20 Years Ago...

[gono btw]

haha you are a hardcore Okami hater, really.



Name one guy Tamura beat in Pride that would have much of a chance against Okami in his prime



At 34 Okami was still a top ten ranked fighter and would have a good chance of beating Yoshida in his second year as a pro.



Okami took that fight on 6 days notice and entered in the cage with 20lbs disadvantage. How ridiculous is to take that fight as prove for nothing.



Well Im sorry then. Thank you for your time

"you are a hardcore Okami hater,"

> tbh never cared much about him b4 this discussion

"Name one guy Tamura beat in Pride that would have much of a chance against Okami in his prime"

> It´s stupid to consider these fights since, like I already pointed at, Tamura was completely mismatched, either against ATGs @ openweight, or against lesser competition.

"At 34 Okami was still a top ten ranked fighter and would have a good chance of beating Yoshida in his second year as a pro."

> It´s coz you were not following high level sports back then, when high level athletes´ prime would end @ 33-34 yrs old... I´ve already explained this to you.. sigh

"Okami took that fight on 6 days notice and entered in the cage with 20lbs disadvantage. How ridiculous is to take that fight as prove for nothing."

> Pathetic.

Ive been explaining to you that most Tamura´s fights were @ openweight where he was truly undersized, vs HWs, the opposite of Okami´s career, and when Okami faces "the same situation" [vs a LHW], you cry... Okami fought less than 2 months b4 this fight, while Tamura fought some 9 months b4 the Yoshida fight, @ 34 yrs old.
BTW, Tamura dominated the round, didnt get "destroyed" as u said, but made a mistake and paid for it.

 

[Durruti]

By the time he signed with Pride, he was already 33 yrs old, and back in the days, 33-34 was the real limit for a physical prime...

Remember: his 1st fight in Pride was a title shot vs no less than Wand [shows how highly considered he was].

Then he was somehow mismatched imo: vs no less than HW Big Nog, Sapp too [beatable but tough client due to the size]..

His loss to Yoshida was clearly a disappointment imo...

Tamura vs Kondo would have been a war, but I believe Tamura kicks harder...

vs Okami, I believe Tamura would have beaten him too...

Tamura is the greatest shoot style wrestler of all time. His credentials as a a fighter are very good, but not as great as you make it out to be.
If you look at Tamura vs Volk Han and you believe you are watching a real fight...enough said.

Kondo had better hands and footwork than Tamura, just a better standup fighter, and Tamura's TD's wasnt that good so it could have been a war but the advantage is clearly in Kondo based on his credentials.
Okami would dominate Tamura, maybe even in the feet , but one thing is sure, if Okami feels uncomfortable in the feet, Tamura would not stop his takedown. And if you think Tamura would work those fancy moves in the ground with Okami that you see in his shoot matches with Volk-Han then that's prettty funny from you haha

 

[gono btw]

Tamura is the greatest shoot style wrestler of all time. His credentials as a a fighter are very good, but not as great as you make it out to be.
If you look at Tamura vs Volk Han and you believe you are watching a real fight...enough said.

Kondo had better hands and footwork than Tamura, just a better standup fighter, and Tamura's TD's wasnt that good so it could have been a war but the advantage is clearly in Kondo based on his credentials.
Okami would dominate Tamura, maybe even in the feet , but one thing is sure, if Okami feels uncomfortable in the feet, Tamura would not stop his takedown. And if you think Tamura would work those fancy moves in the ground with Okami that you see in his shoot matches with Volk-Han then that's prettty funny from you haha

If you believe Okami would dominate Tamura on the feet, you dont know what you´re talkin about and it´s laughable.

Okami in the current fight configuration would be favoured since he would 'panick' and clinch after the 1st shots on the feet, then TD and grind a boring decision.

On a sidenote, the Volk Han fights are shoots but are interesting if you want to have a look at the evolution of these dudes, especially the transitions on the grounds.
BTW, you think he did slick transitions only vs him?

 

[Durruti]

If you believe Okami would dominate Tamura on the feet, you dont know what you´re talkin about and it´s laughable.

Okami in the current fight configuration would be favoured since he would 'panick' and clinch after the 1st shots on the feet, then TD and grind a boring decision.

On a sidenote, the Volk Han fights are shoots but are interesting if you want to have a look at the evolution of these dudes, especially the transitions on the grounds.

Why are you so much hyperbolic? Okami literally got a tittle shot in modern UFC (2011) by dominating three guys in a row in the feet, I mean purposely avoiding the ground game and keeping the fight standing to win it there. And actually had as much succes with it that got him a shot for the belt in the #1 promotion at that moment. So you saying Okami "panick" after the first shot doesnt sound serious, when someone needs to rely on hyperbolics doesnt helps much his argument.

Anyways, if Okami isnt able to find his range in the feet, as you say he would force the clinch, trip and keep it down with GnP. Boring? Probably. But if you think Tamura would work the transitions he worked with Volk-Han in shoots then thats indeed laughable.

About fight configuration...well, its the one adopted by pretty much every single mma promotion from every corner in the world so...it's everyone stupid or laughable? No man, it's that the sport of mma has evolved in its own direction and it's what it is.

 

[gono btw]

Why are you so much hyperbolic? Okami literally got a tittle shot in modern UFC (2011) by dominating three guys in a row in the feet, I mean purposely avoiding the ground game and keeping the fight standing to win it there. And actually had as much succes with it that got him a shot for the belt in the #1 promotion at that moment. So you saying Okami "panick" after the first shot doesnt sound serious, when someone needs to rely on hyperbolics doesnt helps much his argument.

Anyways, if Okami isnt able to find his range in the feet, as you say he would force the clinch, trip and keep it down with GnP. Boring? Probably. But if you think Tamura would work the transitions he worked with Volk-Han in shoots then thats indeed laughable. None of it would work very likely and the only way he could escape from that position is if the referee steps in.

About fight configuration...well, its the one adopted by pretty much every single mma promotion from every corner in the world so...it's everyone stupid or laughable? No man, it's that the sport of mma has evolved in its own direction and it's what it is.

Fight Configuration depends on a market targetted by the MMA Org, willing to satisfy a certain type of entertainment. Dunno why you wanna see any stupidity there...

The current Fight Configuration favours someone like Okami, and he made the best of it in his UFC stint, when Ground Control is the main paradigm.

You didnt read the whole. thread, but the point is that they both signed with Pride in 2002, that´s when and where they could have fought, realistically: Okami was a rookie then, but some people like this other dude in this thread claims that Rings or Early Pancrase were not 'real fighting', consequently Tamura would have been a rookie too in his Pride debut.
This explains why your post is somehow irrelevant.

 

[Durruti]

Fight Configuration depends on a market targetted by the MMA Org, willing to satisfy a certain type of entertainment. Dunno why you wanna see any stupidity there...

The current Fight Configuration favours someone like Okami, and he made the best of it in his UFC stint, when Ground Control is the main paradigm.

You didnt read the whole. thread, but the point is that they both signed with Pride in 2002, that´s when and where they could have fought, realistically: Okami was a rookie then, but some people like this other dude in this thread claims that Rings or Early Pancrase were not 'real fighting', consequently Tamura would have been a rookie too in his Pride debut.
This explains why your post is somehow irrelevant.

What do you mean by the MMA Org? Like some judeo-masonic shit?
The fight configuration is what it is, and even a land with so much tradition of shoot wrestling as Japan has ended adopting what you call "current fight configuration" in their own mma promotions so...

Again, Okami got a tittle shot in UFC by keeping fights standing and dominating them there, not about ground control in many cases but about range control in the fight standing. Funny how you prefer to obviate this.

About whether if Rings or Early Pancrase were real fighting or not, I think is a pretty pointless discussion. They were what they were.
What I know is that Okami would be a pretty dull and mediocre shoot wrestler, unlike Tamura.
What I also think is that the best verion of Okami would dominate the best version of Tamura under the rule set of any of the major MMA promotions that exist in the world today.

 

[gono btw]

What do you mean by the MMA Org? Like some judeo-masonic shit?
The fight configuration is what it is, and even a land with so much tradition of shoot wrestling as Japan has ended adopting what you call "current fight configuration" in their own mma promotions so...

Again, Okami got a tittle shot in UFC by keeping fights standing and dominating them there, not about ground control in many cases but about range control in the fight standing. Funny how you prefer to obviate this.

About whether if Rings or Early Pancrase were real fighting or not, I think is a pretty pointless discussion. They were what they were.
What I know is that Okami would be a pretty dull and mediocre shoot wrestler, unlike Tamura.
What I also think is that the best verion of Okami would dominate the best version of Tamura under the rule set of any of the major MMA promotions that exist in the world today.

ok you understood nothing.

 

[Durruti]

ok you understood nothing.

Dont be a kid, boy.
If you are empty of arguments, or you just dont want to discuss, no problem but your answer is the one of a little 4 years old kid

 

[gono btw]

Dont be a kid, boy.
If you are empty of arguments, or you just dont want to discuss, no problem but your answer is the one of a little 4 years old kid

if you cant read btw the lines, then let it go, dont feel like losing more time

 

[pankrat]

Fight Configuration depends on a market targetted by the MMA Org, willing to satisfy a certain type of entertainment. Dunno why you wanna see any stupidity there...

You say nothing with that except avoiding the point of the discussion

The current Fight Configuration favours someone like Okami, and he made the best of it in his UFC stint, when Ground Control is the main paradigm.
You didnt read the whole. thread, but the point is that they both signed with Pride in 2002, that´s when and where they could have fought, realistically: Okami was a rookie then, but some people like this other dude in this thread claims that Rings or Early Pancrase were not 'real fighting', consequently Tamura would have been a rookie too in his Pride debut.
This explains why your post is somehow irrelevant.

You say in your TS Tamura, as Frank Shamrock, were already looking to "adquire/showcase a true well-rounded skillset [=someone who can be a threat wherever the fight goes]" so it made them "modern fighters".

I opened this discussion to you, asking about how do you think the "modern" skill set of Tamura would do against the "modern" skill set of Okami under "modern" Figt Configutation. (comparing to Okami as the most notable modern middleweight Japanese fighter in the last decade).

I pointed to you that it was indeed a "fiction game", it is physicalli imposible to figure that out as they werent contemporaries. I just invited you to play if you wanted.

 

[gono btw]

You say nothing with that except avoiding the point of the discussion



You say in your TS Tamura, as Frank Shamrock, were already looking to "adquire/showcase a true well-rounded skillset [=someone who can be a threat wherever the fight goes]" so it made them "modern fighters".

I opened this discussion to you, asking about how do you think the "modern" skill set of Tamura would do against the "modern" skill set of Okami under "modern" Figt Configutation. (comparing to Okami as the most notable modern middleweight Japanese fighter in the last decade).

I pointed to you that it was indeed a "fiction game", it is physicalli imposible to figure that out as they werent contemporaries. I just invited you to play if you wanted.

hey dude, they both signed with Pride in 2002, you said Rings was not real fighting, so basically it would have been a fair fight in 2002, why cant you fail to stay coherent with your line of thinking?

As I stated, in a modern current fight configuration, like the current UFC, your hero could obviously win a lousy decision.

But to say that he would outstrike Tamura? You´re ridiculous. Even Maurice was hespecting Tamura in his 2nd fight.

 

[Deleted member 510653]

A couple of Japanese cans I don't even know, what memories

 

[pankrat]

hey dude, they both signed with Pride in 2002, you said Rings was not real fighting, so basically it would have been a fair fight in 2002, why cant you fail to stay coherent with your line of thinking?

It's funny that only after this ridiculous reply, you actually stick to the point of the discussion as follows:

As I stated, in a modern current fight configuration, like the current UFC, your hero could obviously win a lousy decision.

Ok, now you stick to the point.
Your "modern current fight configuration" argument could invite to another discussion about compat sports depending on the rule set but you know thats not the point here.

The point is who would be more succesful, not only in UFC or any current major mma promotion, but in a real fight. To prove the most effective tecniques in a real fightt, or the closest to it, has always been the essence of martial arts.
Let's just restrict head butts, low blows, gauguing and biting, as has been so since the very early days of mma as a sport

Tamura's skill set and athleticism vs Okami's skill set and athleticism. simple as that.
My opinion is Tamura would get busted with GnP under any fight configuration that allows GnP;
Your opinion is Okami just could win by lousy dec of ground control and is fine. Thanks

 

[pankrat]

But to say that he would outstrike Tamura? You´re ridiculous. Even Maurice was hespecting Tamura in his 2nd fight.

Do you really think Tamura had such great striking credentials?
By your account Stun Gun Kim, Nate Marquardt or Hector Lombard wouldnt have a chance outstriking Tamura. Yuki Kondo, on the other hand, yes. Is that right? If so cool, I think you are either overstamiting Kiyoshi a bit or badly understamiting Okami's standup fighting.

 

[gono btw]

It's funny that only after this ridiculous reply, you actually stick to the point of the discussion as follows:



Ok, now you stick to the point.
Your "modern current fight configuration" argument could invite to another discussion about compat sports depending on the rule set but you know thats not the point here.

The point is who would be more succesful, not only in UFC or any current major mma promotion, but in a real fight. To prove the most effective tecniques in a real fightt, or the closest to it, has always been the essence of martial arts.
Let's just restrict head butts, low blows, gauguing and biting, as has been so since the very early days of mma as a sport

Tamura's skill set and athleticism vs Okami's skill set and athleticism. simple as that.
My opinion is Tamura would get busted with GnP under any fight configuration that allows GnP;
Your opinion is Okami just could win by lousy dec of ground control and is fine. Thanks

dude, you´re repeating yourself...

On a sidenote, your "UFC is close to real fighting" is ridiculous.

Go watch Vale Tudo fights, IVC tournament... and try to acknowledge the difference.

 

[gono btw]

Do you really think Tamura had such great striking credentials?
By your account Stun Gun Kim, Nate Marquardt or Hector Lombard wouldnt have a chance outstriking Tamura. Yuki Kondo, on the other hand, yes. Is that right? If so cool, I think you are either overstamiting Kiyoshi a bit or badly understamiting Okami's standup fighting.

Okami would clinch after the first kicks, if you´re not aware of this,means that you didnt watch these fights we´re talking about.

Tamura was not afraid to trade with Maurice but would be outclassed by Okami?



Besides, you cant insist on comparing with 2010s Okami, who was by then already a legit borderline MW/LHW, while projecting Tamura in the 2010s would have to be realistically @ WW max.