Catch Wrestling United

I also noticed some mod removed the UFC belt from my profile.

:rolleyes:
Josh I remember from the old Ultimate Grappling Mags back in the day they used to list places where one could get some cacc training. They listed a place named John Busto's Shootfighting here on Long island, ever heard of? Also whats the deal with Tony Nelson? I believe you have trained with him a lot. Is he coming to MMA? Curran Jacobs is another NCAA wrestler currently fighting MMA and flying the Catch flag.
 
Josh I remember from the old Ultimate Grappling Mags back in the day they used to list places where one could get some cacc training. They listed a place named John Busto's Shootfighting here on Long island, ever heard of? Also whats the deal with Tony Nelson? I believe you have trained with him a lot. Is he coming to MMA? Curran Jacobs is another NCAA wrestler currently fighting MMA and flying the Catch flag.

I've no idea about John Busto's on LI. Maybe it's still there?

Tony is focused on work, family, and wrestling still. I would LOVE to bring him in to MMA or at least get him doing some submission wrestling stuff as he is incredibly talented. I think I could take him far. Thing is though, unless a person is really driven to want to do it, passionate to go for it, I find that it is truly hard to get most out of it for the athlete. MMA is just too hard on a person otherwise.

Curran and Tony are like comparing apples to tomatoes - both fruit, but nothing alike. Tony is a 4x All-American, 2x NCAA champion. Curran sin't even a 1x All-American. Curran has some skills and certainly seems passionate about catch wrestling but I wouldn't make that a valid comparison at all.

Josh
 
I am hosting another Catch Wrestling tournament February 18th in Orange County, CA.

Take a look below for details and even if you can't make it, please spread it around the 'ol social media circles.

 
I've no idea about John Busto's on LI. Maybe it's still there?

Tony is focused on work, family, and wrestling still. I would LOVE to bring him in to MMA or at least get him doing some submission wrestling stuff as he is incredibly talented. I think I could take him far. Thing is though, unless a person is really driven to want to do it, passionate to go for it, I find that it is truly hard to get most out of it for the athlete. MMA is just too hard on a person otherwise.

Curran and Tony are like comparing apples to tomatoes - both fruit, but nothing alike. Tony is a 4x All-American, 2x NCAA champion. Curran sin't even a 1x All-American. Curran has some skills and certainly seems passionate about catch wrestling but I wouldn't make that a valid comparison at all.

Josh
You have been training Tony in some capacity for a while, no? I remember you mentioned something to that effect on a Podcast with you and Mark Kerr. I understand why Tony is still focused on wrestling, he still has a real shot at making the world team. He has freestyle wins over the current #1 HW Nick Gwiazdowski as well as all the other top domestic HWs in Zach Rey, Dom Bradley, etc. He faced the monster Turk HW (Olympic gold medalist) not too long ago and gave him hell. He is a monster for sure.

Also, you watch some of the older guys wrestle in their prime and its clear they have at least some knowledge of the more painful holds one can learn in freestyle and/or American folkstyle wrestling. I can recall guys like Dave Schultz, Mark Schultz, Terry Brands, and others executing some holds that would seem right at home in the cage or in a submission grappling tournament. Is this coincidence? Improvisation? Or is there more crossover than most people think between modern amateur wrestling and submission wrestling?
 
So with no posts in this thread since April it appears that Catch Wrestling is dying and in danger of becoming extinct in the future.

I like different grappling styles and I like the history of different styles so I don't want it to become extinct. I have never trained catch since I have never lived near a catch school or anyone who has trained it but I like reading about it and learning about it. I have been wondering recently what can catch wrestling do to prevent itself from fading away in the future.

The main thing I think catch needs to do is hold more / any competitions and advertise them better. A vibrant competition scene would help promote and grow the sport. The two big issues though are that there are not many schools/teachers that are teaching catch wrestling and what would/should be the ruleset be for these competitions. Without enough catch wrestling practitioners, who is going to compete in these events? And without a unique enough ruleset what is going to differentiate catch wrestling competitions from some of the other No Gi grappling options already available like UWW Grappling, Sub Only, ADCC, Combat Wrestling etc?

I think catch wrestling is having an identity crisis and no one really knows what catch wrestling is and what makes it different from other more prominent grappling styles that have had better marketing in the past. Maybe not a lot separates catch from other grappling styles?

I think in this day and age where there are no "secret techniques" the only thing that separates grappling styles is the ruleset they compete under. All the techniques are the same or similar but the different grappling styles look different because the rules encourage / forbid certain things. Sambo looks different than Judo because of the rules. Freestyle wrestling looks different than folkstyle because of the rules. Sambo is different than BJJ because of the rules. The techniques are present for everyone to know but the rules shape how the matches look stylistically. So I guess the main thing catch wrestling needs to differentiate itself is a unique enough ruleset. The issue is does a unique enough ruleset even exist?

Sorry this post might not make sense to anyone else because it was more of a stream of consciousness ramble
 
So with no posts in this thread since April it appears that Catch Wrestling is dying and in danger of becoming extinct in the future.

I like different grappling styles and I like the history of different styles so I don't want it to become extinct. I have never trained catch since I have never lived near a catch school or anyone who has trained it but I like reading about it and learning about it. I have been wondering recently what can catch wrestling do to prevent itself from fading away in the future.

The main thing I think catch needs to do is hold more / any competitions and advertise them better. A vibrant competition scene would help promote and grow the sport. The two big issues though are that there are not many schools/teachers that are teaching catch wrestling and what would/should be the ruleset be for these competitions. Without enough catch wrestling practitioners, who is going to compete in these events? And without a unique enough ruleset what is going to differentiate catch wrestling competitions from some of the other No Gi grappling options already available like UWW Grappling, Sub Only, ADCC, Combat Wrestling etc?

I think catch wrestling is having an identity crisis and no one really knows what catch wrestling is and what makes it different from other more prominent grappling styles that have had better marketing in the past. Maybe not a lot separates catch from other grappling styles?

I think in this day and age where there are no "secret techniques" the only thing that separates grappling styles is the ruleset they compete under. All the techniques are the same or similar but the different grappling styles look different because the rules encourage / forbid certain things. Sambo looks different than Judo because of the rules. Freestyle wrestling looks different than folkstyle because of the rules. Sambo is different than BJJ because of the rules. The techniques are present for everyone to know but the rules shape how the matches look stylistically. So I guess the main thing catch wrestling needs to differentiate itself is a unique enough ruleset. The issue is does a unique enough ruleset even exist?

Sorry this post might not make sense to anyone else because it was more of a stream of consciousness ramble
It seems from the recent surge in tournament participation (relatively speaking) that catch is kinda on an upswing. A small one, but hey, that's something.

As far as rulesets, catch has those. There's the core ruleset:

Win by pin, or by submission. Much less restrictions on leg and spine submissions than typical BJJ. No obligation for the top person to stay engaged with the bottom person if they don't want to.

Variants: best of 3; no time limits or long time limits; also can win by flying fall (ippon-type throw landing in dominant position); can't pin someone if they're working a submission on you; chokes may be barred.

I think with the current tournaments out there trying to draw in competitors, we'll quickly have a couple pretty decent rulesets for people to choose from. I know that some of my MMA fighter students would happily compete in catch rules if given the opportunity.
 
Yeah it seems like a lot of the people involved in catch wrestling don't have the best credentials and aren't weeded out as easily as BJJ. I think the need to promote and expand catch doesn't allow for the best self policing.

Catch wrestling organizations need to recruit more former amateur wrestlers.
 
Chris Crossan from Legit Pro Wrestling is also the kind of person that smells Bullshido. I've been following him for a while and his credentials seems very hard to verify, not to mention they seem to change a lot through the years. On his website he used to claim to be a "world champion in mma", however there is/was no record or name of the organisations he supposedly fought for. On sherdog he only have 1 listed match which took place in 2008, a loss. This claim is now removed from his website but can still be found on his social media accounts.

He does have an old claim of being a brazilian jiu jitsu black belt and some gold medals from competitions. He claims to have a gold medal in the 2005 Gracie European Invitational however when I check the results on IBJJF website his name is not listed. Not to mention he writes it as IFBJJ. Never mentions what weight or belt he competed with. Up until recently there was no signs or information about who he recieved his black belt from. Wasn't until a few months earlier this year that he got a black belt from Erick Paulsson. He's been making the claim of being a black belt years before he got promoted by Paulsson.

I know he's legit with his Catchwrestling background but anything he claims to have done before that leaves a lot of question marks.
 
How did the tournament go Josh? Anyone here go check it out or compete?
 
How did the tournament go Josh? Anyone here go check it out or compete?

We had a great group of wrestlers come out and compete today - some new faces and some old as well.

Everyone wrestled hard and displayed great skills as well as sportsmanship. Those that come out and compete continue to impress and me and make me glad that we put these tournaments on.

I am looking forward to our next one, December 23rd.

ACWA Catch Wrestling Tournament Results:

Women's Division
-1st Alyssa Garcia (UWFxUSA)
-2nd Mary Almario (UWFxUSA)
-3rd Miah Weldon (Yucca Valley HS)

Men's Lightweight
-1st Ferdaws Ashrati (West Coast Athletics)
-2nd Taylor Alfaro (CMMA)
-3rd Mark Matsumoto (Tillis BJJ)

Men's Middleweight
-1st Carl Fronhofer
-2nd Efren Guerrero (Smash Squad)
-3rd Tomas Bogardus (Ojai Valley MMA)

Men's Light Heavyweight
-1st Adam Bradley (Atos JJ)
-2nd Robert Cortiz (BTT/West Coast Athletics)
-3rd Juber Andino (Smash Squad)

Men's Heavyweight
-1st Paul Munoz (Upland High School)
-2nd Joshua Childs (Warriors)
-3rd Ruben Castanon (Smash Squad)
 
The Snakepit is holding their world championship this friday night british time. Curran Jacobs was originally planned to wrestle the british undefeated champion Ian Jones. However Jacobs pulled out and Josh Barnett will take his place. Also Barnetts student Victor Henry will also compete. There will also be a ton of different grapplers from around Europe, most of them catchwrestlers but also some sambo-practioners from eastern Europe will compete. Was some people coming over from Asia to compete but all of them got their visas denied unfortunately.

Everything will be Live on facebook

https://www.facebook.com/snakepituk/videos/286755731975041
 
So here's two videos from the two competitions that were held this weekend in England. The first one was the world championships arranged by the Snakepit. Almost the whole event can be seen here, the first part of the event is missing because the music used was copyrighted. A real high quality production, best so far of all catchwrestling events.



Since Curran Jacobs pulled out Josh Barnett was a late replacement against Ian Jones. I also guess it´s good for Jacobs that he pulled out, he wouldn´t be able to remain unbeaten against the topwrestlers attending this year.

The 2nd event was on saturday were Josh Barnett also wrestled. This time he went up against Chris Crossan and well... the match only confirmed my earlier suspicions about Crossans background. His match against Barnett can be seen here.

 
So this is rather interesting and i thought i would share with you guys (even though this thread doesn't seem active at all). So this may come off as extremely egotistical but i assure you im being as sincere as possible. I have a very minimal amount of training under my belt and i have only recently become a yellow belt in Judo. I have trained at other places very briefly but i always had some obstacle that cut it short, whether it was an injury or a lack of funds, i have never trained for more than 3 months at a time.

Now it seems like a trend that where ever i have gone to train (as briefly as it may have been) people ALWAYS think i have had previous training under my belt. This has gotten rather awkward because i have never had issues rolling with the higher belts in either jiu-jitsu or judo and holding my own as a white belt and everyone seems to question my history. I always sort of summed it up to a natural affinity for grappling, perhaps a good grappling IQ? Either way i couldn't pin-point what it was that set me apart from most beginners. To be clear though, i still do get my ass kicked and i never land any subs, what i am rather good at however, is maintaining a top position and defending submissions very well.

But recently i have had sort of a eureka moment that has brought me here. I noticed that a lot of what i naturally do when i grapple looks extremely similar to this catch wrestling. Im sure im getting the terms wrong but the "riding" is something i have always done. I recently watched the breakdown video of Josh Barnett vs Dean Lister and the way i move is EXACTLY like that dude!

What im curious about is if there is any online resources you guys recommend for catch wrestling. Maybe some instructionals, youtube channels ect.
 
So this is rather interesting and i thought i would share with you guys (even though this thread doesn't seem active at all). So this may come off as extremely egotistical but i assure you im being as sincere as possible. I have a very minimal amount of training under my belt and i have only recently become a yellow belt in Judo. I have trained at other places very briefly but i always had some obstacle that cut it short, whether it was an injury or a lack of funds, i have never trained for more than 3 months at a time.

Now it seems like a trend that where ever i have gone to train (as briefly as it may have been) people ALWAYS think i have had previous training under my belt. This has gotten rather awkward because i have never had issues rolling with the higher belts in either jiu-jitsu or judo and holding my own as a white belt and everyone seems to question my history. I always sort of summed it up to a natural affinity for grappling, perhaps a good grappling IQ? Either way i couldn't pin-point what it was that set me apart from most beginners. To be clear though, i still do get my ass kicked and i never land any subs, what i am rather good at however, is maintaining a top position and defending submissions very well.

But recently i have had sort of a eureka moment that has brought me here. I noticed that a lot of what i naturally do when i grapple looks extremely similar to this catch wrestling. Im sure im getting the terms wrong but the "riding" is something i have always done. I recently watched the breakdown video of Josh Barnett vs Dean Lister and the way i move is EXACTLY like that dude!

What im curious about is if there is any online resources you guys recommend for catch wrestling. Maybe some instructionals, youtube channels ect.


I'd recommend material by Wade Schalles and Niel Melanson, in particular 'The Pinnisher' by Schalles and 'Catch Wrestling Formula' by Niel.

Barnett himself has also put out videos several years ago, 'Punishing Rides' and 'Attacking the Guard'.
 
I'd recommend material by Wade Schalles and Niel Melanson, in particular 'The Pinnisher' by Schalles and 'Catch Wrestling Formula' by Niel.

Barnett himself has also put out videos several years ago, 'Punishing Rides' and 'Attacking the Guard'.
Thank you sir! Merry Christmas.
 
A very sad day today for the catch wrestling community. Ian Bromley passed away. One of the veterans, the head coach at Stockport Catch Wrestling outside of Manchester. He was the only one that's been coached by both Billy Wicks in the USA and Roy Wood in England. (Was also coached a short time by Tony Cecchine) The only one with heavy experience in both the american and english style of catch wrestling.

A very sad month indeed since earlier this month Johnny Huskey also one of the veterans passed away. Huskey was also a veteran and one of the most experienced students of Billy Wicks. Bromley and Huskey were training partners back in the days.
 
A very sad day today for the catch wrestling community. Ian Bromley passed away. One of the veterans, the head coach at Stockport Catch Wrestling outside of Manchester. He was the only one that's been coached by both Billy Wicks in the USA and Roy Wood in England. (Was also coached a short time by Tony Cecchine) The only one with heavy experience in both the american and english style of catch wrestling.

A very sad month indeed since earlier this month Johnny Huskey also one of the veterans passed away. Huskey was also a veteran and one of the most experienced students of Billy Wicks. Bromley and Huskey were training partners back in the days.
I trained under one of tony cecchine's long time students and he had an incredible grappling resume game and teaching style I heard some rumors he was full of crap but it's false. He weeded all the less athletic fighters with insane warm up conditioning. Guy is no joke.
 
Currently living in Baltimore Maryland but looking to Move to Spokane Washington later this year. Does anyone know any CACC or CACC related gyms in either area? Been hard to find Catch enthusiasts in real life and while I could be moving for unrelated reasons I was wondering if maybe it was more like to meet Catch ppl out there haha. Cant thank you enough Dece for the updates! As said CACC and Submission Wrestling seem to be picking up.
 
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