‘Unmasking Antifa Act' includes 15-year prison term proposal

[Rational Poster]

Did you read the link?

"Oppresses, threatens or intimidates anyone" that's open for interpretation.

Yeah it's way too open ended and thus open for wild interpretations to ever get passed.

Why should an article of clothing determine your sentence? Assault is assault.

 

[ElKarlo]

Didn't they make a law stating this decades ago. It was related to the klan . Which is why they stopped their full on hoods and had to expose their faces.
But good , this Def needed doing

 

[bootsy]

Anti Fascism is bound to be unpopular in a burgeoning Fascist state.

 

[uppercutbus]

The marxists here seem real assdamaged over this thread and being labelled as fascist themselves either lol.

 

[Teppodama]

This is beside the point, but you're a decent poster and this is so patently absurd that I have to interject. Setting aside the fact that neo-Nazi membership is ticking up, white supremacist activity is on the rise, and white nationalist membership is exploding, Trump is definitionally fascist in several ways, as is his support.

In the era of Trump, there has been:
i. heightened distrust and displeasure in democracy ("the election is gonna be rigged!")
ii. heightened glorification of autocratic rule (Trump saying "only I have the answers" and glorifying Putin, Kim, Saddam, etc.)
iii. radical opposition to free press and free flow of factual information (yelling "fake news" about verifiably factual things, attacking journalists)
iv. disregard or scapegoating of due process
v. complete embrace of revisionist history (one minute saying the unemployment rate is a farce then immediately claiming it as a virtue, openly denying verifiable facts)
vi. radical reallocation of power to corporate cartels (staffing the government with oil and coal lobbyists)
vii. completely fluid, irresponsible, and careless fiscal policy (just lol here)
viii. open violation of liberal democratic institutions and processes (DOJ, voter purges, demands of loyalty)

I mean, there's more that I could go on with. But it's just ridiculous to say "there is no fascist movement." To say that is to completely forego knowing anything about fascism. If you have any interest in this topic, the one set of works from Leon Trotsky that I would most recommend to anyone are his brilliant essays on fascism. Here are some abbreviated excerpts: https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm

I just don't see the issue the same as you Trotsky. I'm not saying I agree with Trump, but I also don't see his actions in the same nefarious light as you do. Is he fairly idiotic in how he responds to issues? Yes. Is he traditionally Presidential and bringing honor to the position? Nope.

I just believe he continues to try and deal with the issues of running a nation the same way he's dealt with his business interests. Can't say I agree with how he's handled many many things. But I'm also not worried about a brown shirt wave cresting in the nation.

I have nothing to offer regarding any surge in supremacists in the nation outside of noticing a general increase in bigotry in general across the spectrum. I don't lay that at the feet of Trump specifically but at the incredible polarization of ideologies that has occurred due to his rise. Trump is practically the embodiment of everything the Left rails and despises. Combine that with the shattered dream of a further Democratic leadership that Hillary represented and it's easy to see how the shattering of that particular dream pushed many many people over the edge.

The Right is admittedly a fearful bunch when it comes to their issues I will admit, but so is the Left and from all appearances, willing to go to even more absurd lengths in their fear.

 

[Bald1]

..... misuse of terms like fascist, communist, capitalism, free speech, socialist, due process, and liberal -- all of which have definable meanings -- it becomes impossible to produce agreed-upon terms for discussion and discourse breaks down over time.

Agreed. Add Nazi, pedo and a string of "ist"s, and the goal seems to be confusion instead of communication.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

15 years for yelling at cops while disguised. Seems a bit excessive.

Well right wingers have fantasies about murdering protesters in the streets with cars, and have tried to pass legislation for that. So it should not surprise you. The alt right is only about punishing and oppressing people who disagree with them.

 

[Amerikuracana]

I hope so innocent white American males are clearly in dire need of protection from the dreaded Antifa .

With the media not holding the group responsible for their actions, and not allowing reporters to say when they see antifa get violent first, then yes.. People who are attacked for supporting trump, or being overly proud of their heretige need protection.

 

[Phelly2]

You don't know what a fascist is then. Fascist doesn't mean "person who is violent." People need to stop misusing the term.

Terrorist? Fine, I'll concede that they are terrorists, although even that requires a pretty liberal definition thereof.

Okay, perhaps I am missing the term fascist. I use it primarily because violent suppression of political opposition is one of the key characteristics of a fascist, but also because it's ironic that such a tactic is used by a group who fancies itself an opposition to fascist behavior. It'd be like an anti-racist who happens to hate white people.

But they fit the terrorist definition pretty soundly. They use violence, threats, coercion, bullying and other intimidation tactics against peaceful civilians in order to advance their political goals. That's a fairly universal definition. The only "yeah, but..." Would be that they haven't killed anyone yet--at least not directly or intentionally.

 

[CWMMA]

Why not just charge them for the actions they committed?

 

[Teppodama]

So, should it pass what are the actual ramifications for the Antifa movement? Do any of you see this actually discouraging them from still wearing masks by and large? Do you see it actually being enforced by LEOs given how the are often constrained with a hands off position by an large? Will it impact how many people are willing to participate in their activities if they can no longer hide their faces?

 

[Trotsky]

Agreed. Add Nazi, pedo and a string of "ist"s, and the goal seems to be confusion instead of communication.

I do get that some people get offended when a person seems to be trying to obfuscate a conversation by differentiating pedo from whatever that other term for being attracted to post-puberty minors, but I agree that it's valuable to err on the side of linguistic precision.

 

[ElKarlo]

Funny how this legislation didn't get proposed for that other masked group that has been going around and terrorizing people for the last 100 years. Then to add injury to insult, they want to name the bill after johnny come lately.

No, there Def was a klan act dealing with covering your face in public

 

[ElKarlo]

Anti Fascism is bound to be unpopular in a burgeoning Fascist state.

Yeah, because replacing perceived fascism with actual Marxism is a great idea. Idiot

 

[Trotsky]

Okay, perhaps I am missing the term fascist. I use it primarily because violent suppression of political opposition is one of the key characteristics of a fascist, but also because it's ironic that such a tactic is used by a group who fancies itself an opposition to fascist behavior. It'd be like an anti-racist who happens to hate white people.

I will not disagree that there is some overlap in the extent to which they will use force, but you can't say that everyone who uses force is a fascist, or every war, coup, or rebellion ever was just a bunch of fascists beating on each other.

But they fit the terrorist definition pretty soundly. They use violence, threats, coercion, bullying and other intimidation tactics against peaceful civilians in order to advance their political goals. That's a fairly universal definition. The only "yeah, but..." Would be that they haven't killed anyone yet--at least not directly or intentionally.

No, the distinction that I would make on the definition of "terrorist," would be that terrorists send a message to the public by carrying out violence against the public indiscriminately. Ant-fascists send a message to certain members of groups (they would term them as fascists, of course) by carrying out violence against that group.

If Antifa was beating down random people to send the message that fascism is bad, as opposed to beating down persons engaged in some sort of fascististic behavior, they would be more aptly termed terrorists.

But I also take that that's a somewhat nuanced distinction.

 

[panamaican]

So a law that says that if you bother someone while wearing a mask you get 15 years in jail. A mask.

This bill as written basically criminalizes everyone who wears a mask. To illustrate the problem - As drafted, if someone pushes someone on Halloween and wearing a costume, they will be subject to this law.

That's overly broad. If they have an issue with Antifa then draft a narrow bill specifically for dealing with Antifa.

 

[HereticBD]

Why not just charge them for the actions they committed?

When you allow a large group to show up to events with masks on, it makes it hard to catch them when they break the law.

Anyways, I thought the whole "wearing a mask" thing was illegal already. They should really just enforce that, before going all out.

 

[Rational Poster]

Didn't they make a law stating this decades ago. It was related to the klan . Which is why they stopped their full on hoods and had to expose their faces.
But good , this Def needed doing

I think that law has something to do with demonstrating on state grounds and other public places, not specifically committing a crime with a mask on.

A crime is a crime, it doesn't matter what clothes you're wearing.

 

[Rational Poster]

When you allow a large group to show up to events with masks on, it makes it hard to catch them when they break the law.

Anyways, I thought the whole "wearing a mask" thing was illegal already. They should really just enforce that, before going all out.

Wearing masks is not illegal. It's America.

It's illegal to cover your face during demonstrations on state grounds, but Antifa aren't holding publicly sanctioned rallies. They're mostly crashing events on private property and not holding their own protests.

 

[Mr. 4K]

I hope so innocent white American males are clearly in dire need of protection from the dreaded Antifa .

I thought Antifa was a bunch of white college students..