International Brexit News & Discussion v7: British Parliament Rejects Theresa May's Brexit Deal (Again)

Well, that just happened:



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I love how Americans think this is a big deal lol
Not a whole pile of fucks given about this, hesitate to label it a threat or a promise, the comedy panel shows are in luck though
 
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Why Britain Is Headed for a ‘Soft’ Brexit
By David Merritt | July 12, 2018



With less than nine months until Britain is due to leave the European Union, the U.K. government finally has a plan. It aims to keep the biggest benefit of being part of the EU -- the ability to freely trade goods with the other 27 members -- and minimize the damage to businesses and the economy of leaving the bloc. Though she would be loath to use the term, Prime Minister Theresa May is signaling that the U.K. wants a "soft" form of Brexit, where Britain forges a very close relationship with the EU and gives up on the idea of regaining control over many of the rules and regulations governing commerce. Still, winning the EU’s support won’t be easy.

1. How would this work?
At the heart of the plan is a new U.K.-EU "free trade area" where Britain agrees to stick to EU rules for industrial goods -- such as safety standards -- along with regulations covering agriculture and food. There will also be a newfangled system of interlinked customs regimes that will rely on new technologies that haven’t yet been developed. The U.K.’s goal is simple: Keep goods from food to car parts flowing across the English Channel by avoiding customs checks and tariffs.

2. Will businesses be happy with the plan?
The big names from Airbus SA to BMW AG that have warned about the fallout from a so-called hard Brexit in recent weeks might sleep a little easier. But the proposal on trade is limited to goods, which means selling services into the EU looks set to be complicated by Brexit. May’s plan acknowledges that the U.K.’s vast services sector, which accounts for about 80 percent of the economy, will suffer significant disruption. Banks in particular will lose their current open access to sell into the EU market.

3. Why separate goods and services?
It all comes back to one of the key promises of Brexit: giving the U.K. the ability to strike its own trade deals with fast-growing countries like India and China. Sticking to EU rules for goods means Britain’s hands will be tied when it comes to, say, importing chickens from the U.S. that have been washed in chlorine (a practice banned in the EU). But for services, the plan is for the U.K. to be able to diverge from the EU if it chooses, meaning it will be free to make its own deals in areas like banking or telecommunications. Still, trade deals covering services are something of a rarity.

4. Does the plan solve the problem of the Irish border?
Perhaps. Combining the customs arrangement with the alignment on rules means there’s theoretically no need to check any goods moving across the 310-mile (500 kilometer) border across the island of Ireland. Once Brexit takes effect, the boundary between the Republic of Ireland, which will remain part of the EU, and Northern Ireland, a region that’s part of the U.K., will become the EU’s frontier. The two sides have pledged to keep the border invisible. But since the EU doesn’t know when (if ever) the U.K.’s customs idea will take effect, it wants a backup plan that would bind Northern Ireland to Europe’s customs rules while mainland Britain breaks away.

5. Will the EU go for the plan?
Probably not. EU leaders like to repeat that they won’t stand for "cherry picking," or trying to benefit from the good bits of being in the bloc (like "frictionless" trade) without putting up with the obligations that the U.K. wants to shed (like the "free movement of people"). Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has said that splitting up the treatment of goods and services in any Brexit deal could spell the end of the EU’s treasured single market. Still, May is giving up on some significant points, such as allowing some sort of continuing role for the European Court of Justice, the EU’s highest court. EU officials may view May’s plan as a starting point for negotiations, rather than rejecting it outright.

6. So what’s May’s game plan?
May is betting that she’s getting closer to a version of Brexit that the British Parliament will support, and seems ready to stand up to some of her more rebellious lawmakers who are lobbying for a more dramatic break. Ultimately, though, the details of the future trade relationship don’t need to be decided now. According to the timeline that the EU and U.K. signed up to, the two sides just need to agree on a framework for how it will work in order to avoid a crash divorce. Then Britain gets its two-year transition period, during which the real negotiations on an EU-U.K. trade deal will happen. This is just the start.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-s-headed-for-a-soft-form-of-brexit-quicktake
 
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PM says White Paper delivers 'the Brexit people voted for' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44807741

What's in the White Paper?
It sets out four areas of future co-operation:

  • The economic partnership between the EU and the UK
  • Security co-operation
  • Future co-operation in areas like aviation and nuclear power
  • The "institutional frameworks" that will enforce the agreement
The document repeatedly acknowledges that the UK will have more barriers to trade in some areas than there are today.

It sets out plans for what is described as an "association agreement", with "joint institutional arrangements" between the EU and the UK.

What about free movement?
The paper says that the UK will end the free of movement of people, but suggests EU citizens would be allowed to come to the UK without visas to do "paid work in limited and clearly defined circumstances".

No more detail of this was given by officials on Thursday morning, says BBC Political Editor Laura Kuenssberg, but they rejected suggestions that it could open the door to freedom of movement for workers.

The paper also suggests that there could be "reciprocal" arrangements with the EU for the payment of certain limited benefits or social security.

Again, officials denied that this would mean widespread access to the UK benefits systems for EU nationals after Brexit, says our correspondent.

Both of these elements will be subject to the upcoming negotiation.

And the European Court?
As the Chequers agreement set out on Friday, the UK would accept a "common rule book" for trade in goods, but not services.

The government's aim is to preserve free trade in that part of the economy and avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland.

The White Paper also proposes the setting up of a "governing body", made up of UK and EU ministers, and then a "joint committee" of officials, which would enforce the agreement.

Officially, the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in the UK would come to an end.

British citizens or businesses would no longer be able to take issues to the European Court of Justice - and the court would no longer be able to make judgements on UK cases.

But the White Paper accepts that the European Court of Justice will be "the interpreter of EU rules" that the UK has agreed to follow in the "common rule book".

Customs proposals
The White Paper also sets out in more detail the government's proposed customs system, the Facilitated Customs Arrangement for goods and agri-foods, where it plans for the UK to collect some EU tariffs.

The paper confirms that the UK will not seek "mutual recognition" in the services sector, which makes up the vast majority of the economy.

A leaked version of an earlier draft of the White Paper, put together by the Brexit department under David Davis, envisaged that there would be such an arrangement.

Some MPs have already expressed concern that by pursuing a looser arrangement with the rest of the EU on services it means a "hard Brexit" for the majority of the economy while the goods sector stays closely tied to the single market, although technically not inside it.

Leave voters, is this what you voted for?
 
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Well, that just happened:



<45>


This guy is the biggest weasel in modern day UK politics, whether you're pro or anti Brexit. Let's see here:

- Instigates an entire country into charting a totally different course, because he supposedly has a better path
- Actually achieves his goal on putting his country on the better (according to him) path
- Promptly bails from the ship, abdicating any sort of leadership responsibilities, making the excuse that all he ever wanted was Brexit, he never wanted a part of reshaping Britain's future beyond that

This guy is a total bitch and now he has the nerves to complain. A real leader sets a different course through the storm and steps up to navigate the ship and those on it through the storm. Bitch Farage instead set the ship on course for the storm, and then jumped right on a life raft yelling "Good luck mates, see you on the other side once you're through!" I'm not even sure where I stand on Brexit, but I'm absolutely certain that Nigel Farage is a total bitch who quit and abandoned his cause once it was time to do the actual work.
 
why not start with the former and progress to the latter if the results aren't up to snuff
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This guy is the biggest weasel in modern day UK politics, whether you're pro or anti Brexit. Let's see here:

- Instigates an entire country into charting a totally different course, because he supposedly has a better path
- Actually achieves his goal on putting his country on the better (according to him) path
- Promptly bails from the ship, abdicating any sort of leadership responsibilities, making the excuse that all he ever wanted was Brexit, he never wanted a part of reshaping Britain's future beyond that

This guy is a total bitch and now he has the nerves to complain. A real leader sets a different course through the storm and steps up to navigate the ship and those on it through the storm. Bitch Farage instead set the ship on course for the storm, and then jumped right on a life raft yelling "Good luck mates, see you on the other side once you're through!" I'm not even sure where I stand on Brexit, but I'm absolutely certain that Nigel Farage is a total bitch who quit and abandoned his cause once it was time to do the actual work.

Yeah, watching the folks on the Leave camp jumping ship was rather disappointing.

As an American, I preferred that the U.K remains our proxy in that clubhouse, but since more people voted to Leave, I wanted our British friends to stick together and make a successful exit anyway.

But then this happened, followed by a hell lot of back-pedaling by a new government that would much prefer to Remain, but have the duty to carry out the people's majority will to Leave, and the infighting never stopped since then, much to Brussels' amusement.

Oh well, that was a hell of an exciting election night though. I doubt we would ever stay up that late this side of the Atlantic to watch an European vote count again :)
 
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Yeah, watching the folks on the Leave camp jumping ship was rather disappointing.

As an American, I preferred that the U.K remains our advocate in that clubhouse, but since more people voted to Leave, I wanted them to stick together and make a successful exit anyway.

But then this happened, followed by a hell lot of back-pedaling by a governing party that would much prefer to Remain, but have to reluctantly carry out the people's majority will to Leave.

The fact the argument for brexit amounts to 'no takesies backsies' is quite telling. Nobody can actually say how the desired outcome is going to be achieved. The argument we should do it because we said we would is incredibly dumb.
 
The fact the argument for brexit amounts to 'no takesies backsies' is quite telling. Nobody can actually say how the desired outcome is going to be achieved. The argument we should do it because we said we would is incredibly dumb.

Just to make it clear, are you one of the Remainers who are calling for multiple referendums when the result didn't go your way the first time?

Personally, I think the argument that Britain should get on with it because the majority of Brits wanted it is just good old Democracy at work, base on the referendum rule of 50%+1 that virtually everyone on both sides are cool with before Election Day when they think their side gonna win.

It's happening. You need to work together. Back-pedaling and self-cutting at the negotiation table now is just going to strengthen Brussel's hand.
 
Just to make it clear, are you one of the Remainers who are calling for multiple referendums when the result didn't go your way the first time?

Personally, I think the argument that Britain should get on with it because the majority of Brits wanted it is just good old Democracy at work, base on a ridiculous rule set of 50%+1 that virtually everyone on both sides are cool with before Election Day when they think their side gonna win.

It's happening. Back-pedaling and self-cutting at the negotiation table now is just going to strengthen Brussel's hand.

No, I'm one of the remainers who believes that decisions of this magnitude are best initiated by parliament, and that the political class should be upfront and honest that the referendum was a ploy to unite the conservative party, and there should be a general election ASAP and that goverment should collectively decide whether we should leave or not.

It won't happen, I understand that. But if the original plan isn't going to work there's no point carrying on. As the expression goes if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

As things are though, brexit voters need to take some responsibility for this disaster and yes, mocked for their stupidity and lack of knowledge.

How this gets resolved? Who knows. What a shitfest.
 
I think the U.K-U.S trade deal can still be done, but that sorta-Brexit plan with E.U rules firmly tied to the U.K's neck is clearly going to limit A LOT of options compare to a true U.K-U.S bilateral trade talk.

President Trump says Theresa May's proposed Brexit plan will probably kill UK-US trade deal

By Rob Price | July 12, 2018

http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-us.s3.amazonaws.com%2F579ba3e6-8608-11e8-9199-c2a4754b5a0e

President Donald Trump has said British Prime Minister Theresa May's proposed Brexit plan will "probably kill" off any chance of a UK-US trade deal.

Trump's remarks, made in a bombshell interview with The Sun published Thursday during his first visit to Britain as US president, are an explosive intervention into British politics that seem likely to cause political chaos and imperil the prime minister as she attempts to negotiate Britain's exit from the European Union.

May's proposal was finalized Friday and quickly sparked a slew of high-profile political resignations from her Cabinet, including Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson and Brexit Secretary David Davis, over concerns the plans would leave the UK too closely linked to the EU.

"If they do a deal like that, we would be dealing with the European Union instead of dealing with the UK, so it will probably kill the deal," Trump said, according to The Sun.

He added: "If they do that, then their trade deal with the US will probably not be made."

Trump personally criticized May's handling of Brexit, saying that her so-called soft-Brexit approach went "the opposite way" to what he had recommended and that it was "very unfortunate."

Trump attended a black-tie dinner at Blenheim Palace with May on Thursday evening, where the TV network ITV reports May planned to pitch the president on a free-trade agreement between the UK and the US after Brexit. But Trump's interview with The Sun now leaves that prospect in doubt — and puts May in a vulnerable position.

Many Conservative members of Parliament who support Brexit are already in open revolt over her proposals, which Johnson said would turn the UK into an EU "colony" — and Trump's remarks are sure to inflame their concerns. May is already believed to be dangerously close to a vote of no confidence by her party.

The prime minister's plan "will definitely affect trade with the United States, unfortunately in a negative way," Trump said.

"We have enough difficulty with the European Union. We are cracking down right now on the European Union because they have not treated the United States fairly on trading.

"No, if they do that, I would say that that would probably end a major trade relationship with the United States."

http://www.businessinsider.com/dona...it-proposal-will-kill-uk-us-trade-deal-2018-7
 
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