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4 Point Plan - Weight Cutting Solutions
- Thread starter Matthew Fedler
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No. No more new weight classes. Id be ok with a higher heavyweight cap at lile 280. But that's it. The talent is stretched thin as it is with the current weight classes. No more.
Best solution is weigh them through out camp and make their weight public. With enough exposure and pressure people fighting in weight classes they have no business in will move. Also have fight day weigh ins. That would help with putting more pressure on the huge weight cutters and give cappers something to know about. The best thing about it, take it out of the shadows and shed light on it. Show how much they cut and what extreme measures they do to cut that weight and the public and the company will put pressure on them to fight in their rightful class.
Best solution is weigh them through out camp and make their weight public. With enough exposure and pressure people fighting in weight classes they have no business in will move. Also have fight day weigh ins. That would help with putting more pressure on the huge weight cutters and give cappers something to know about. The best thing about it, take it out of the shadows and shed light on it. Show how much they cut and what extreme measures they do to cut that weight and the public and the company will put pressure on them to fight in their rightful class.
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If a fighter chooses to not cut weight and fight someone who is cutting tho that’s their choice. Cerrone knew he went up a weight class and would be fighting bigger guys. Same With couture moving to heavy weight. Rumble I’ll give you since he should’ve never been fighting st ww, but he was making weight there for a few fights and got forced to move up.
I agree that the fighters need to be smarter when it comes to cutting weight. There’s never been a death in the ufc regarding a weight cut tho, and I’d say more than 80% of fighters on the roster have never missed weight. Over the entire history of the ufc, there’s only been a handful of fights canceled because of bad weight cuts, but when it does happen, everyone panics and thinks the rules need to change instead of blaming that fighter for not being disciplined enough.
This sport was built on finding who was the toughest guy out there and there wasn’t even weight classes. Now guys are afraid of fighting someone that outweighs them by 5-10 pounds
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I look at the current MM situation ; great fighter in an exceptionally shallow weight class, and he refuses to exit that weight class to take on more interesting fights. Do we really want to have more champions doing this kind of stuff and having potentially amazing fights locked away because of super small weigh class increments?
I'm not a fighter so whatever I say should be taken as just the ramblings of a fan, but fighters keep on talking about wanting huge money for fighting. Then I think it's time that fighters start acting like professional athletes and start keeping themselves in shape year round. Of course people will go up and down in weight, but guys blowing up 30-40 pounds between fights is absurd. They have no real other option than to risk their health making those weight cuts and it's silly.
I also have no issue with weigh-ins on the day of the fight, but I would also add a + / - 3 Lb allowance and keep the weight classes as they are right now. The 3Lb allowance gives the fighters some wiggle room for the fight-day weigh in so they don't have to starve or dehydrate. Specific gravity tests should be conducted on urine to ensure fighters are hydrated.... if not cancel the fight... after guys keep on losing their paycheck because they're coming in dehydrated or overweight I guarantee they'll start playing the game the way the rules state. It would be nice to see these fighters perform at their peak rather than after putting themselves through such a horrible weight-cut the day before the fight. No matter how you slice it that weight cut takes something out of the fighters and we're seeing lackluster fights because of it.
Just my $.02 but it's what I would rather see. My big issue with the current situation is why does the 170Lb champion weigh ~200Lbs on every single day except for the weigh in? Why not just fight at LHW? It's not impossible to make broad changes though it would obviously take a short period of adjustment where basically everybody would need to move up at least one weight class, if not more.
I'm not a fighter so whatever I say should be taken as just the ramblings of a fan, but fighters keep on talking about wanting huge money for fighting. Then I think it's time that fighters start acting like professional athletes and start keeping themselves in shape year round. Of course people will go up and down in weight, but guys blowing up 30-40 pounds between fights is absurd. They have no real other option than to risk their health making those weight cuts and it's silly.
I also have no issue with weigh-ins on the day of the fight, but I would also add a + / - 3 Lb allowance and keep the weight classes as they are right now. The 3Lb allowance gives the fighters some wiggle room for the fight-day weigh in so they don't have to starve or dehydrate. Specific gravity tests should be conducted on urine to ensure fighters are hydrated.... if not cancel the fight... after guys keep on losing their paycheck because they're coming in dehydrated or overweight I guarantee they'll start playing the game the way the rules state. It would be nice to see these fighters perform at their peak rather than after putting themselves through such a horrible weight-cut the day before the fight. No matter how you slice it that weight cut takes something out of the fighters and we're seeing lackluster fights because of it.
Just my $.02 but it's what I would rather see. My big issue with the current situation is why does the 170Lb champion weigh ~200Lbs on every single day except for the weigh in? Why not just fight at LHW? It's not impossible to make broad changes though it would obviously take a short period of adjustment where basically everybody would need to move up at least one weight class, if not more.
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Until they gas out in the first round and blame everything on a bad weight cut. I will ask though... wouldn't you rather NOT have to do a weight cut and just fight at your natural weight?
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I like points 2-4.
I don't think there you be enough competition to sustain a 285 lb weight class, maybe 250? I think 10 lb increments is a good idea but I fear it would water down the importance of belts even more that WME has already done, I honestly don't have a better answer though.
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ONE Championship™'s been using a very similar system for almost two years now and it's been working just fine. A few hiccups in the first couple months with some guys missing weight by a couple pounds, since they can't dehydrate and messed up their diet, but since then it's been pretty smooth sailing. Ben Askren (lifelong wrestler, so he knows about cutting weight) has even acknowledged that it's made his life way easier because he doesn't have to bring all his dehydration stuff with him whenever he travels for a fight-- and whatever makes a fighter's life easier with this kind of stuff is usually easier for a promotion-- and that he can't for the life of him figure out a way around it.
The only difference between what the guy said and their system is they just raised the weight-limit of all the divisions by a division, since 99% of fighters weigh within ~5 pounds of the division-up on fight-night anyways, and it's like an open secret that they weigh above their prescribed weight-limit but nobody has any problems calling the guys by their divisional title, so they just cut out the dehydration-weight middle-man. So there wasn't anything like having to strip all the champions and have all new belts-- stuff like that is automatically gonna get any proposal rejected by a promotion; you're just telling them to take away from their money-making stars the thing that makes them such big money-making stars (there's never been a fighter who was more popular not as a champion than as one.)
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The only weight class that should even be up for consideration would be like a cruiserweight of 206-225lbs, or make HW 206-225 and create a SHW with no upper limit. Creating a super lightweight is useless. If you're to big or can't make LW, and are too small or suck to badly for 170, them's the breaks. I think creating a SLW division only serves to dilute the current talent pools.
Not good enough for the UFC at 170? Go to Bellator or One etc. You (as a fighter) change to play the game, you don't change the game so you can play.
Fighters are going to cut weight and personally, I don't even think it's wrong. I would say 98-99% of fighters are doing it. Fighters will always cut as much weight as they can, to give themselves as big an advantage as they think is possible. Missing weight seems to be becoming more common. The weight cutting issue is supposed to be primarily to ensure the fighters' safety. It's become a game of inches and pounds, and that too, is unavoidable. Therefore I suggest instead of making the lowest weight they can safely (or dangerously) make determine in which weight class they choose to fight, use an upper limit and "mid-day/early evening of weigh-ins". Get the fighters making smarter choices, not riskier choices. Most probably won't agree with me, but they're more than free to express their own opinions and thoughts on the weight cutting issue(s). If the powers that be give a fighter free reign to cut as much as possible, they will push the envelope at their own risk.
As an example, I'll use a LW fighter because of the 15lb spread, and it's probably the busiest and most common division. If a fighter wants to fight at LW, fine. No problem. Cut the weight. 15lbs, 20lbs, hell even 25lbs, whatever floats your boat. I don't care, make that 155lb limit the night before. The afternoon/early evening of the fight, there's no discussions... you must be one pound or more under the limit of the following weight class. Meaning, for any LW any weight above 169lbs will be subject to a purse deduction to be awarded to the opponent. If a fighter wants to come into his fights at 180, fine. That's no problem either. You can fight at 180, but it won't be as LW. You'll have to move to WW. Weigh it an 185lbs... pay the piper (and your opponent) or move to MW.
I'm sure plenty of people will disagree, but to each his own. If this is really about fighter safety, then over time, I think you would see fighters settle in a more natural division suited to them. Weight cutting is not as much of the health issue as the rapid ballooning and deflating and the way it affects the internal organs. Again, my opinion is solely based on the fighter safety perspective, not what's feasible or not feasible. It would also affect enough fighters universally, so that overall, there would be a lot of movement, but it would almost be equal right across the board. Some of the huge WW's would end up at MW, Luke Rockhold would almost be certain to go the LHW, It would be one way to begin the phasing out of the flyweight division.
Granted, I haven't fought competitively in over 20 years, and again, most will probably disagree but personally... I don't care whether you'e 5'10", 5'11", or even 6'2". I don't care if you're 170lbs or 197lbs, I'd fight someone. Clearly there would be obvious (and most likely extreme) exceptions, but they're far more rare than common. I actually hated fighting guys smaller than me, I would rather the be the small guy fighting the big guy than vice versa. Getting your ass kicked by Stipe Miocic is a lot easier to swallow than getting beaten up by MM, lol.
It's the skill that determines your success or failure as a fighter. Blaming it on height, weight, reach etc. are just excuses. Fighters fight, and they win or lose. If you're scare of losing, then fighting probably isn't for you in the first place. I can't stand it when fighters make excuses. You fought, you lost. Live with it and move on. I've beaten way bigger guys than me, and I've lost to guys smaller than me. It is what it is, and it's all a part of the game.
Sorry so wordy guys. Just wanted to be as clear as I could.
Not good enough for the UFC at 170? Go to Bellator or One etc. You (as a fighter) change to play the game, you don't change the game so you can play.
Fighters are going to cut weight and personally, I don't even think it's wrong. I would say 98-99% of fighters are doing it. Fighters will always cut as much weight as they can, to give themselves as big an advantage as they think is possible. Missing weight seems to be becoming more common. The weight cutting issue is supposed to be primarily to ensure the fighters' safety. It's become a game of inches and pounds, and that too, is unavoidable. Therefore I suggest instead of making the lowest weight they can safely (or dangerously) make determine in which weight class they choose to fight, use an upper limit and "mid-day/early evening of weigh-ins". Get the fighters making smarter choices, not riskier choices. Most probably won't agree with me, but they're more than free to express their own opinions and thoughts on the weight cutting issue(s). If the powers that be give a fighter free reign to cut as much as possible, they will push the envelope at their own risk.
As an example, I'll use a LW fighter because of the 15lb spread, and it's probably the busiest and most common division. If a fighter wants to fight at LW, fine. No problem. Cut the weight. 15lbs, 20lbs, hell even 25lbs, whatever floats your boat. I don't care, make that 155lb limit the night before. The afternoon/early evening of the fight, there's no discussions... you must be one pound or more under the limit of the following weight class. Meaning, for any LW any weight above 169lbs will be subject to a purse deduction to be awarded to the opponent. If a fighter wants to come into his fights at 180, fine. That's no problem either. You can fight at 180, but it won't be as LW. You'll have to move to WW. Weigh it an 185lbs... pay the piper (and your opponent) or move to MW.
I'm sure plenty of people will disagree, but to each his own. If this is really about fighter safety, then over time, I think you would see fighters settle in a more natural division suited to them. Weight cutting is not as much of the health issue as the rapid ballooning and deflating and the way it affects the internal organs. Again, my opinion is solely based on the fighter safety perspective, not what's feasible or not feasible. It would also affect enough fighters universally, so that overall, there would be a lot of movement, but it would almost be equal right across the board. Some of the huge WW's would end up at MW, Luke Rockhold would almost be certain to go the LHW, It would be one way to begin the phasing out of the flyweight division.
Granted, I haven't fought competitively in over 20 years, and again, most will probably disagree but personally... I don't care whether you'e 5'10", 5'11", or even 6'2". I don't care if you're 170lbs or 197lbs, I'd fight someone. Clearly there would be obvious (and most likely extreme) exceptions, but they're far more rare than common. I actually hated fighting guys smaller than me, I would rather the be the small guy fighting the big guy than vice versa. Getting your ass kicked by Stipe Miocic is a lot easier to swallow than getting beaten up by MM, lol.
It's the skill that determines your success or failure as a fighter. Blaming it on height, weight, reach etc. are just excuses. Fighters fight, and they win or lose. If you're scare of losing, then fighting probably isn't for you in the first place. I can't stand it when fighters make excuses. You fought, you lost. Live with it and move on. I've beaten way bigger guys than me, and I've lost to guys smaller than me. It is what it is, and it's all a part of the game.
Sorry so wordy guys. Just wanted to be as clear as I could.
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My proposal would only add an additional 3 weight classes: 165, 195 and 225. Welterweight would simply get bumped up to 175 and the Heavyweight would jump up to 285.
You would only lose a few smaller Heavyweight to 225 (especially if done in conjunction with the weight cutting restrictions). The bump up to 285 would allow Struve, Lewis, Lesnar, etc. to still compete without having to cut weight.
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Men’s divisions would go from the current 8 to 11 total under my proposal. More champions = more stars for the promotion and more opportunities for fighters. Having 10 pound intervals also makes ‘superfights’ more likely because of the relatively small jump for lighter champions.
Most of the divisions that it would effect have plenty of depth. LW, WW and MW are almost always in the discussion of most stacked weight classes.
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Mighty Mouse is a weird example because he is fighting at the lowest weight class in the UFC and could probably cut another 5-10 pounds if it were an option. So he is possibly already fighting up a weight class higher than he has to. Being the smallest champion the extra ten pounds is also a disproportionate percentage of his body weight compared to others, making it a more significant factor if he were to move up (remember how much bigger Cruz was when they fought?).
Also if MM were just to have stayed at BW we would have seen him fight TJ, but it wouldn’t have been considered a ‘Superfight’, just a good fight between top contenders.
I personally just feel fans are too entitled. There has only ever been TWO Champion vs Champion fights in UFC history and only 3 people to have one two different titles. It is rare and that is what makes it special. Don’t expect them to happen all the time, just be grateful when they fall into place.
Also additional weight classes with smaller increments means there is more potential for those types of fights. Conor would certainly move up to fight someone like Khabib or RDA at 165, but less likely to fight Woodley at 170 for instance. Bisping would be able to move up to 195 against Rockhold instead of having to fight a much larger DC.
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Fuck this and you too. Way too many weight classes. 75, 85, 95, 205? That is one good shit between weight classes. RIdiculous.
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1 point plan.
Eliminate all weight classes
Make ufc great again.
Eliminate all weight classes
Make ufc great again.
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No, it won't mean more stars. Its more to remember, which equals fewer stars.
How many world boxing champions can you name?
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A fucking 3 pound allowance? That would lead to even more fucking fighters trying to cut weight because now they only have to make 188 instead of 185. Get that fucking shit out of here.
Leave fighters alone. If a guy can perform at a weight class, let him be. If he misses weight twice, give him a 2 year ban that is enforced by every athletic commission
Or howabout a real solution.
It has already been suggested that fighters should be weighed in again prior to their walk to the octagon. If in fact they are 10+lbs over the division limit they will be allowed to fight that fight but be bumped into the next class permanently. Also if a fighter misses weight twice, they get bumped.
If this were to happen I think it would make an overall better product. Guys wouldn't be as drawn out killing themselves trying to make weight. Wouldn't have to dehydrate nearly as much and would match guys that are far closer in real life weight. Couple the above suggestion with how California has changed the weigh in procedure and I believe that would solve a lot of the problems.
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The term "money fight" and "super fight" are thrown around so casually now they don't even really mean shit any more.
Want a money fight? Well, you're only fighting GSP or McGregor then, because the rest of the UFC fighters can't sell worth a pinch of shit.
As far as super fight goes? Even at Flyweight... TJ vs. MM is not a super fight. Hell even a fight between two champions might not necessarily be a super fight.
GSP vs. Silva, Silva vs. Jones... those would have been super fights because it would been between two fighters who were kicking ass and taking names for a long time. They defended time and time again, and would have had to go outside of their normal weight class to find someone who might dethrone them. That term would (and should) be rarely used, because fights and fighters of that caliber with long reigns are rare in itself.
Conor vs. Woodley? Not a super fight. Garbrandt vs. Holloway? Same, no super fight there.
Is calling fans entitled a joke? Or sarcasm? Unless by "fans" you meant fighters.
I wanted Conor to defend his belts in his own weight class(es), he never did. Conor's historic wins weren't earned, they were orchestrated (yes, there's a difference). GDR outright refusing to fight Cyborg. Bisping ducking Romero. Nate only willing to fight Conor. Woodley trying to bait his way into a GSP fight and avoid Maia. Interim titles being created to satisfy particular fighters or solely for marketing purposes with little merit or justification for it.
Like "super fights", interim titles should be rare and only in the case of a prolonged injury or recovery time for the champ. Any other reason would be more easily rectified by stripping the champ.
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Can you read moron? You can't dehydrate for the specific gravity urine test.
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195 would be perfect for someone like Johny Hendricks.
He has trouble making 185, but he’d be perfect for 195.
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