I'm not sure GSP should really get credit as a 2 division champion

Not at all. You don't defend championships in the NFL.

But some championship teams are clearly better than others. So if official champ doesn't mean real champ in the UFC, why would it mean real champ in the NFL? Organizations set their rules for how a champ is determined, and who they say is champ is in fact by definition champ.

You might argue that an organization's championship doesn't mean much, but that's very different than saying their official champ isn't their champ.
 
Nothing against him, but he beat a past prime bisping. Who wasn't even a top 5 fighter. On some level we have to take off the rose coloured glasses and see that win for what It was.

It was a good win and a good performance having been off for 4 years but It certainly shouldn't have been a championship fight.

We all know Bisping was the equivalent of Matt serra when It comes to credibility as a champion.

That said, no hate on him for not staying at middleweight. No reason for him to fight the killers of that divisionn at this stage of his career,
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But some championship teams are clearly better than others. So if official champ doesn't mean real champ in the UFC, why would it mean real champ in the NFL? Organizations set their rules for how a champ is determined, and who they say is champ is in fact by definition champ.

You might argue that an organization's championship doesn't mean much, but that's very different than saying their official champ isn't their champ.

True.
 
No he wasn't.

Like I said, you have to break the connection between "champion" and "best fighter". Lots of times those two correlate with one another, but not always.

That's why Matt Serra was an underdog to GSP in their second fight despite beating him directly AND being the champion.

Bisping was the rightful champion (and deserves respect for what he did accomplish). But he was *very* clearly not the best fighter in the division.

what are you arguing here?
 
No he wasn't.

Like I said, you have to break the connection between "champion" and "best fighter". Lots of times those two correlate with one another, but not always.

That's why Matt Serra was an underdog to GSP in their second fight despite beating him directly AND being the champion.

Bisping was the rightful champion (and deserves respect for what he did accomplish). But he was *very* clearly not the best fighter in the division.

here maybe you should read this take on things, maybe get your head on right

AnotherOldGuy said:
But some championship teams are clearly better than others. So if official champ doesn't mean real champ in the UFC, why would it mean real champ in the NFL? Organizations set their rules for how a champ is determined, and who they say is champ is in fact by definition champ.

You might argue that an organization's championship doesn't mean much, but that's very different than saying their official champ isn't their champ.
 
Nothing against him, but he beat a past prime bisping. Who wasn't even a top 5 fighter. On some level we have to take off the rose coloured glasses and see that win for what It was.

It was a good win and a good performance having been off for 4 years but It certainly shouldn't have been a championship fight.

We all know Bisping was the equivalent of Matt serra when It comes to credibility as a champion.

That said, no hate on him for not staying at middleweight. No reason for him to fight the killers of that divisionn at this stage of his career,

You can dispute "strength of schedule", particularly the MW. But he was the man in two weight divisions before he beat the men (WHOOOOO!).

Are you going to take away Bisping's credential as a former champion because he beat a guy that should've known better? I guess Buster Douglas didn't win against Mike Tyson either huh?
 
You can dispute "strength of schedule", particularly the MW. But he was the man in two weight divisions before he beat the men (WHOOOOO!).

Are you going to take away Bisping's credential as a former champion because he beat a guy that should've known better? I guess Buster Douglas didn't win against Mike Tyson either huh?
Like I said, he's the equivalent of Matt serra In terms of legitimacy as a champion. That's the reality.

What you said Isn't necessarily untrue but I think we need to be a little objective here.
 
He announced he doesn't want to come back to MW today.

He will never be considered a 2 division champ in my eyes.....Whitaker was the champ the second he beat Jacare and Romero......

Calling GSP a 2 division champ cheapens the accomplishment.....

Bisping sat on the belt for 518 days (17 months) without ever defending against a top MW. Thats enough time for 4 of 5 fights. Meanwhile, Whitaker beat Jacare and Romero. Whitakers belt is the real one.

Nope GSP's belt is the real one because GSP beat the real champ, the guy who beat Luke Rockhold who was the real champ before Bisping that's the way it works.

Two good wins does not mean your automatically considered the real champ. When Rockhold won the belt he had a great 5 fight win streak but at the end of the day he still got KO'd by Bisping. Maybe the same would have happened to Whittaker who knows. That's the thing about this sport you don't know until the fight actually happens. That's why playing fantasy scenarios like this doesn't ever work because MMA is to unpredictable. It's easier to just follow the belt.
 
Like I said, he's the equivalent of Matt serra In terms of legitimacy as a champion. That's the reality.

What you said Isn't necessarily untrue but I think we need to be a little objective here.

"Isn't necessarily untrue"???

I've accepted that yes, his strength of schedule may not be the toughest but he beat the guy that was the champion, and ergo became a champion, in a second weight division. You may not want to give him kudos for it, but it's a fact.

You can argue that in the annals for multi weight division UFC champions his position is not the highest, but don't try to take that away from the guy.

FWIW, off the top of my head, for the multi division champions at this time, I'd rank them something along the lines of:

Randy Couture
daylight
GSP
BJ Penn
Conor McGregor

Randy defended both titles multiple times. GSP and BJ never defended both titles (as yet in the case of GSP) so I've ranked them on title defences in primary division and then Conor who has yet to defend either of the titles he's won (I'm at this stage ignoring the interim title)
 
Agreed.

He is a two division champion, that's a fact. But what a lame ass one.
 
I'm a GSP fan but let's be honest here.

But he only came back when a obviously easy matchup was there, who by all accounts is barely a top 5 MW.

Say what you want about Conor, or him beating Eddie Alvarez, but atleast he signed to fight RDA too, and would have clearly fought any LW for that Belt. Does anyone see GSP challenging anyone but Bisping?
 
I'm a GSP fan but let's be honest here.

But he only came back when a obviously easy matchup was there, who by all accounts is barely a top 5 MW.

Say what you want about Conor, or him beating Eddie Alvarez, but atleast he signed to fight RDA too, and would have clearly fought any LW for that Belt. Does anyone see GSP challenging anyone but Bisping?
I am a big fan of Conor but at least GSP defended his belt. Numerous times at that.
 
I am a big fan of Conor but at least GSP defended his belt. Numerous times at that.
Everyone knows that.
But that's completely beside the point I was making.

Obviously GSP is the far greater champ and higher on the P4P list.

They were keeping Bisping away from top contenders for a reason, and GSP won't fight those same contenders. So the MW belt is incredibly devalued imo
 
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