437 lbs to 250 - low carb

You are fooling yourself if you think all people's gene expression is precisely similar, and there's no such thing as people who store fat more readily and easily than others. This is as much scientific fact as that we breathe oxygen. Calories are a unit of measurement, not a type of nutrition. Foods aren't even of the same value in calories, for a reason. You're harping on his use of "normal" as meaning say, how you eat, or how someone else eats. That's now what he means by "normal" necessarily, it's vague for a reason. It just means selections based on a standard fare of what people see each day. And you're calling him a liar, albeit politely. Implying that biochemistry is a matter of will. Your notion here is about as useful as a financial adviser who merely informs their clients that they're over or under-spending.

Is he a "super-unique" case? Probably not, there have been other obese people in the world who likely have similar gene expression. However, are we all robots who respond to food exactly the same? No, and to indicate so is medically irresponsible.

I'm not at all calling him a liar. Just like the people on the show "secret eaters" are not liars, but are just confused about what they are eating. I realize that some people put on weight differently and it is almost completely genetics.

Look at this twin study:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199005243222101

They overfed twins 84,000 calories and the weight gain ranged from 4.3 to 13.3 kg...that is a 20 pound difference with the same amount of surplus. And the weight gain between each pair of twins were very similar suggesting it is genetic. So you are right. You are right about genetics. But they didn't gain this weight in a deficit.

I just think this mentality of being a special snowflake isn't always the best attitude to have. I wish Nemesis the best. He definitely inspired me in my journey.
 
For the record I do rough calorie counting - the low carb thing is just a mechanism to stay at a large deficit and not be hungry all the time, fat and protein is satiating even at low calorie counts. I feel better (no crashes) while eating like this, and generally more content. Calories ARE all that matter, but I also feel that certain people (me) have a very low bar for fat storage. Whether that means my REE is lower or not (genetic or otherwise), i don't really care anymore - it's just the truth and it's non-negotiable.

If I were on that range of the twin study above i'm sure i would have seriously fucked up the curve. I got out of control with cheat meals, and now every cheat meal "bubble" is aggressively reduced until its gone. In the period in which I regained the weight I was not weighing myself - which is a big mistake. One of my "laws" of weight loss is to constantly track your weight. Why? If you don't you'll end up where I am.

If you check my chart I linked on the other page

You see I eat pretty much the same thing every day. Its mostly to calorie control and also to have a reliable weight loss rate.
 
Not trying to be flippant here, but maybe it's time to try something other than a low-carb diet.

Your thyroid is probably virtually dead at this point, which is probably why your metabolism is so fucked. I would amazed if your TSH was below 2.0, and I would still be surprised if it was below 3.0.
 
Not trying to be flippant here, but maybe it's time to try something other than a low-carb diet.

Your thyroid is probably virtually dead at this point, which is probably why your metabolism is so fucked. I would amazed if your TSH was below 2.0, and I would still be surprised if it was below 3.0.

Wouldn't it of returned to somewhat normal during his significant time off from dieting and exercise?

While I don't have the data to back it up, I feel like after a 1.5-3 weeks of "normal" eating and rest I've returned back to normal.

If memory serves Nemesis works in code and describes many of his days as "Very late night at work, very stressful" which must effect his eating habits. Honest question here, does stress truly effect weight loss? I'm sure it'll effect your habit but in a controlled environment where everything else is held the same for the same person will stress significantly effect your weight?

Work stress kills my appetite so I've experienced the exact opposite.
 
Wouldn't it of returned to somewhat normal during his significant time off from dieting and exercise?

While I don't have the data to back it up, I feel like after a 1.5-3 weeks of "normal" eating and rest I've returned back to normal.

If memory serves Nemesis works in code and describes many of his days as "Very late night at work, very stressful" which must effect his eating habits. Honest question here, does stress truly effect weight loss? I'm sure it'll effect your habit but in a controlled environment where everything else is held the same for the same person will stress significantly effect your weight?

Work stress kills my appetite so I've experienced the exact opposite.

If he's stressed and has irregular sleep schedule then it would further kill his thyroid function. Perturbations in the sleep cycle is also in and of itself a major indicator of metabolic dysfunction. Not only that, but the rapid fluctuations in weight indicates severe water retention, which is frequently caused by both subclinical and clinical hypothyroidism.

Brief periods of eating carbs won't just magically revive thyroid function either. Carbohydrates facilitate the conversion of T4 to T3, they don't stimulate the production of T4. Extremely low-carb diets can lead to conditions like hypomagnesia and chronic subclinical hypokalemia, which would effect multiple systems including both TSH and T4 secretion. Other common nutrient deficiencies in low-carb diets are biotin, copper, pantothenic acid, calcium, and iodine. And just gorging without attention to micronutrients won't fix issues like this. Fixing these issues takes long term dedication and intention. Not to mention that being overweight in the first place can inhibit conversion processes that make those vitamins and minerals conversion into useful substrates more difficult (i.e. RBP4 decreases the availability of vitamin A which promotes insulin resistance, and avoiding carbohydrates decreases CO2 concentrations which is a needed cofactor for Vitamins K & D).

Thyroid function is easily testable as well, even if you don't have access to blood tests. Take an oral temperature consistently upon waking, 1-2 hours after breakfast, and right before bed, if your temp is consistently below 37C (98.6F) then your metabolism is depressed and either your thyroid's secretion of T4 or your conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver is severely impaired. The only people this rule takes some exception to are endurance athletes and other individuals who spend considerable time doing long bouts of high intensity exercise.
 
If he's stressed and has irregular sleep schedule then it would further kill his thyroid function. Perturbations in the sleep cycle is also in and of itself a major indicator of metabolic dysfunction. Not only that, but the rapid fluctuations in weight indicates severe water retention, which is frequently caused by both subclinical and clinical hypothyroidism.

Brief periods of eating carbs won't just magically revive thyroid function either. Carbohydrates facilitate the conversion of T4 to T3, they don't stimulate the production of T4. Extremely low-carb diets can lead to conditions like hypomagnesia and chronic subclinical hypokalemia, which would effect multiple systems including both TSH and T4 secretion. Other common nutrient deficiencies in low-carb diets are biotin, copper, pantothenic acid, calcium, and iodine. And just gorging without attention to micronutrients won't fix issues like this. Fixing these issues takes long term dedication and intention. Not to mention that being overweight in the first place can inhibit conversion processes that make those vitamins and minerals conversion into useful substrates more difficult (i.e. RBP4 decreases the availability of vitamin A which promotes insulin resistance, and avoiding carbohydrates decreases CO2 concentrations which is a needed cofactor for Vitamins K & D).

Thyroid function is easily testable as well, even if you don't have access to blood tests. Take an oral temperature consistently upon waking, 1-2 hours after breakfast, and right before bed, if your temp is consistently below 37C (98.6F) then your metabolism is depressed and either your thyroid's secretion of T4 or your conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver is severely impaired. The only people this rule takes some exception to are endurance athletes and other individuals who spend considerable time doing long bouts of high intensity exercise.

Lets say I took those readings and and they were low. What would be my next step of action?

If just placing carbs back in the diet is going to cause severe water retention is that something that needs to be avoided/addressed?

I guess my question after all this is where is low-carb's place as a diet then? Just a short term option?
 
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Lets say I took those readings and and they were low. What would be my next step of action?

If just placing carbs back in the diet is going to cause severe water retention is that something that needs to be avoided/addressed?

I guess my question after all this is where is low-carb's place as a diet then? Just a short term option?

Start slowly adding in carbs like fruit, potatoes, and oats back into your diet while evaluating your diet for micronutrient deficiencies (Cronometer is easily the best app for that). In particular, you should be paying attention to retinol (not beta-carotene), magnesium, calcium, niacin, selenium, and copper (small amounts of liver is an easy fix for three of these). Adding in glycine/collagen/broth can help a lot as well. There are some more esoteric/medical solutions I've seen employed with a lot of effectiveness (e.g. red light therapy, thyroid medication, supplements) but dietary-wise those are the main ones. Honestly, it means adopting a fairly new lifestyle.

Carbs cause water retention in the form of glycogen, which binds water molecules. When you re-introduce carbs back into your diet, you will gain weight - and permanently as long as you maintain full glycogen stores in your body. This water retention does not matter, and is good for you - full liver glycogen stores makes for a happy body. Liver glycogen stores and excess ATP from the liver acts as a satiety signal to the brain.

In my mind, low-carb diets are rarely essential. They have small places in the diet of athletes who compete in weight-class sports as a tool of making weight. They can be used acutely in diets that undulate calories, fat, and carbohydrate intake weekly (e.g. spike meals on weekends) - but this isn't necessary and comes with some not so great side-effects. Finally, most individuals on very low calorie diets (<1500kcal) will end up eating fairly low-carb just because after they eat protein and some fat there isn't room for much else. Purely ketogenic diets are completely stupid though. No one outside of some crazy medical outliers should be using them.
 
FierceRedBelt: I'm an executive producer in software development field. I run complex projects and oversee a bunch of developers.

Been plateaued for awhile now and not sure why.

On April 20 the shit hit the fan in our office and I had to work 80 hour weeks for 3 weeks. I went from walking 4-5 miles a day to doing nothing except on the weekends. As you can see there is an acute drop off in weight following April 20 - probably water weight from previous exercising being released. The stress was intense during this period but has decreased since then. Weight has spiked up a bit and plateaued since then. I think my most recent gain is from water, as I just started doing body weight exercises in preparation for going back to lifting weights and have INSANE doms right now (quads feel like giant balloons of blood and water). I am obviously eating at a deficit if you consider my log. Still, i haven't been at a "low weight" in over a month now. Getting quite discouraged.

Seriously-dead: Even before reading your posts I was considering thyroid issues/blood tests. My mother has an underactive thyroid, so its possible - although I don't think I have any other symptoms - like fatigue etc. I am going to get tested anyway. Also going to get a testosterone check.
 
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With your thyroid, get your TSH levels, Anti-TPO and Anti-TG levels checked. I have hashimoto's and it sucked until i got it diagnosed.
 
Also get T3 & T4 tested. It's common for there to be T4 to T3 conversion issues in overweight people due to fatty liver. TSH is really just the tip of the iceberg.
 
Unfortunately I don't think I got anti-tpo, anti-tg or t3/t4 tested:
test order here

I'm awaiting the results right now.

On another positive note my weight is starting to drop again after a long plateau, i spent the last weekend doing intense mountain climbing in the smoky mountains. Today I also went back to the gym and lifted for the first time in over a year. It was awesome, and it's a great new gym.
 
Results are back. Everything was in exceptional ranges except for total test which was 231L (250-827 normal range).

I do wonder if its because I took the test in the afternoon. Also, since im fat my test should be naturally lower? In any case I could probably argue for test supplementation, but im not sure about the side effects. Definitely seems to be a correlation between low test and body fat though.
 
I'm happy to hear that your thyroid health is good.

What did your doctor have to say about testosterone replacement therapy in regards to you?
 
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Problem is, if you re-take bloods for the testosterone level upon waking and you're 260, you'll be seen as "normal range" even though your level is atrocious. This is assuming your doctor doesn't appreciate the scaling levels of test with age.

I think bodyfat : testosterone levels are a chicken and egg scenario. Is your testosterone low because you're fat, or do you store bodyfat excessively because you have low testosterone?

Regardless that level needs to come up from where it is, you have the levels of an 80 year old.
 
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