Serious Movie Discussion XLII

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I watched It Follows twice this Halloween season, and though I like it more than I did on my initial viewing, I'm not sure if I'm ready to say I'm a fan overall.

The concept is very cool. The characters play off each other well, the setting is strangely unsettling, and the soundtrack feels classic.

It's not very scary though, and tends to plod. Once it hits the pool scene I'm barely hanging on. Never really works its way back up to the gravitas of the beginning.

97% on RT seems generous. I feel like people must have been starving for something that was at least tolerable around the time it came out, and clung onto the most acceptable thing they could find.
 
This card man, what the hell?! Never been this pumped and happy with the results.
 
If were in the mood for extended analysis I watched The Lobster again with a friend as a very strange John C Reilly double bill with Step Brothers, I won't bother with a decription as surely non viewers can google it.

Still just as nice to look at whilst pushing the boundry between dark comedy and disturbing(Yorgos Lanthimos does seem to have picked out the two things that do this most to me, violence to animals and people being blinded) tragedy but I must admit that part of what came to mind is that it seemed aimed more specifically at the net and a lot of discussion we get in places like this.

The stilted way the characters communicate does seem to mirror the impersonal nature of a lof of net posting and the two "sides" of the story a lot of the viewpoints. You have those on the "relationship" side looking to define attraction by the most simplistic net dating kind of characteristics whilst those on the "single" side ending up as a kind of isolated red pill style sociopathy.
 
Watched the above partly as a buildup to seeing Lanthimos latest film KIlling Of A Sacred Deer although in terms of style this actually felt more like a return to his earlier Dogtooth with less(although still definitely present) humour and more strange family dysfunction. Indeed this time I think you see him really push this aspect as hard as he ever has making for a truly disturbing(although not intensively graphic by modern standards) film.

I'm guessing a lot of people who were disappointed by Aronofsky's Mother!'s grand pretensions might well preffer this, it does have a massive conceit at the centre of its plot and Lanthimos trademark stunted/deadpan dialog(most of the drama being sold non verbally) but keeps its focus much more on its characters. If I had to describe it to non viewers of his previous work I would say imagine Kubricks The Shining(with a bit of Eyes Wide Shut) mixed with Lost Highway/Mullholland Drive era David Lynch with the quirkiness played up a bit more.

Again this isn't knowing modern jump scare style slasher horror ride so don't go in expecting that, its both much slower burning and a lot more unsettlingly than that. It is becoming strange just how big a divide there is between Colin Farrell's attempts at mainstream success that seem cursed to crash and burn and how many quality artier films he's in.

 
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@Dragonlordxxxxx link me the Suicide squad thread
As much as I like helping you, I think it's time you learned how to use the Search function.


@Dragonlordxxxxx link me the logan thread

Dragon link me the Batman vs superman thread

@Dragonlordxxxxx link me to the force awakens thread

Link me to the guardians 2 thread.

Arrival? @Dragonlordxxxxx link me the thread



STEP 1
Click the Magnifying Glass icon located on the upper right corner.
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STEP 2
Type in the key words for the title of the thread you are looking for. It helps if you 1.) check the "Search titles only" and 2.) type in the member's name that created the thread.
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STEP 3
Oops. Ignore this part.
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STEP 4
Type in the key words, check "Search titles only" box and type in name of the TS. Press "Search" and you're good to go.
v7vjEe4.jpg
 
As much as I like helping you, I think it's time you learned how to use the Search function.














STEP 1
Click the Magnifying Glass icon located on the upper right corner.
GOMGQIo.jpg



STEP 2
Type in the key words for the title of the thread you are looking for. It helps if you 1.) check the "Search titles only" and 2.) type in the member's name that created the thread.
ZwpJXiw.jpg



STEP 3
Oops. Ignore this part.
LxLtczh.jpg



STEP 4
Type in the key words, check "Search titles only" box and type in name of the TS. Press "Search" and you're good to go.
v7vjEe4.jpg
You and I are through. THROUGH
 
If were in the mood for extended analysis I watched The Lobster again with a friend as a very strange John C Reilly double bill with Step Brothers, I won't bother with a decription as surely non viewers can google it.

Still just as nice to look at whilst pushing the boundry between dark comedy and disturbing(Yorgos Lanthimos does seem to have picked out the two things that do this most to me, violence to animals and people being blinded) tragedy but I must admit that part of what came to mind is that it seemed aimed more specifically at the net and a lot of discussion we get in places like this.

The stilted way the characters communicate does seem to mirror the impersonal nature of a lof of net posting and the two "sides" of the story a lot of the viewpoints. You have those on the "relationship" side looking to define attraction by the most simplistic net dating kind of characteristics whilst those on the "single" side ending up as a kind of isolated red pill style sociopathy.

I absolutely hated The Lobster.
 
Finally got around to watching Sicario and I must admit I was very disappointed, really didn't rate it very highly at all. It just seemed like the problems I had with BR 2049(which I'd still rate 8/10ish) multiplied, an air of for me frankly undeserved self importance around it with drawn out scenes that weren't nearly as interesting as they thought they were dramatically/visually and some seriously undercooks characters/plot. I mean parts of it do look nice and the performances aren't bad at all but I didn't buy this as some meaningful mood piece it seemed to consider itself as.
 
Finally got around to watching Sicario and I must admit I was very disappointed, really didn't rate it very highly at all. It just seemed like the problems I had with BR 2049(which I'd still rate 8/10ish) multiplied, an air of for me frankly undeserved self importance around it with drawn out scenes that weren't nearly as interesting as they thought they were dramatically/visually and some seriously undercooks characters/plot. I mean parts of it do look nice and the performances aren't bad at all but I didn't buy this as some meaningful mood piece it seemed to consider itself as.

That's next on my list, wonder if I'll think the same.
 
That's next on my list, wonder if I'll think the same.

A big factor I spose is how much you like the visual style of it, a lot of my favourite cinema is slow paced atmospheric stuff but outside of the odd shot(the distant thunderstorm for example) this didn't really hit me, a lot of scenes that seemed to think they were communicating a feeling just came off as rather blank and your left with a rather fractured plot without that.
 
Hey @Dragonlordxxxxx: Why didn't I know that Vincent D'Onofrio was the villain in the Netflix Daredevil? I'm eight episodes in and it's just a blatant ripoff of Batman Begins but D'Onofrio is killing it. If you can answer this without spoilers: Will he be in any future Marvel movies? I haven't yet watched the other Netflix Marvel shows or The Defenders, so I have no idea how any of this fits into the MCU, but I'd fucking love to see D'Onofrio mixing it up with the likes of RDJ and Samuel L. Jackson.

Also, Sigh wanted me to ask you if you could link any Daredevil threads...

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You should see it.

I will.



they can understand us because we don't have an accent.

<seedat>

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Yea. And just to maybe tie together the jargon for normal people, you can kind of see how each of these questions extend from Descartes' basic line of inquiry. From "can I know anything?" to "can I know myself?" to "can I know what is outside myself?" to "can I know others (distinct things like myself)?" These questions might seem like they can be easily dismissed, but it's also notable that they aren't obligated to have the same answer. One could know himself necessarily, for example, but only know the world provisionally, or others practically, and these answers could inform an ethical system in totally different ways.

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Don't think we didn't notice the conspicuous articulation of your 3 little propositions ;)

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The responses were alright - maybe a little dismissive of the problem [...] BUT I understand you were under a time constraint and also generally in opposition to the (strength of the) problems

The latter more than anything. I worry about how common sense has become the enemy in so many "intellectual" movements. Contrariwise, I wanted to embrace it and convey that it's ok to rely on it.

And for the record, I watched both parts at 1.25x speed :cool:

I don't even want to imagine how crazy (or how much crazier) I sound sped up :eek:

I have not, but that source sounds legit and I plan on checking it out ASAP.

If you can get your hands on this copy (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false) I'm sure you'd enjoy rummaging through it.

My point about Neo is not that there's a right answer about his reality that he perceives when he's young and misperceives when he's old. It's that the answer literally changes for him as time passes [...] Actually, another useful example here could be Tarkovsky's Solaris. Remember how quickly Kris is willing to accept Hari as - if not authentic, then authentic enough. I think most of us are inclined to see this as weakness, or a betrayal of his *proper* reality and the mission that extends from it. But couldn't he also be partially correct that his realest life was when he was together with her, and that even an imitation could actually bring him back in touch with that reality?

I'm intrigued by that idea. There are others that are just as interesting that come from the same general sympathy towards what I may dare call subjectivism.

Does that make any sense?

Everything you said there makes sense. This portion in particular stands out as, in the best sense of the word, challenging. I get where you're coming from with the sympathy for subjectivism, but I could never be satisfied with authentic - or right, or good, or real - enough. It feels too much like merely moving the goalpost. I may be able to steal a few moments of peace by considering something authentic or right or good or real enough, but inevitably, I'd have to ask myself if it was just authentic or right or good or real enough to me or if it was really authentic or right or good or real. Playing games of self-deception like that, even if in the ostensible guise of peace/happiness, isn't a sustainable form of life for me. The angel on my shoulder would berate the devil on my other shoulder the way Kramer berates Jerry:



Regarding your Solaris example, I'm inclined to consider Kris' acceptance of Hari as weakness. I'm also inclined to point out that Kris first - and pretty much immediately - "kills" Hari before he accepts her, interestingly reversing the course of events in Inception. More interesting still, in neither case does the husband actually "kill" the wife, since in Solaris she essentially kills herself and in Inception she's killed by someone else. I don't know what to do with any of that. Just interesting to note.

A fun exercise to really illustrate the question I'm asking could be to go through movies with a similar premise and ask what tools they use to convince you that a certain reality is the right one. Perception of origin seems to have a bunch of weight here, in Inception the story begins in the "actual" reality where in The Matrix we're told that we actually pre-existed the "false" reality by being physically born into the "real" one.

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Do you have a name for this game? How about "Caveat's Cinematic Reality Detector"?

What are some other criteria one should be on the lookout for in addition to "perception of origin"?

I watched It Follows twice this Halloween season, and though I like it more than I did on my initial viewing, I'm not sure if I'm ready to say I'm a fan overall.

That one was a massive disappointment.

Finally got around to watching Sicario and I must admit I was very disappointed
That's next on my list, wonder if I'll think the same.

My assessment from back when I watched it was "average if not above average with characterization trouble as the major problem weighing down what could've been an even better and more bad ass movie." My sense of the source of the problem was uncertainty on the screenwriting level of how to balance the Benicio/Blunt split, which resulted in what I think was accurately characterized by moreorless as a fractured plot.
 
I finally bought The Train blu ray. 37 dollars compared to the 70 it used to go for is a good deal.


@Flemmy Stardust have you seen it yet? It's a classic action movie
 
Let's see, haven't posted anything in a while (have been going through a pretty empty patch for watching films) but the most recent films I have watched are both from the 70s.

The Shout
The-shout-poster.jpg

Bit of a weird one from 1978, starring Alan Bates, Susannah York and John Hurt. It's about a strange wanderer who imposes himself into the lives of a couple in a rural english town, taking advantage of their hospitality. Anthony, the husband, is an avante-garde composer (and also the local church organist). The man, called Crossley, claims to have spent the last several years living amongst aboriginals in Australia where he supposedly learned the power of the "terror shout" from an Aboriginal shaman, a sound which kills anyone who hears it unprotected...but it's unclear whether or not he's telling the truth or not. Gradually a strange relationship develops between the three characters and a general feeling of unease begins to take over. It's not really a horror film, but it has a very creepy vibe in general. Overall it's definitely worth a watch. It's a very interesting, albeit strange and puzzling, film. Some very good performances all round, nice shooting locations and a cool soundtrack by members of Genesis. There is something I really like about 70s films.

And a few weeks ago I watched The Last Wave
82d393cccc1e537da96fbc1023f658a8--peter-weir-peter-otoole.jpg

An Australian film from 1977. Oddly enough this one also concerns aboriginal magic, though being Australian it's obviously much more direct. It's about a lawyer, David Burton, who takes on a case defending aborigines on a murder charge. The murder seems to involve some kind of ritualistic tribal elements, but the men deny tribal associations (which aren't common in Sydney). Burton begins
having odd nightmares/apocalyptic visions relating to water and floods, slowly he begins to realise that he has some kind of connection to the aborigines and their tribal prophecies...
Another enjoyable one that I would definitely recommend, interesting blend of murder-mystery, a little bit of courtroom drama and a pervading apocalyptic tension throughout, though, of course, the ending is never fully resolved.
 
Hey @Dragonlordxxxxx: Why didn't I know that Vincent D'Onofrio was the villain in the Netflix Daredevil? I'm eight episodes in and it's just a blatant ripoff of Batman Begins but D'Onofrio is killing it. If you can answer this without spoilers: Will he be in any future Marvel movies? I haven't yet watched the other Netflix Marvel shows or The Defenders, so I have no idea how any of this fits into the MCU, but I'd fucking love to see D'Onofrio mixing it up with the likes of RDJ and Samuel L. Jackson.
As of now, there are no plans for any of the Marvel-Netflix characters to appear in the movies despite existing in the same MCU. There's a rift between the movie division and TV division (if you want me to expound on this, just let me know) and that's why the movies are ignoring what's happening on TV.

Also, Sigh wanted me to ask you if you could link any Daredevil threads...

dori8Go.png
<{1-1}>
 
Let's see, haven't posted anything in a while (have been going through a pretty empty patch for watching films) but the most recent films I have watched are both from the 70s.

The Shout
The-shout-poster.jpg

Bit of a weird one from 1978, starring Alan Bates, Susannah York and John Hurt. It's about a strange wanderer who imposes himself into the lives of a couple in a rural english town, taking advantage of their hospitality. Anthony, the husband, is an avante-garde composer (and also the local church organist). The man, called Crossley, claims to have spent the last several years living amongst aboriginals in Australia where he supposedly learned the power of the "terror shout" from an Aboriginal shaman, a sound which kills anyone who hears it unprotected...but it's unclear whether or not he's telling the truth or not. Gradually a strange relationship develops between the three characters and a general feeling of unease begins to take over. It's not really a horror film, but it has a very creepy vibe in general. Overall it's definitely worth a watch. It's a very interesting, albeit strange and puzzling, film. Some very good performances all round, nice shooting locations and a cool soundtrack by members of Genesis. There is something I really like about 70s films.

And a few weeks ago I watched The Last Wave
82d393cccc1e537da96fbc1023f658a8--peter-weir-peter-otoole.jpg

An Australian film from 1977. Oddly enough this one also concerns aboriginal magic, though being Australian it's obviously much more direct. It's about a lawyer, David Burton, who takes on a case defending aborigines on a murder charge. The murder seems to involve some kind of ritualistic tribal elements, but the men deny tribal associations (which aren't common in Sydney). Burton begins
having odd nightmares/apocalyptic visions relating to water and floods, slowly he begins to realise that he has some kind of connection to the aborigines and their tribal prophecies...
Another enjoyable one that I would definitely recommend, interesting blend of murder-mystery, a little bit of courtroom drama and a pervading apocalyptic tension throughout, though, of course, the ending is never fully resolved.


I liked the Last Wave too. I don't know if it's the type of film I'd revisit, but I remember finding it thought-provoking and interesting at the time.

The Shout sounds good. I'm always looking for creepy/verge horror movies with credible actors. Never even heard of that one till you mentioned it. I'll try to check it out.
 
I liked the Last Wave too. I don't know if it's the type of film I'd revisit, but I remember finding it thought-provoking and interesting at the time.

The Shout sounds good. I'm always looking for creepy/verge horror movies with credible actors. Never even heard of that one till you mentioned it. I'll try to check it out.

Yeah I heard of The Shout through an underrated 70s films thread on another forum I am on. Glad I checked it out though, it's good!
 
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