170 is the one division where the UFC champ might not be the best fighter | Page 4

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Breakfast Bar, Jan 12, 2018 at 2:00 PM.

  1. Breakfast Bar Brown Belt

    Breakfast Bar
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    Ummm...do people even realize that Rory and Askren are fighting in different orgs? There is no comparison to LW or MW where there is just contention about which UFC fighter is the best.
     
    #61
  2. ThEiCeMaN6791 Green Belt

    ThEiCeMaN6791
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    TJ isn’t a flyweight.
     
    #62
  3. MysticCam Purple Belt

    MysticCam
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    That is pretty good for someone who went up a weight class
     
    #63
  4. ThEiCeMaN6791 Green Belt

    ThEiCeMaN6791
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    That’s probably how most champions would fare one weight class up.
     
    #64
  5. PEDS Help me Post Brown Belt

    PEDS Help me Post
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    I think Vitaly Minakov could be the best HW in the world.

    Not sure who I would pick between him and Stipe.
     
    #65
  6. Mohawk Banditó Green Belt

    Mohawk Banditó
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    To be fair, most people think Wonderboy beat Woodley too, at least according to the ruleset (even if it was a boring fight other than the times Wonderboy was getting his shit pushed in).

    As for Rory, well any time you're fighting a guy with a broken nose, you're not fighting the same guy. Can't take any points away from Lawler cuz he's the one who broke it, but imagine if a Rory that couldn't breathe at all stayed that competitive, was already up arguably 3 rounds by round 5, and rocked him with that headkick that had Robbie looking to survive just the round before, what a full Rory could do to him. Now, "what if's" don't matter when they don't happen, I'm just saying you could do 100 fights and not get your nose broken and I think it's far more likely that Robbie just happened to hit it, rather than he focused on hitting it early to drain Rory for later rounds
     
    #66
  7. BKB92 Green Belt

    BKB92
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    No mention his fights with Stephen Thompson both being draws at best?
     
    #67
  8. CC27 Gold Belt

    CC27
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    Ben Askren has no claim, he hasnt been fighting anyone.

    ROry is interesting but though he beat Tyron few years ago he did just lose back to back fights in UFC over guys Tyron just beat.

    That puts Tyron at the top. Had Rory maybe not lost to Wonderboy on his way out and he just lost to Lawler he'd probably have a strong case but the Wonderboy loss set him back and fact Tyron beat Wonderboy.
     
    #68
  9. CC27 Gold Belt

    CC27
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    Also since their fight Rory has gone 2-2 with wins over Daley and Tarec and losses to Lawler and Wonderboy.

    Tyron has gone 5-0-1 with wins over Kelvin, Stun Gun, Lawler, Wonderboy and Maia
     
    #69
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  10. MysticCam Purple Belt

    MysticCam
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    1.Lawler beat Rory twice

    2. Anyone that had Rory ahead in that 2nd fight was drunk
     
    #70
  11. Franc Mittelo Purple Belt

    Franc Mittelo
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    I think Conor is the weakest champ. Guys like Joe Duffy, Paul Felder, James Vick and even some tough Bellator 155ers have a good chance of beating him.

    I am not at all convinced that Conor McGregor is a Top 20 LW in the world. The guy was finished by a fighter who had to cut a vacation short. All jokes aside, that is a serious lack of quality.
     
    #71
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  12. shortlefthook 305 where I reside

    shortlefthook
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    This post is biased as hell, you say it's just "good match making" yet you bring up how Rory beats Tyron who's a good stylistic matchup for Rory.

    You do realize Rory has lost to three guys that Tyron beat? Two of them finished rory, Tyron can beat more top competition than Rory he's the better champion.
     
    #72
  13. Lay N Pray 101 2017 Sherdogger of the Year (1st Ballot)

    Lay N Pray 101
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    Stop it.
     
    #73
  14. shortlefthook 305 where I reside

    shortlefthook
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    Delusional, only morons think Thompson won those fights Woodley caused all the significant damage, there's no question Woodley won the FIGHT both time this isn't karate point fighting, Woodley cracked Thompsons shit twice and had him hurt, Thompson was never able to put Woodley in any sort of danger in the 10 rounds of fighting they had
     
    #74
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  15. djason1988 Purple Belt

    djason1988
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    You could say the same for several divisions. And honestly, I'm not sold that Woodley ISN'T the best 170-er alive right now. I doubt Askren takes him down, and he's evolved tremendously since the MacDonald fight. At this point, I think even GSP would have trouble hanging with Woodley, though I doubt that fight ever happens. Dude's got scary power, fantastic wrestling and takedown defense, and steadily improving standup. He's a tough match up for anybody. And I don't care much for him.
     
    #75
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  16. eighterumg5 Yellow Belt

    eighterumg5
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    So your telling me mma math doesn't work?
     
    #76
  17. TheLastEmperorReurns Purple Belt

    TheLastEmperorReurns
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    Woodley's 3-0 against the opponents that Rory is 0-4 against (Condit, Wonderboy, & Lawler).

    He's clearly better than Rory despite losing to him before his peak.
     
    #77
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  18. YOLOGOGOPLATA Blue Belt

    YOLOGOGOPLATA
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    Whaaaat? Oh my god thanks for breaking that news!
     
    #78
  19. Mohawk Banditó Green Belt

    Mohawk Banditó
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    Rory got ruined by Condit early, he became a safe fighter who held back and coasted, especially pulling back the third round, like the massive criticism he got for not finishing Penn or Ellenberger. He needed the first loss to Robbie before he turned his fighting style back up.

    Also, really?

    38-38 -Mindenhall
    38-38 -Breen. 39-37 MacDonald -Nelson, Sherwood
    39-37 MacDonald -MMAJunkie
    39-37 MacDonald -Burke
    39-37 MacDonald -F4W
    39-38 MacDonald -Braiterman
    Popkin describes it as a "Come-from-behind victory"
    Myers describes Lawler's win in the fifth round as a "rally" and Lawler trying to "go out on his shield"

    I haven't seen a single article or writer suggesting Lawler was ahead at the start of round 5.

    ..Yes it is. Fights are scored with points.

    Strange, I think only morons score fights by damage. Wonderboy won 6 of the 10 rounds they fought. In the first fight, going 3-2 didn't matter cuz Woodley got a 10-8, tying it up. In the second fight, Wonderboy won 3 rounds to 2 again, and as for Woodley getting any 10-8's in that fight? The NSAC director commented “The one judge that had it 10-8 — we went over it in the debriefing — and that 10-8 was unacceptable”

    So if you wanna go ahead and tell me what 3 rounds Woodley won in either fight, that'd be nice. Otherwise, take the moronic "durr damage" argument and shove it up Pride's ass, cuz that's not how MMA is scored. If you wanna get into it on whether or not fights should be scored that way, fine. I think it's ridiculous and scoring has always been overdue for a massive overhaul. You wanna argue that Woodley would beat Wonderboy without time limits? I'd agree, Woodley came WAY closer to beating Wonderboy than Wonderboy ever hoped of finishing Woodley, and if they fought to a finish, I'd bet on Woodley every time. Wanna argue that Woodley is the better overall fighter? Absolutely, he looked more well-rounded and dangerous throughout both fights, just more tentative. Problem is better fighters lose fights all the time. Just like Woodley shoulda lost to Wonderboy.
     
    #79
  20. ermac88 Black Belt

    ermac88
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    What kind of weird logic is this??

    Junior Dos Santos and fucking Struve beat Stipe.
    So they can make claims to be more qualified than him?
     
    #80

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