12 UFC Champions are no good cheats who took banned substances for unfair advantage

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

Well, the IOC and every other sporting organization will be relieved to know they will no longer need to spend tens of millions on blood tests every year, because Sherdog experts can tell who's using by simple photo-evidence. Congratulations, you're now a rich man, every sporting organization in the world is going to contribute to your multi-million dollar a year contract replacing blood tests with photo-evidence.

Look, everybody in sports testing has heard the bro-science about being able to tell if someone's using from visual signs - the myths are very well known. And yet not a single organization accepts those visual signs as proof of usage. Why is that you (should) ask? Because actual doctors (you know, the ones you go to when you're dying after a car accident or with cancer or serious viruses etc) will tell you that there are multiple possible causes for every visual sign out there.

Why do sporting organizations trust doctors more than bro-science when it comes to medicine? For the same reason ambulances take critically injured people to hospitals filled with doctors instead of gyms filled with bro-science experts.

Bro science said Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong were using PED's, even tho doctor science was unable to detect anything. It's not as black and white as you make it in the age of anti-doping and designer drugs. Should a guy be banned because bro science says he cheats? No. But where there is smoke, especially in MMA, there has often been fire.

 

[Deleted member 510653]

I usually can let a first violation slide, but you get two or more that's when stricter penalties should be enforced

 

[rakeleaves]

Well, the IOC and every other sporting organization will be relieved to know they will no longer need to spend tens of millions on blood tests every year, because Sherdog experts can tell who's using by simple photo-evidence. Congratulations, you're now a rich man, every sporting organization in the world is going to contribute to your multi-million dollar a year contract replacing blood tests with photo-evidence.

Look, everybody in sports testing has heard the bro-science about being able to tell if someone's using from visual signs - the myths are very well known. And yet not a single organization accepts those visual signs as proof of usage. Why is that you (should) ask? Because actual doctors (you know, the ones you go to when you're dying after a car accident or with cancer or serious viruses etc) will tell you that there are multiple possible causes for every visual sign out there.

Why do sporting organizations trust doctors more than bro-science when it comes to medicine? For the same reason ambulances take critically injured people to hospitals filled with doctors instead of gyms filled with bro-science experts.

The world of sporting rules and violations has to have definitive proof because if they are wrong they have to worry about litigation. In the court of public opinion, marks like GSP has or the eye test by someone with experience can be a strong indicator.

 

[JoshR86]

You forgot one.

Or maybe bed bugs are just biting all these millionaire athletes that serendipitously piss hot.

Mosquito bites.

The testing protocol back then was similar to your math teacher saying you can use a calculator just dont let him see it.

The methods utilized were insufficient, and so promoted the use of PED's as long as your pee results wouldn't be too extreme, although in cases like Jon's test results pre DC 1, even that was overlooked.

Also HGH isn't a PED when utilized without a PED cycle.

It's a really expensive fat burner that allows you to recover from training. But you will not see strength increases from using HGH alone.

 

[Mikey Tanisha]

GSP is Canadian, bro.

There's bed bugs there don't you worry.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Bro science said Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong were using PED's, even tho doctor science was unable to detect anything. It's not as black and white as you make it in the age of anti-doping and designer drugs. Should a guy be banned because bro science says he cheats? No. But where there is smoke, especially in MMA, there has often been fire.

Bro science sometimes gets it right. It more often gets it wrong. Which is why no organization uses it. Using bro science is equivalent to saying "I suspect", which is fine. But its often presented as proof, which its definitely not.

There's definitely a list of people which bro science got right. There's an even longer list of people who passed the bro science test but were caught, and there are plenty of pictures of 1800's strongmen (long before synthetic steroids) which fail the bro science test. Which again is why no sports organization takes it seriously.

My guess is that everyone at high levels is using. Some are using so much they get caught (really, no one should ever get caught assuming they have a normal wage (so can buy modern PED's) and an IQ above 70 (so they can follow procedure). Only very extreme cases can be judged visually (high level body builders on the plus side, people dying of malnutrition on the other).

If eye testing had a good success rate (very few false positives or false negatives) it'd be used. But its success rate is poor, which is why its not taken seriously anywhere but Internet forums.

 

[WhiteMousse]

GODDAMMIT TO FUCKING HELL!!!

THEY SHOULD DIE!!!

LET'S KILL THEM!!!!!

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

The world of sporting rules and violations has to have definitive proof because if they are wrong they have to worry about litigation. In the court of public opinion, marks like GSP has or the eye test by someone with experience can be a strong indicator.

Exactly. But its also why there's no reason to take the eye test seriously; it lacks the consistency needed to be accepted in court (and courts are notoriously lax on accepting eye witness and expert evidence, your field really has to be weak to be shut out of court).

Non-quantitative expert analysis is allowed in most things, for instance an expert looking at tire tracks leading to an accident, or psychologists trying to decide if someone was insane (completely a gut feel on the psych's part); but those experts have a much better track record than PED experts.

The problem for PED eye tests is the very long list of athletes who passed the eye test who failed blood tests, and the pictures of old time strongmen (long before synthetic steroid development) who fail the eye test. N

 

[acannxr]

Still hurts seeing JDS on that list. He seemed like a good dude and anti-PEDs. Just a hypocrite douchebag in the end.

Glad Overeem KTFO'd him after the shit he talked about Overeem for using.

As far as anyone knows right now, he popped for something that can be found in many over the counter medications; until his USADA hearing I'm going to reserve judgement.

 

[Congo66]

Can you prove that they had an unfair advantage?

Can you prove they didn't?

Sports where performances are actually measurable by times. weights, distances etc seem to confirm that they did. That's why there are still a load of track and field records that date to 1988 and earlier which strangely enough corresponds to the year where they introduced out of competition testing but that's probably just a coincidence.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Can you prove they didn't?

Sports where performances are actually measurable by times. weights, distances etc seem to confirm that they did. That's why there are still a load of track and field records that date to 1988 and earlier which strangely enough corresponds to the year where they introduced out of competition testing but that's probably just a coincidence.

Its funny, I agree with your second paragraph. But your first sentence is pointless; you cannot prove a negative except in very limited cases (math problems). You can't prove they aren't getting help from aliens either, but it'd be up to the person making the claim to prove it, rather than the other person having to prove no aliens were involved.

 

[tenniswhiz]

There's no other way to put it other than to say these people are god damn cheats and people with very low morals. Everything they accomplished means $%#@ because they are cheaters.

You'll notice that I omitted Lyoto Machida from the list because his case is truly unique in that the substance was taken while it was not prohibited, but then a few weeks after, the new prohibited list came out and at that time it was too late because it was already in his system. I didn't leave him off because we are close personal friends. A cheat is a cheat.

1. Jon Jones
2. Anderson Silva
3. Frank Mir
4. Royce Gracie
5. Josh Barnett
6. Mark Kerr
7. Brock Lesnar
8. BJ Penn
9. Junior Dos Santos
10. Ken Shamrock
11. Sean Sherk
12. Tim Sylvia

4. (Gracie) Cheated, but not in the UFC.

6. (Kerr) Was not flagged during his brief stint in the UFC.

8. (BJ) Caught for diuretic WAY after he was a relevant top fighter

10. (Ken Shamrock) Never tested positive, admitted to using steroids at certain times in his earlier life

11. (Sherk) Passed a polygraph saying he did not knowingly take PED’s


And what the hell?
You never heard of Cyborg?
Or are you uninterested in WMMA?

 

[Aforo88]

There's no other way to put it other than to say these people are god damn cheats and people with very low morals. Everything they accomplished means $%#@ because they are cheaters.

You'll notice that I omitted Lyoto Machida from the list because his case is truly unique in that the substance was taken while it was not prohibited, but then a few weeks after, the new prohibited list came out and at that time it was too late because it was already in his system. I didn't leave him off because we are close personal friends. A cheat is a cheat.

1. Jon Jones
2. Anderson Silva
3. Frank Mir
4. Royce Gracie
5. Josh Barnett
6. Mark Kerr
7. Brock Lesnar
8. BJ Penn
9. Junior Dos Santos
10. Ken Shamrock
11. Sean Sherk
12. Tim Sylvia

BJ Penn? An IV bag With water, salts, and glucose?

 

[Congo66]

Its funny, I agree with your second paragraph. But your first sentence is pointless; you cannot prove a negative except in very limited cases (math problems). You can't prove they aren't getting help from aliens either, but it'd be up to the person making the claim to prove it, rather than the other person having to prove no aliens were involved.

Why's that funny? It's seems a bit pedantic to me as if you can understand the second paragraph you should be able to work out why I wrote the first one.

 

[HUGHPHUG]

UFC 104

UFC 142

UFC 210

 

[cshireman4]

There's no other way to put it other than to say these people are god damn cheats and people with very low morals. Everything they accomplished means $%#@ because they are cheaters.

You'll notice that I omitted Lyoto Machida from the list because his case is truly unique in that the substance was taken while it was not prohibited, but then a few weeks after, the new prohibited list came out and at that time it was too late because it was already in his system. I didn't leave him off because we are close personal friends. A cheat is a cheat.

1. Jon Jones
2. Anderson Silva
3. Frank Mir
4. Royce Gracie
5. Josh Barnett
6. Mark Kerr
7. Brock Lesnar
8. BJ Penn
9. Junior Dos Santos
10. Ken Shamrock
11. Sean Sherk
12. Tim Sylvia

 

[Dbreiden83080]

So what banned substance did BJ Penn take then?

He got too much sand in his shorts sitting on the beach instead of training for GSP.

 

[Failwani]

Yall really think PEDs just turn someone into a metahuman.

 

[dildos]

I'd pretend to care, but most of them are cheats in some way shape or form. You can tell a good fighter from a bad one, and I don't think PEDs factor in as much as people think.

hmm... vitor on peds in 2013 was the best middleweight in the world let alone best sub 205 fighter in the world. weidman was doing everything he could to avoid the fight including asking serra and longo to drop 110lbs dumbbells on his knees from two storeys up.

vitor without peds 1.5 years after was getting tkod by that can weidman.

peds do help, even make spinning shit happen sometimes.

also, i just want to say irrelevant to your post.

vitor with all the peds in the world would knock out anderson on all the peds in the world.

 

[TheHNICuLuv2Hate]