Is Trump a historical liar?

[MMAViewer]

Trump creates his own truth he doesn't have time for your pleb groupthink

But for real, im not sure Trump really realizes he's lying. I think he actually believes what he says

The exact definition of narcissism!

 

[kpt018]

All politicians lie quite a bit. It's part of the job description.

Most of them can't get away with making up or lying about facts.. but they certainly have the market cornered on lying about what they are going to and their promises are bullshit 75 percent of the time. Saying one thing, and doing another is par for the course.

But yes, I agree, Trump will try to get away with lying about facts and unfortunately a lot of people believe him even when he's called on it.

I don't think that's true, 75% is ridiculous.

The reasons politicians are perceived that way is 1) some are massive liars (like Trump) 2) even if they're mostly truthful a lie regarding something that is hugely important will make them seem like a bigger liar than they are 3) politicians get attacked constantly by opponents giving the impression they lie more than they do 4) people find politicians that avoid answering questions as dishonest.

I'm sure I'm missing some but I really think in most cases the amount people think politicians lie it's really over exaggerated. Plus the point was they lie less than regular people. Lot's of regular people are big time bullshitters.

 

[Gervinho]

Trump is different from any other politician I seen. He lies about so many things he doesnt have to lie about or even asked about. He can get a simple question on the economy and rambles for 5 mins talking about the economy, then few lies about immigration and couple more about the media. Which cteates whole more questions the interviewer never even intended to ask and he has to lie more. His inability to stay on topic is so funny

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

He's like a reverse George Washington, he always has to tell a lie

 

[kpt018]

You have surrounded yourself, with entirely the wrong people, if that is true.

I think your bullshit detector needs some work. Also, I don't get to choose who I work with (exception being people I hire who I actively seek honest people).

Maybe I just cross more people than you do. I live on Long Island and work in NYC, how about you? I'm only asking because if you live in a rural area that would explain a lot.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I don't think that's true, 75% is ridiculous.

The reasons politicians are perceived that way is 1) some are massive liars (like Trump) 2) even if they're mostly truthful a lie regarding something that is hugely important will make them seem like a bigger liar than they are 3) politicians get attacked constantly by opponents giving the impression they lie more than they do 4) people find politicians that avoid answering questions as dishonest.

I'm sure I'm missing some but I really think in most cases the amount people think politicians lie it's really over exaggerated. Plus the point was they lie less than regular people. Lot's of regular people are big time bullshitters.

Exactly. Great post.

Another I'd add is that journalists often try to put politicians in the position of saying unpopular things or oversimplifying issues, which gives them motivation to either lie or avoid the question (which then gets regarded as dishonesty, especially by people who don't like them to begin with).

 

[JSnake]

There's a disparity in the amount of questions asked, presidential activity, and the general hostility of the media. Obama was getting questions like "What enchants you?" in comparison to Trump, who the media has been vigorously attacking even before he stepped into office.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I think your bullshit detector needs some work. Also, I don't get to choose who I work with (exception being people I hire who I actively seek honest people).

Maybe I just cross more people than you do. I live on Long Island and work in NYC, how about you? I'm only asking because if you live in a rural area that would explain a lot.

My BS detector is working just fine.

You have a choice to make on who you talk to at work.

People that lie to me, aren't welcome in my life.

 

[TeTe]

I don't think that's true, 75% is ridiculous.

The reasons politicians are perceived that way is 1) some are massive liars (like Trump) 2) even if they're mostly truthful a lie regarding something that is hugely important will make them seem like a bigger liar than they are 3) politicians get attacked constantly by opponents giving the impression they lie more than they do 4) people find politicians that avoid answering questions as dishonest.

I'm sure I'm missing some but I really think in most cases the amount people think politicians lie it's really over exaggerated. Plus the point was they lie less than regular people. Lot's of regular people are big time bullshitters.

To me, changing positions (flip flopping as the political circles call it) is still lying to me. I'm not saying people aren't entitled to change their opinions, but when you do it to appease the audience you're standing in front of or doing it when you are called out on your opinion and instantly change your tune and/or deny things you've said... you lied at some point.. before or after. Rand Paul did this during the primaries and really aggravated me. He gets called out for saying that we should cut off Israel, a position I strongly agree with, and then gets heat from the GOP for it and immediately back tracks. So which is it? I admired that he had the balls to say it and a week he didn't mean it? How about Hillary and her abortion stance over the years? Don't deny that you said in the past that you made pro life comments because you're getting heat for it during the primaries.

John McCain is really bad about this too.

 

[gspieler]

I think people lie a lot, politicians less than most. Also, most politicians at least try to keep their promises. Haven't seen a study on lower offices, but at the presidential level, the normal success rate is around 70%, and the normal attempt rate is around 100%. What Trump is is more of a regular, sleazy guy in a position where we normally expect someone of very high character.

I'm skeptical of your claim politicians(on average) lie less than the general public. Even assuming it's true, the magnitude and outcomes that are a result of their lies, are far more severe than little white lies told by the gen public.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Exactly. Great post.

Another I'd add is that journalists often try to put politicians in the position of saying unpopular things or oversimplifying issues, which gives them motivation to either lie or avoid the question (which then gets regarded as dishonesty, especially by people who don't like them to begin with).

Ok, I see where you are coming from, but is there is difference between telling your wife that dress doesn't mame her was look fat, and the lies politicians tell?

Most of the people in my life don't tell big lies

 

[44nutman]

His daddy only gave him a small million dollar loan. Deferrement Donny has been saying that one since the 80's.

 

[kpt018]

My BS detector is working just fine.

You have a choice to make on who you talk to at work.

People that lie to me, aren't welcome in my life.

In my position I do not have that choice. I also have tons of contact with customers, vendors, investors, potential investors, folks soliciting business, sales, marketing, on and on. Once you get to a certain point in your career in my line of work you have to accept that you have tons of contact with lots of people and many of them are full of shit.

I also go outside, so I have to actually talk to people in my personal life too.

I hate liars and hold honesty as one of if not the most important virtues and live my own life that way. But lots of people are bullshitters and you just have to learn how to deal with it.

 

[kpt018]

To me, changing positions (flip flopping as the political circles call it) is still lying to me. I'm not saying people aren't entitled to change their opinions, but when you do it to appease the audience you're standing in front of or doing it when you are called out on your opinion and instantly change your tune and/or deny things you've said... you lied at some point.. before or after. Rand Paul did this during the primaries and really aggravated me. He gets called out for saying that we should cut off Israel, a position I strongly agree with, and then gets heat from the GOP for it and immediately back tracks. So which is it? I admired that he had the balls to say it and a week he didn't mean it? How about Hillary and her abortion stance over the years? Don't deny that you said in the past that you made pro life comments because you're getting heat for it during the primaries.

John McCain is really bad about this too.

Changing positions is not inherently dishonest. One can honestly believe a position is correct, receive more information and be convinced of the opposition position. It's actually honorable and intellectually the right thing to do.

If done for purely political reasons I would agree with you.

 

[Jack V Savage]

To me, changing positions (flip flopping as the political circles call it) is still lying to me. I'm not saying people aren't entitled to change their opinions, but when you do it to appease the audience you're standing in front of or doing it when you are called out on your opinion and instantly change your tune and/or deny things you've said...

Official positions aren't the same as opinions. A politician's official position is a promise, while their opinion is just an opinion. If you oppose abortions but you're running in a place where being anti-abortion would sink you, and you say that you won't try to ban abortions, that's not a lie, IMO, unless you break your word.

I'm skeptical of your claim politicians(in average) lie less than the general public. Even assuming it's true, the magnitude and outcomes that are a result of their lies, are far more severe than little white lies told by the gen public.

Well, having power magnifies the import of everything. I think that's trivially (for the purposes of this discussion) true.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Ok, I see where you are coming from, but is there is difference between telling your wife that dress doesn't mame her was look fat, and the lies politicians tell?

Most of the people in my life don't tell big lies

There are different types of lies that politicians tell. I was just adding to kpt's post, pointing out that journalists very often publicly ask politicians the equivalent of that question.

 

[DespicablePeep]

Laugh all you want but that post makes perfect sense if you're actually thinking about it. I can't even count the number of bullshitters in business and otherwise who I come across daily. I bet the average number of times per day a person lies is in double digits.

First its all assumptions and we can´t back this up, not only the politician have the "everyday" lies they also make promises they can´t keep or defend matters for the sake of votes they don´t believe, their lies can cause far more harm.

At least in my work people who lie and don´t keep their word don´t last very long. Awful politicians keep getting elected on lies just because of the power they hold and how much money they have to run a campaign.

As as for the media, take Justin Troudeu, the guy gets so much slack from the media because he gives the right speeches, LGBT, Immigrations and so forth. Americans should be thankful for Trump being so unpopular and not coating political bullshit with "progressive" values, this way the media is constantly on his toes.

 

[VivaRevolution]

There are different types of lies that politicians tell. I was just adding to kpt's post, pointing out that journalists very often publicly ask politicians the equivalent of that question.

Fair enough.

 

[kpt018]

First its all assumptions and we can´t back this up, not only the politician have the "everyday" lies they also make promises they can´t keep or defend matters for the sake of votes they don´t believe, their lies can cause far more harm.

No, there are folks that track politicians lies. Politifact is the big one that most people use.

At least in my work people who lie and don´t keep their word don´t last very long. Awful politicians keep getting elected on lies just because of the power they hold and how much money they have to run a campaign.

There are lots of times where lying is advantageous in many ways. Lying occurs in every aspect of life all the time because it works. It can keep you out of trouble, give you leverage, avoid problems, make that sale, etc.. I don't know what line of work you're in but lying happens everywhere all the time.

As as for the media, take Justin Troudeu, the guy gets so much slack from the media because he gives the right speeches, LGBT, Immigrations and so forth. Americans should be thankful for Trump being so unpopular and not coating political bullshit with "progressive" values, this way the media is constantly on his toes.

Huh? Trump just lies all the time and it's not good for anyone, I'm not exactly sure what your angle is there.

 

[Jack V Savage]

As as for the media, take Justin Troudeu, the guy gets so much slack from the media because he gives the right speeches, LGBT, Immigrations and so forth. Americans should be thankful for Trump being so unpopular and not coating political bullshit with "progressive" values, this way the media is constantly on his toes.

Don't know what it's like in Canada, but the media is much harder on left-leaning politicians in America.