 

[Sirwastealot]

Mayweather just schools everyone he faces so people assume he is cherry picking.

Thats not a good excuse. Only someone extremely dumb would form opinions that way.

 

[Terp]

Thats not a good excuse. Only someone extremely dumb would form opinions that way.

Exactly.

 

[Breaducce]

JMM and Floyd are two very different counter fighters though. JMM is will to exchange in the pocket with you where Floyd blocks, pops a shot then moves. JMM also had 4 fights to know Pac's style and moves.

However Floyd recently has not faced opponents who had footwork to keep up with him and speed. Pac can bring both of this to the table. Out of all the realistic opponents out there 154 and under, Pac still has the best shot to beat Floyd and give him a real fight.

Yes Floyd is more selective than JMM about when to throw his punches but I would consider that an advantage against an opponent like Manny. Although, Marquez experienced huge success against Pac, his willingness to get into small fire fights and take one shot to give a better one got him dropped and hurt numerous times during the four fights.

As you say Floyd slips, ducks/rolls punches in the pocket, lands power punches and gets out of range suffering minimal to zero damage in the process. And he seems to land some real quality shots in the pocket that slow his opponents down and keep them off of him. This often leads to him teeing off on them at range, later in the fight. And Pac's style is pretty straight forward, devastating but straight foward. Canelo has more variety to his game than Pac and look what happened to him.

 

[ZroC]

LOL
So much for showing up for a cheque, Tor had his purse withheld.

 

[rolex]

LOL
So much for showing up for a cheque, Tor had his purse withheld.

He did?? I don't know whether to feel bad for him or laugh at him

 

[Genki Sudo II]

You`re comparing Baldo to Clottey:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol: Come on man. Thats a joke.

The Marquez win can`t really be taken seriously considering that Marquez was moving up in weight and Floyd also didn`t even make weight. Too big a size differential and it showed.

You listing guys like Genaro Hernandez and Baldomir just shows your grasping for straws. In that case I might as well list guys like Oscar Larios and David Diaz for Pac.

Also your fresher argument only applies to Hatton who was stopped by Floyd. DLH and Mosley just lost decisions to Floyd. DLH only lost a split dec to Floyd and was actually the favorite over Pac when they fought (Pac was moving up from 35 to 47, everyone thought the much bigger dlh would crush him). DLH and Mosley both fought Pac only a year after losing decisions to Floyd.

I called Cotto fresher against Manny because Manny destroyed him nearly 3 years before he fought Floyd.

Pac: Moralesx3, Barrerax2, Marquezx4, a fresher Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, Hatton, Bradley, DLH, Mosley, Larios, Diaz.

Mayweather: DLH, Castillox2, Corrales, Judah, older Cotto, Mosley, Hatton, Baldo, Hernandez, Marquez.

I see big 18 fights on Manny`s list to 11 for Mayweathers. Looks like my post holds up fine.

This. Floyd fought a pudgy looking Marquez going up in weight in a long time while Manny fought a juiced up version of JMM and Manny was on his way to his most convincing victory out of the series until the K.O. which Manny took for granted having fought 3 previous non-juiced incarnations of JMM.

 

[Genki Sudo II]

Yes Floyd is more selective than JMM about when to throw his punches but I would consider that an advantage against an opponent like Manny. Although, Marquez experienced huge success against Pac, his willingness to get into small fire fights and take one shot to give a better one got him dropped and hurt numerous times during the four fights.

As you say Floyd slips, ducks/rolls punches in the pocket, lands power punches and gets out of range suffering minimal to zero damage in the process. And he seems to land some real quality shots in the pocket that slow his opponents down and keep them off of him. This often leads to him teeing off on them at range, later in the fight. And Pac's style is pretty straight forward, devastating but straight foward. Canelo has more variety to his game than Pac and look what happened to him.

U are underestimating Roach's game plan and Manny's smarts. He would never go straight at Floyd. He used Rios as a good sparring session to acclimate into his more lateral bobbing/weaving approach.