One of the most underrated icons in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, the legend..

Inverted guard is so effective for recovering guard. You don’t need to use it as part of your regular guard game but not knowing it seems like ignoring a really effective technique that is an important tool in the toolbox.
Our coach does teach us how to invert and re-guard, just not much else from the upside down position.
 
I believe they should be left out. I have zero respect for doing stuff just because of tradition.
I wouldn't personally teach Americanas to white belts, I don't know a high level way of setting it up.
I guess the American from top half is good at high level if you are twice the weight and quadruple the strength of your opponent (like Gabi was)

Si basically just drill 1/2 armbars triangles kimura bow and arrow and a couple of leg locks... that’s about it.
 
I'm not sure why the Judo is bad, or what beef you have with low passing. Personally, my beef is not with the old school but with self defense oriented stuff where it's typically no resistance and very unrealistic. Any school where I had to spend a significant amount of time on that sort of thing I would avoid, but simply focusing on a basic game (what I associate most with old school guys) is fine. It's a choice and it may not be the style that appeals to you, but the people who do it aren't less skilled just good at different things than the IBJJF focused schools. Like I said, I think there's a reason you see more top MMA-BJJ guys coming out of more old schools gyms or lineages than IBJJF oriented schools.

Classic GB stuff defense is mostly stupid but it's not the only thing. I've had classes taught by people straight from the Carlos Gracie jr line. And we're learned a lot of things old and wrong or low percentage - footlocks with the mata Leo grip , Americana from bottom closed guard, pulling up their hands when they try to elbow escape the mount- stuff that only works on newbies and clueless people.

I don't mind old school but I want it to be Mario Sperry, Saulo and Xande, Roger Gracie, Braulio type old school. Old school that has still evolved with the times. Again, I thin most of you have good instructors, but I think there still a bunch of unevolved old school teachers out there.
 
Si basically just drill 1/2 armbars triangles kimura bow and arrow and a couple of leg locks... that’s about it.

There are other subs that have worked at the top level but I don't think beginners need much more subs.
 
There are other subs that have worked at the top level but I don't think beginners need much more subs.

Why not? Bjj supposed to be fun, playing with thousands of technique is quite fun... can’t see my self passing the secon year mark if all I would do would be 10 subs tops...
 
Learning stuff I can pull of and progressing is most fun for me. The whole learn different technique every day and just roll trying random stuff approach is just alien to me.
 
Learning stuff I can pull of and progressing is most fun for me. The whole learn different technique every day and just roll trying random stuff approach is just alien to me.

so, how the heck would you call learing stuff and pulling it on your classmates lesser and upper belts... to be honest, from white to purple, nothing is going to work on your instructor, so you are basically sayng as a white to brown belt you threw eveything you couldve learn out and stuck with 10 techques because you thought some day you would be able to pull some sht on a black betl?

you sir make a ton of logic....
 
If you spent three minutes on the mat with a guy like Relson you'd change your tune. The smart old school guys have continued to evolve.

I've never trained with Relson before but I live in Hawaii where he has most of his schools and over the years, I've heard him say stuff like:
-a friend of mine asked Relson at a seminar why he doesn't teach kneebars. He replied with "they don't work." Okay.........

-He has also stated publicly in interviews that Royce and Royler lose their fights because they adopted techniques their dad Helio didn't include. Such as butterfly and modern open guards. Then when one of a few rare gems that showed Relson rolling with someone (posted on youtube), he started using the modern sport style "collar and sleeve" guard

Again, I've never trained with him but a lot of what he says contradicts himself
 
Yeah people bag on the ‘Gracie gift’ a lot. Yes if you do an approximation of it with bad posture it’ll get you in triangle.

But if you follow the details it totally works. I got a to a while back that helped. For the hand that’s pushing the leg down, if you keep then elbow on the ground. It’s near impossible to get your arm pulled in.

I'm skeptical still. I think the pass works if you are A) bigger B) stronger C) much more experienced than your opponent. Torreando, knee slide, double under stack pass are all old school techniques that work great in modern high level competition. We don't see the Gracie Gift pass in competition, at any level with any regular frequency. Even the Gracies that still compete don't use the pass in competition, nor have you seen them use it in competition back in the 90s. Face it, the technique sucks

Honestly, old school guys were more aggressive because stalling was much less a part of the meta game and culture than it is now. Not to mention they tended to have better takedowns, so there was very little stalling on the feet. What they didn't do was play as many lapel games, invert as much, or use as many leg entanglement type positions (50/50, SLX) as are used now. They weren't generally as competent of leg lockers as modern players, even under IBJJF rules. The passing and guard games were simpler and they had a stronger preference for closed guard. But they were also more submission focused and much less concerned with shutting down their opponents' games by reaching certain positions like 50/50 to win on points. I generally find old school matches more entertaining than modern ones for that reason.

Maybe I'm biased, and closed guard is my A-game and I hunt submissions like crazy in competition but I'd still rather watch double guard pulls and 50/50 mat battles any day over closed guard stalling and bad judo where combatants are pushing each other from one end of the mat to the other with double stiff arms.

And we're learned a lot of things old and wrong or low percentage - footlocks with the mata Leo grip , Americana from bottom closed guard, pulling up their hands when they try to elbow escape the mount- stuff that only works on newbies and clueless people.

I disagree with this one, I've finished and popped ankles with this type of footlock at adult black belt level competition, and its not rare to see this type of footlock done in competition.
 
so, how the heck would you call learing stuff and pulling it on your classmates lesser and upper belts... to be honest, from white to purple, nothing is going to work on your instructor, so you are basically sayng as a white to brown belt you threw eveything you couldve learn out and stuck with 10 techques because you thought some day you would be able to pull some sht on a black betl?

you sir make a ton of logic....

As a white belt I gradually switched over to using stuff I learned from a Ryan Hall DVD and other high level guys from the internet later on when I realized it made a lot more sense and was working better then what my first pothead old school instructor was showing.
I had a bunch of friends that when we drill and I show them actual techniques that high level guys are using (like Lucas Leite half guard) sweep they just switch over to doing it.
 
As a white belt I gradually switched over to using stuff I learned from a Ryan Hall DVD and other high level guys from the internet later on when I realized it made a lot more sense and was working better then what my first pothead old school instructor was showing.
I had a bunch of friends that when we drill and I show them actual techniques that high level guys are using (like Lucas Leite half guard) sweep they just switch over to doing it.

Like Ryan also doesn’t have fillers...

There’s no donut after a certain time you can take care of your own training, but as a white belt, you don’t know jack shit...even if you think you do...

10th plantet is full on fancy shit by the way, it kind of works just fine...
 
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Like Ryan also doesn’t have fillers...

Compared to the trash my first old school pothead coach (who was living evidence that way back in the darks days a turd could get a silver medal at worlds) what Ryan Hall was teach was pure gold.
 
Compared to the trash my first old school pothead coach (who was living evidence that way back in the darks days a turd could get a silver medal at worlds) what Ryan Hall was teach was pure gold.

.. being a world medalist doesn’t mean he’s a good instructor... silver medalist in what Belt? Black? What year?
 
.. being a world medalist doesn’t mean he’s a good instructor... silver medalist in what Belt? Black? What year?

Silver at black in 1999. He is an utterly horrible instructor. He made white belts WORSE with his seminar when he was back in town.
Like he was teaching releasing the half guard and going to a seatbelt position from underhook half (dogfight without the half guard) in his seminar.
We had a white belt loose in competition because he attempted his crap technique.
 
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Silver at black in 1999. He is an utterly horrible instructor. He made white belts WORSE with his seminar when he was back in town.
Like he was teaching releasing the half guard and going to a seatbelt position from underhook half (dogfight without the half guard) in his seminar.

How would you do that if the guy has a wizzer on you?if not, I don’t see anything e, if you come up to the dog fight, and the other guy doesn’t have a strong wizzer, then you can take the back...
 
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How would you do that if the guy has a wizard on you?if not, I don’t see anything wrong, if you come up to the dog fight, and the other guy doesn’t have a strong wizzerd, then you can take the back...

That was a counter for the case if the guy has a strong wizzer. You release the half guard and go on your knees to a seatbelt position.
To something like this
He was finishing from the seatbelt by blocking the far leg like you would do from a dogfight and driving the guy over (of course he doesn't do any fancy wrestling and is the sort of the guy who believes it's a simple and not a technical sport)
 
Silver at black in 1999. He is an utterly horrible instructor. He made white belts WORSE with his seminar when he was back in town.
Like he was teaching releasing the half guard and going to a seatbelt position from underhook half (dogfight without the half guard) in his seminar.
We had a white belt loose in competition because he attempted his crap technique.

Okay, now Im dying to know who was your original instructor
 
obvious troll is obvious guys - come on

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Okay, now Im dying to know who was your original instructor

He had a beef with with Jean Jacques Machado, claiming that Machado has a fake belt.
The old coach story is true, I wouldn't have invented such a bad a technique as from his seminar myself.
 
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He had a beef with with Jean Jacques Machado, claiming that Machado has a fake belt.
The old coach story is true, I wouldn't have invented such a bad a technique as from his seminar myself.

Roberto Atalla matches that description....was he big name back in the day after winning silver at Mundials?

What exactly was the technique? Was it something he used himself or just made up?
 

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