George Lockhart: "If you lift, you need carbs. If you jog, you need fats"

[Diogenes of Sinope]

All diets are fads but the vegan one works? Which one is it???

I wouldn't take advice from a medical doctor on my diet......

So calorie restriction is the only thing that works??? Is that a diet??? But all diets are fads??

the only diets that work are the ones medical doctor's stand by. if you have a heart attack and survive, most MDs will suggest that you switch to a vegan diet, the only diet proven to reverse heart disease

 

[tekkenfan]

If you're talking about presenting the idea to the researchers at a university I'm sure you'll be fine. At the university level you'll be dealing with reputable people. The bigger the university the more funding.

They do assist the athletes at their college so I'm sure they can help with finding answers if you're interested. The body is going to be the body no matter what context you put it in. There will be principles that apply universally.

The thing I think is a problem as of now is that MMA is not a scholastic sport nor is it in the Olympics. The studies, and research will go to those athletes as the priority (football players, basketball players, runners, wrestlers, etc) because it is in their interest that they win representing the schools or the country.

If you're interested I would give it a try. Call the university. Look up who is in charge of the exercise physiology department, or nutrition department. These are most times, if not always, PhD holders. I would present the idea to them, and maybe they'll have some grad students who would like to hop on board and do the study. If for some reason they don't have an interest in conducting the study then ask questions. If they aren't answering them, I'd contact the wrestling team and speak to the coach. They weight cut in their sport, as you know.

Good luck to you. I'd be interested in knowing what you come up with.

true nt hat mma isnt a sport but wrestling doe shave weight cutting i couldtalk about wrestlers who died cutting weight the wrong way and to do a study to find the best most healthy way of doing it obviously wrestlers weigh in same day but still

 

[William Huggins]

the only diets that work are the ones medical doctor's stand by. if you have a heart attack and survive, most MDs will suggest that you switch to a vegan diet, the only diet proven to reverse heart disease

Show me the facts......... Show me the evidence....

MD's are really not clued up on diets and nutrition..........it's really not in their training.....

MD's would not be advising you on your diet requirements after a heart attack, maybe, you are getting confused with a specialist like a Cardiologist and even they are really not that well trained when it comes to diets........

Please stop pushing your vegan agenda...........

 

[Robocok]

Interesting, I thought it was simply calories in vs calories out. Also, isn't there a difference between animal fats from greasy cured meats and cheese compared to non-animal fats such as olives, avocados, and nuts? I thought the latter are considered healthier.

Also, isn't an excess of carbohydrates, especially simple carbs like sugar, stored as fat? I know I feel like junk if I eat too much sugar, even more if it's early in the day.

Some months ago, Aberdeen university tested more or less all known diets known on lab rats and it turned out that the cause for fat gain is really just fat intake. It's that easy

https://neurosciencenews.com/fat-consumption-weight-gain-9573/

Unsurprisingly, no one really cared about it and there was basically no coverage at all at the usual sites. The study was pretty top-notch, the only criticism about it was that it was done on rats, not humans (but we're not really at the point where we can put humans in a lab for years while torturing them with bullshit diets, or are we??).

 

[monkeyrhythm]

Some months ago, Aberdeen university tested more or less all known diets known on lab rats and it turned out that the cause for fat gain is really just fat intake. It's that easy

https://neurosciencenews.com/fat-consumption-weight-gain-9573/

Unsurprisingly, no one really cared about it and there was basically no coverage at all at the usual sites. The study was pretty top-notch, the only criticism about it was that it was done on rats, not humans (but we're not really at the point where we can put humans in a lab for years while torturing them with bullshit diets, or are we??).

The study showed that as the fat percentage of food given to rats increased (peaking at 60%) the less they were able to self regulate the amount they ate i.e. they gorged themselves. The effect tapered off after 60% but even the rats at keto style ratios (e.g. ~80% fat) were still fatter than those in the high-carb and/or high-protein groups.

Metabolic factors aside humans relationship with food is so much more complex than rats; for example, even if I really, really want a triple cheeseburger I can decide not to eat it if it doesn't align with my dietary goals. The study was interesting in as far as it went but the noteworthy elements are related to the addictive qualities of high-fat foods as opposed to the discovery of an optimal diet for rats (let alone humans).

 

[monkeyrhythm]

if you have a heart attack and survive, most MDs will suggest that you switch to a vegan diet

No; "most MDs" will not suggest you switch to a vegan diet if you have a heart attack and survive.

 

[gato sin techo]

but but
you need to fire those, what you call them, receptors. yeah the receptors and shit. a banana here some candy there

 

[Bluesbreaker]

its all fucking brosciecence. just eat right and workout. all diets are fads. only thing that works to lose weight is caloric restriction. Only diet that reverses heart disease is the Vegan Diet.

everything else is bs. take advice from Medical doctors, not bros

Man, this sub-forum is almost 100% bro science!

 

[Eisenhans]

Interesting, I thought it was simply calories in vs calories out. Also, isn't there a difference between animal fats from greasy cured meats and cheese compared to non-animal fats such as olives, avocados, and nuts? I thought the latter are considered healthier.

Refero relata, I have no idea.

Also, isn't an excess of carbohydrates, especially simple carbs like sugar, stored as fat? I know I feel like junk if I eat too much sugar, even more if it's early in the day.

It's called "de novo lipogenesis" and ironically doesn't work very well in humans, but it works well in rats. I don't think I can find the study anymore, but you have to literally eat bags of sugar every day for it to kick in (unless you are a rodent). In real life, eating that much sugar would get old pretty quickly.

 

[quantiqus]

High intensity exercise uses mostly carbs as a fuel source.
Low intensity exercise uses mostly fatty acids as a fuel source.

This is a real thing.

There is research out there you can view to verify.

Still, I don't understand why does it matter in the end.
1. I eat carbs, I do high intensity, it will consume those carbs and then if needed the body fat
2. I eat fats, I do high intensity, it will consume body fat if no carbs are available

Same for low intensity...
1. I eat carbs, I do low intensity, it will consume fats and eventually those carbs will become stored fat
2. I eat fats, I do low intensity, it will consume fats and those fats will become stored fat

It works better with carbs during HI and better with fats during LI? Or what?
Sorry if my question sounds stupid...

 

[Robocok]

Refero relata, I have no idea.


It's called "de novo lipogenesis" and ironically doesn't work very well in humans, but it works well in rats. I don't think I can find the study anymore, but you have to literally eat bags of sugar every day for it to kick in (unless you are a rodent). In real life, eating that much sugar would get old pretty quickly.

I read that a lot of those studies about a high fat diet making you fat were funded by the sugar industry. I don't know if that's true but I've also read that at least a moderate amount of dietary fat is necessary for a healthy endocrine system and I also don't know how much stock I would put into rat studies as they're going to be different than humans.

 

[Eisenhans]

I read that a lot of those studies about a high fat diet making you fat were funded by the sugar industry.

All studies are funded by someone nowadays. I dunno how big the "sugar industry" is outside of the US, though. Or even inside, I thought you guys don't even use sugar but HFCS?

I don't know if that's true but I've also read that at least a moderate amount of dietary fat is necessary for a healthy endocrine system and I also don't know how much stock I would put into rat studies as they're going to be different than humans.

Well, there are books about nutrient percentage in diet long before an almighty sugar industry was a thing and fat percentages were hilariously low in most cases (talking about the late 1800s to early 1900s here).

 

[Robocok]

All studies are funded by someone nowadays. I dunno how big the "sugar industry" is outside of the US, though. Or even inside, I thought you guys don't even use sugar but HFCS?


Well, there are books about nutrient percentage in diet long before an almighty sugar industry was a thing and fat percentages were hilariously low in most cases (talking about the late 1800s to early 1900s here).

I try to avoid hfcs. I read that that's worse than sugar though I don't know if they mean cane sugar or just refined sugar. You can google about the 'sugar industry' paying for studies to promote the low fat diet craze. There's conflicting info about that. I don't know what's true.

 

[Eisenhans]

There's conflicting info about that. I don't know what's true.

I think that's the main problem. Who says those articles haven't been paid for by... uh... Big Lard? I'm kidding, but am I really? We usually don't know whose money is behind the "truth" that we believe.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Still, I don't understand why does it matter in the end.
1. I eat carbs, I do high intensity, it will consume those carbs and then if needed the body fat
2. I eat fats, I do high intensity, it will consume body fat if no carbs are available

Same for low intensity...
1. I eat carbs, I do low intensity, it will consume fats and eventually those carbs will become stored fat
2. I eat fats, I do low intensity, it will consume fats and those fats will become stored fat

It works better with carbs during HI and better with fats during LI? Or what?
Sorry if my question sounds stupid...

1. You eat carbs, you do high intensity, you will use those carbs to fuel your workout and expend more calories thereby "burning" adipose (fat) tissue under the skin.
2. You eat fats, you do high intensity, you will more than likely feel weak and groggy if you've restricted your carbs. If you manage to complete the high intensity activity you will burn body fat for the same reason listed in (1.).

Low intensity.....

1. You eat carbs, you do low enough intensity, you will consume fat as an energy source and store excess of anything you don't use. You will have to up the intensity to see carbs being used as your energy source. The longer you perform a low intensity the higher percentage of fat you'll burn.

2. You eat fats, you do low intensity, you will use fat as an energy source and granted you didn't over consume you won't store much fat. Stored fat comes from what your body doesn't use. It is essentially excess energy.

Carbs will be used as an energy source for high intensity.
Fats will be used as an energy source for low intensity.

There are crossovers for certain intensities. You could be using 50/50, 60/40, 80/20 etc of both.

You also have to consider what are you taking in day to day. A lot of your question seems to do with calorie intake v calorie output, if I'm understanding correctly.

High intensity has been shown to burn more calories overall, including at rest. However, if you are at low intensity for longer you'll burn a higher percentage of body fat. This is why it is recommended to get good sleep because it is a low intensity activity that your body uses fat to fuel.

These are just principles. Each situation has to be looked at (I don't know your goals). There are many things going on with the body, but there is research on the carbs (high intensity) fats (low intensity) thing in regards to energy sources. Calories in v calories out also plays a huge role, if not the biggest, in fat stored on the body.

I hope this answers some questions you had. If not I'd consult a nutritionist possibly. They know their stuff, and perhaps could better explain it.

 

[quantiqus]

1. You eat carbs, you do high intensity, you will use those carbs to fuel your workout and expend more calories thereby "burning" adipose (fat) tissue under the skin.
2. You eat fats, you do high intensity, you will more than likely feel weak and groggy if you've restricted your carbs. If you manage to complete the high intensity activity you will burn body fat for the same reason listed in (1.).

Low intensity.....

1. You eat carbs, you do low enough intensity, you will consume fat as an energy source and store excess of anything you don't use. You will have to up the intensity to see carbs being used as your energy source. The longer you perform a low intensity the higher percentage of fat you'll burn.

2. You eat fats, you do low intensity, you will use fat as an energy source and granted you didn't over consume you won't store much fat. Stored fat comes from what your body doesn't use. It is essentially excess energy.

Carbs will be used as an energy source for high intensity.
Fats will be used as an energy source for low intensity.

There are crossovers for certain intensities. You could be using 50/50, 60/40, 80/20 etc of both.

You also have to consider what are you taking in day to day. A lot of your question seems to do with calorie intake v calorie output, if I'm understanding correctly.

High intensity has been shown to burn more calories overall, including at rest. However, if you are at low intensity for longer you'll burn a higher percentage of body fat. This is why it is recommended to get good sleep because it is a low intensity activity that your body uses fat to fuel.

These are just principles. Each situation has to be looked at (I don't know your goals). There are many things going on with the body, but there is research on the carbs (high intensity) fats (low intensity) thing in regards to energy sources. Calories in v calories out also plays a huge role, if not the biggest, in fat stored on the body.

I hope this answers some questions you had. If not I'd consult a nutritionist possibly. They know their stuff, and perhaps could better explain it.

I understand now the difference, thank you!

Except, sleeping and walking, I don't know what would be low intensity though. I don't know what people mean by jogging. I run 10 km in 1 hour, but it seems high intensity for me after a while.
Also, if I train HI in the evening, with a couple of hours before sleep, logically it would be to eat some carbs after the workout. But if I am going to sleep in 2 hours (LI) logically it would be to eat some fats before.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

I understand now the difference, thank you!

Except, sleeping and walking, I don't know what would be low intensity though. I don't know what people mean by jogging. I run 10 km in 1 hour, but it seems high intensity for me after a while.
Also, if I train HI in the evening, with a couple of hours before sleep, logically it would be to eat some carbs after the workout. But if I am going to sleep in 2 hours (LI) logically it would be to eat some fats before.

If you ever come across a device that can calibrate your RER for you I'd recommend doing it. This way you can see what is low intensity for you versus what is high intensity. Closer to a RER of 0.8 will use more fat (LI). A RER 1.0 and higher will use more carbs (HI).

Without having a machine you can track your percentage of your maximum heart rate. Your max heart rate is 220 minus your age. Ex: if you're say 20.....Max HR : 220 - 20 = 200(bpm). 200(bpm) would be your maximum intensity. Moderate intensity would be a percentage of that, low intensity would be a lesser percentage of that. You can determine activity intensity for yourself based on your heart rate.

You can also gauge intensity based on if you're able to have a reasonable conversation while performing the activity. If you're able to get out a few words the intensity level is probably relatively low to moderate. If you're unable to get out more than one word at a time or can't speak, then you're probably at high intensity.

Sleeping and walking are still activities that require energy. They are so low that you don't consciously think about them. You are using fats for both of these. So, if you have the time try to sleep more, and walk more for fat loss. I was at a low weight, and body fat when I didn't have a car and I would walk everywhere. It was a small town so this wasn't too bad. When I took a trip up to visit family in the city, I put on weight. I ate the same, I worked out the same except I drove everywhere. People make jokes about park walkers, and mall walkers but they may be on to something. lol

Also when I jog excruciatingly slow (basically walking while bouncing on my toes) for a hour and half to two hours on a regular basis I cut weight. Even after I rehydrate my weight stays off of me especially in the waist line. The activity level is low enough for me, and I'm doing it for a long enough time that I'm burning fat tissue off of my body. Then I'll eat something like oatmeal and later in the day hit the gym.

When I'm in the gym I train high intensity. This is using carbs. Also the calorie expenditure is going to be higher, and muscle mass will be maintained through intensity of training. Therefore I am essentially getting the best of both worlds. My friends actually commented that I looked bigger, when in fact I was losing weight adding in the low intensity jogging. I attribute it to the fat I was burning made me look leaner, and therefore my muscles were more prominent. I went from 180 to 167, and "looked bigger". lol

You eat carbs after HI to replenish glucose.

I'm halfway joking halfway serious but if you want to take "fats" before going to sleep maybe you should do it old school and down a teaspoon of olive oil. lol

 

[WhiteMousse]

Someone lay it on me.

Carbs, yay or nay?

 

[PubliusVentidius]

Show me the facts......... Show me the evidence....

MD's are really not clued up on diets and nutrition..........it's really not in their training.....

MD's would not be advising you on your diet requirements after a heart attack, maybe, you are getting confused with a specialist like a Cardiologist and even they are really not that well trained when it comes to diets........

Please stop pushing your vegan agenda...........

Cardiologist Esselstyn halts and reverses heart disease with a pretty restrictive whole food plant based diet (it's not a ''vegan diet'', there's a big difference between veganism and wfpb), not even oils nor nuts are allowed, hell not even coffee is allowed, same with avocados and coconuts, not allowed. It's an extremely low fat diet but it does clean up clogged arteries over time if the patients religiously stick to it.

http://www.dresselstyn.com/resolving_cade.htm

As on how and why it works, he explains the mechanism here:

It's pretty well estabilished in the medical literature that high fat foods cause acute endothelial dysfunction leading overtime to atherogenesis:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9036757
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12625832
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20678595
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/01.cir.0000131515.03336.f8

 

[saffo]

its all fucking brosciecence. just eat right and workout. all diets are fads. only thing that works to lose weight is caloric restriction. Only diet that reverses heart disease is the Vegan Diet.

everything else is bs. take advice from Medical doctors, not bros

Some people have broscience and people like you have ignorantscience.