Iraqi Kurdistan's President Masoud Barzani resigns after Independence push backfired

[tkotom]

LMAO. GTFO @tkotom.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyria

Empire dissolved in the 7th Century.

You're a fucking moron.

The Assyrians are the oldest surviving ethnic group in human history.

The same people and descendants of the Mesopotamians who gave us mathematics, astronomy, writing and more.

 

[tkotom]

But strange that people are supporting this and they aren't even 8% of the population. If you stated in the war room African Americans should have their own autonomous country this would be flamed and rightly so yet AA's would have more right to do so than the Kurds in my opinion.

It's because the Kurds have conned morons to think that they're secular, when in fact the Levantine Arabs are much more civilized. Women could walk around with their tits out in pre war Damascus whereas in Kurdish populated Eastern Syria, little girls were having their vaginas sliced up by their Kurd parents.

When western people think you're secular, you're therefore not Christian espousing and that's very sexy in the west.

That is why the Kurds are given such high regard over any Christians, even if the CHristians are indigenous and suffered more than even the indigenous of America, which itself is a horror story.

 

[Arkain2K]

Iraqi forces seize oil city Kirkuk from Kurds
Oct 16, 2017

Iraqi security forces and Popular Mobilization Forces patrol in Tuz Khormato, that was evacuated by Kurdish security forces, 130 miles (210 kilometers) north of Baghdad, Iraq, Monday, Oct. 16, 2017.​

BAGHDAD/KIRKUK, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraqi government forces captured the major Kurdish-held oil city of Kirkuk on Monday, responding to a Kurdish referendum on independence with a bold lightning strike that transforms the balance of power in the country.

A convoy of armored vehicles from Iraq’s elite U.S.-trained Counter-Terrorism Force seized Kirkuk’s provincial government headquarters on Monday afternoon, less than a day after the operation began, a Reuters reporter in Kirkuk said.

Neither side gave a casualty toll for the operation. But an aid group working in Kirkuk said several Kurdish Peshmerga fighters and Iraqi soldiers had been killed in an overnight clash south of the city - the only serious fighting reported.

As Iraqi forces advanced, Kurdish operators briefly shut some 350,000 barrels per day of oil output at two large Kirkuk fields, citing security concerns, oil ministry sources on both sides said. But production resumed shortly thereafter following an Iraqi threat to seize fields under Kurdish management if they did not do so, according to the sources.

It was not immediately clear whether or when the Iraqi government would seek to retake control of all Kirkuk oilfields, a vital source of revenue for the autonomous Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG).

The short suspension in production helped push up world oil prices as the shutdown represented more than half of total Kurdish output.[O/R]

A dozen Iraqi armored vehicles arrived at the provincial government headquarters in Kirkuk and took up positions nearby, alongside local police. They pulled down the Kurdish flag and left the Iraqi flag flying.

Thousands of Kurdish civilians flee

Thousands of Kurdish civilians fled the city of 1 million people for fear of reprisals. A Kurdish father of four who was driving out of Kirkuk towards the Kurdish regional capital Erbil to the north said: “We no longer feel safe. We hope to return to our home but right now we feel it’s dangerous for us to stay.”

Crowds of ethnic Turkmen who opposed Kurdish control of the city were celebrating. Some drove in convoys with Iraqi flags and fired shots in the air.

“This day should become a holiday, we’re so happy to have gotten rid of Barzani’s party,” said a man celebrating on a motorbike, waving the blue-and-white flag of Iraq’s Turkmen, referring to the Kurdish leader Masoud Barzani.

U.S. President Donald Trump told reporters at the White House that Washington would not take sides in the matter but ”we don’t like the fact that they’re clashing.

“We’ve had for many years a very good relationship with the Kurds as you know and we’ve also been on the side of Iraq, even though we should have never been there in the first place.”

U.S. officials called for calm on both sides, seeking to avert an all-out conflict between Baghdad and the Kurds that would open an entirely new front in Iraq’s 14-year-old civil war and potentially draw in regional powers such as Turkey and Iran.

The Baghdad central government considers the Sept. 25 Kurdish independence referendum illegal, especially as it was held not just in the autonomous KRG region but in Kirkuk and other adjacent areas that Peshmerga forces occupied after driving out Islamic State militants in 2014.

The Peshmerga moved in after Iraqi government forces collapsed in the face of a rapid onslaught by Islamic State, preventing the jihadists from seizing the oilfields.

Iraqi Prime Minister Haidar al-Abadi ordered that the national flag be hoisted over Kirkuk and other disputed areas.

Baghdad described its army’s advance as largely unopposed, and urged the Peshmerga to cooperate in keeping the peace.

The Peshmerga said Baghdad would be made to pay “a heavy price” for triggering “war on the Kurdistan people”.

Decisive step against Kurdish secession

The overnight advance was the most decisive step Baghdad has taken yet to block the independence bid of the Kurds, who have governed an autonomous tract of northern Iraq since the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003 and voted three weeks ago to secede.

Kirkuk, one of the most ethnically and religiously diverse cities in Iraq, is located just outside the autonomous Kurdish zone. Kurds consider it the heart of their homeland; they say it was cleansed of Kurds and settled with Arabs under Saddam to secure control of the oil that was the source of Iraq’s wealth.

Washington, which arms and trains both Iraqi federal forces and the Peshmerga to fight Islamic State militants, urged “all parties to immediately cease military action and restore calm”, according to a U.S. Embassy statement.

“ISIS (Islamic State) remains the true enemy of Iraq, and we urge all parties to remain focused on finishing the liberation of their country from this menace.”

U.S. Defense Department spokesman Colonel Robert Manning declined to speculate on whether Washington might cut off military aid and training to Iraqi forces in the event of a major conflict. “I‘m not going to speculate on that but I will tell you that we’re looking at all options for planning considerations ... We encourage dialogue,” he said.

State TV said Iraqi forces had also entered Tuz Khurmato, a flashpoint town where there had been clashes between Kurds and mainly Shi‘ite Muslims of Turkmen ethnicity.

The “government of Abadi bears the main responsibility for triggering war on the Kurdistan people, and will be made to pay a heavy price”, the Peshmerga command said in a statement, cited by Kurdish leader Barzani’s assistant Hemin Hawrami.

Secession opposed by neighbors

The Kurdish secession bid was strongly opposed by neighbors Iran and Turkey. Washington, allied with the Kurds for decades, pleaded vainly for them to halt a vote that could break up Iraq.

There were signs of internal strife among the Kurds, who have been divided for decades into two main factions, the KDP of regional government leader Barzani and the PUK of his longtime rival Jalal Talabani, who served as Iraq’s ceremonial president in Baghdad from 2003-2014 and died two weeks ago.

Both Kurdish parties control their own Peshmerga units. While Barzani’s KDP strongly supported the independence referendum, some PUK figures were more circumspect.

Monday’s Peshmerga statement accused a group within the PUK of “treason” for allegedly assisting Baghdad’s advance. “We regret that some PUK officials helped in this plot,” it said.

Talabani’s widow, Hero, said the Iraqi operation was carried out with international consent and the PUK was not able to prevent it through talks. “This heroic city was facing an international plan,” she said in a statement.

”The past few days have been spent in meetings with American representatives, representatives of the Iraqi government and ... of various other countries in order to prevent today’s attack. “It is with great regret that we were not successful on this occasion.”

Although Iraqi officials portrayed the Kurds as retreating without a fight, Kurdish officials said Peshmerga had clashed with the “Popular Mobilisation” - Shi‘ite Muslim forces trained and armed by Iran that operate alongside regular Iraqi troops.

Turkey, which had developed a good working relationship with the Iraqi Kurds and let the landlocked region export oil through its pipes, has swung behind Baghdad, furious at a secession move that might ignite similardemands from its own Kurds.

Turkey said on Monday it would close its air space to KRG territory and work to hand control of the main border crossing into the region to the Iraqi central government.


Additional reporting by Ahmed Rasheed in Baghdad, Dmitry Zhdannikov in London, Phil Stewart and Doina Chiacu in Washington, Tuvan Gumrukcu and Ece Toksabay in Ankara; writing by Peter Graff; editing by Mark Heinrich

http://www.businessinsider.com/iraqi-forces-seize-oil-city-kirkuk-from-kurds-2017-10

 

[Arkain2K]

And now the same Iraqi forces who fled before their sunni brothers in ISIS leaving the Kurds to be massacred and do most of the heavy fighting, are now pushing in to kill them with US supplied weapons.

At this point, you have to wonder why the Kurds haven't declared us their sworn enemy.

Senator McCain warns of 'severe consequences' if Baghdad uses US arms against Kurds
By Rebecca Kheel - 10/16/17

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) warned Baghdad on Monday of “severe consequences” if it uses U.S. arms against the Kurds.

“The United States provided equipment and training to the government of Iraq to fight [the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS)] and secure itself from external threats — not to attack elements of one of its own regional governments, which is a longstanding and valuable partner of the United States,” McCain, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a statement Monday.

“Make no mistake, there will be severe consequences if we continue to see American equipment misused in this way.”

Early Monday, Iraqi forces advanced into the disputed province of Kirkuk, which the Kurds have controlled since dispelling ISIS in 2014.

The U.S. military has trained and armed both Iraqi and Kurdish forces in the fight against ISIS.

The United States has urged both sides to remain focused on the fight against ISIS as the terrorist group is on the brink of defeat in Iraq.

The oil-rich Kirkuk province has been at the heart of the dispute between the Kurdish region and Iraq’s central government, and tensions between the two have risen since last month’s nonbinding vote for Kurdish independence.

By midday Monday, Kurdish forces were withdrawing from Kirkuk after Iraqi forces seized oil fields north of the city, its airport and a military base, according to The Associated Press.

The two sides earlier exchanged fire, which the U.S.-led military coalition in Iraq downplayed as a “misunderstanding.”

The Kurdish Regional Security Council also said Kurdish peshmerga forces destroyed at least five U.S. Humvees being used by Popular Mobilization Forces, Iranian-backed militias officially incorporated by the Iraqi government.

In his statement, McCain said he was “especially concerned” at the reports of the Iranian-backed forces' involvement in Monday’s assault.

“Iraqi forces must take immediate steps to de-escalate this volatile situation by ceasing their advances,” he said.

Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi and the Kurdish regional government should begin a dialogue, he added.

“It is absolutely imperative for Prime Minister Abadi and the Kurdish regional government to engage in a dialogue about the Kurdish people’s desire for greater autonomy from Baghdad at an appropriate time and the need to halt hostilities immediately,” he said.

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/3...quences-if-baghdad-uses-us-arms-against-kurds

 

[mon]

It's because the Kurds have conned morons to think that they're secular, when in fact the Levantine Arabs are much more civilized. Women could walk around with their tits out in pre war Damascus whereas in Kurdish populated Eastern Syria, little girls were having their vaginas sliced up by their Kurd parents.

When western people think you're secular, you're therefore not Christian espousing and that's very sexy in the west.

That is why the Kurds are given such high regard over any Christians, even if the CHristians are indigenous and suffered more than even the indigenous of America, which itself is a horror story.

Potentially fair enough, not that I know stuff all about the areas history and to be honest there's not one culture/people are immune from the criticism you're stating. I'm not responsible for my fathers crimes and neither are they.

For me its more that you have a group that's less than 8% of a population that's used to violence and warfare as a method of negotiation and people are thinking this will not end in tears, ridiculous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States
For me you're arguing a hopeless battle and should be debating with an analogy of sorts. African American people in America have approx. 12 and a half percent of the American population, should they be given a large chunk of America and allowed to govern themselves. Everyone arguing in favour of this should have no problems with what I just stated except its them that has to pay the price. Less is more in the middle east and if we every want to be able to extradite ourselves from that shithole(no disrespect) we need to mind our own business more and involve ourselves less.

This idea will create a bigger divide in a mishmash of different religions, cultures and loyalties and people are expecting it to work, they're dreaming.

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[PrinceOfPain]

The Assyrians are the oldest surviving ethnic group in human history.

.

The Khoisan would disagree.

 

[VivaRevolution]

It's because the Kurds have conned morons to think that they're secular, when in fact the Levantine Arabs are much more civilized. Women could walk around with their tits out in pre war Damascus whereas in Kurdish populated Eastern Syria, little girls were having their vaginas sliced up by their Kurd parents.

When western people think you're secular, you're therefore not Christian espousing and that's very sexy in the west.

That is why the Kurds are given such high regard over any Christians, even if the CHristians are indigenous and suffered more than even the indigenous of America, which itself is a horror story.

I don't care if they are secular. The Iraqi Kurds have their shit together. A year after Baghdad fell, Iraqi Kurdish cities were prospering.

 

[TheGreatA]

I think the will to self-govern is too great to deny, on the part of the Kurds. There is no way to suppress it, except through extreme levels of violence. Either we will have constant conflict between the Kurds and the Arabs, or they will eventually agree to settle in their own areas, and build their respective societies in their own mold.

Little chance of a peaceful resolution in the Middle East though. If the Kurds want their own country, they're going to have to take it through force. We know that it's not an Arab, or Persian, or Turkish mentality, to just give things away. They'll try to hold onto what they have possessed and fought over, for centuries. Which one cannot really criticize them for.

Maybe they should move to the West, and seize a piece of land over here. All they'd have to do, is sit on it for a while and hold a vote. They'd have Kurdistan up in about 10-20 years.

 

[moreorless87]

Potentially fair enough, not that I know stuff all about the areas history and to be honest there's not one culture/people are immune from the criticism you're stating. I'm not responsible for my fathers crimes and neither are they.

For me its more that you have a group that's less than 8% of a population that's used to violence and warfare as a method of negotiation and people are thinking this will not end in tears, ridiculous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States
For me you're arguing a hopeless battle and should be debating with an analogy of sorts. African American people in America have approx. 12 and a half percent of the American population, should they be given a large chunk of America and allowed to govern themselves. Everyone arguing in favour of this should have no problems with what I just stated except its them that has to pay the price. Less is more in the middle east and if we every want to be able to extradite ourselves from that shithole(no disrespect) we need to mind our own business more and involve ourselves less.

This idea will create a bigger divide in a mishmash of different religions, cultures and loyalties and people are expecting it to work, they're dreaming.

That really is an incredibly loose parallel, the African American population in the US is dispite obvious issues still existing obviously far more integrated into the country as a whole and spread across it.

Here your dealing with an ethic group that's far more localised with a separate history and already existing autonomy that had suffered brutal repression from the Iraqi government in living memory.

 

[tkotom]

I don't care if they are secular. The Iraqi Kurds have their shit together. A year after Baghdad fell, Iraqi Kurdish cities were prospering.

Prospering because that's where the Israelis and Americans were pumping money while 400,000 Arab young men were set loose on the rest of the country.

You are clearly misinformed.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Prospering because that's where the Israelis and Americans were pumping money while 400,000 Arab young men were set loose on the rest of the country.

You are clearly misinformed.

Lol, if all it took was money, nation building would be easy, and Iraq and Afghanistan would be on their way to being a 1st world nations.

 

[mon]

That really is an incredibly loose parallel, the African American population in the US is dispite obvious issues still existing obviously far more integrated into the country as a whole and spread across it.

Here your dealing with an ethic group that's far more localised with a separate history and already existing autonomy that had suffered brutal repression from the Iraqi government in living memory.

IDK, I think it'll be pretty easy finding people on sherdog let alone the whole American continent that would say they should and deserve to and that's without canvassing blm etc.

I'm pretty sure we have had at least one thread supporting this over the years.

Personally I find it funny that so many posters that are anti US involvement anything are supporting this idea just so in 10 years they can blame Trump or whoever when it goes to shit.

Almost every yes great idea poster has numerous "America shouldn't be invoked" or "why are we paying to fight their battle" yet can't see they're wanting to stick their hand in a blender over this.

When will we all learn, mind our own business.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I don't care if they are secular. The Iraqi Kurds have their shit together. A year after Baghdad fell, Iraqi Kurdish cities were prospering.

Meh I'm not so sure, they had less trouble with terrorists but they are also incredibly corrupt. One of the reasons the USA cannot really support Kurdistan is that Shia Arabs are still the most powerful group there by far and the best ally to have.

 

[Boxiana]

I just hope the US at least stays out of it even if they don't help

Too late - you see all that fancy hardware the Iraqi army is using...

 

[Arkain2K]

I think the will to self-govern is too great to deny, on the part of the Kurds. There is no way to suppress it, except through extreme levels of violence. Either we will have constant conflict between the Kurds and the Arabs, or they will eventually agree to settle in their own areas, and build their respective societies in their own mold.

Little chance of a peaceful resolution in the Middle East though. If the Kurds want their own country, they're going to have to take it through force. We know that it's not an Arab, or Persian, or Turkish mentality, to just give things away. They'll try to hold onto what they have possessed and fought over, for centuries. Which one cannot really criticize them for.

Maybe they should move to the West, and seize a piece of land over here. All they'd have to do, is sit on it for a while and hold a vote. They'd have Kurdistan up in about 10-20 years.

I think after this episode, they will gain greater autonomy and perhaps a better profit sharing deal, but sadly an Independent drive will go nowhere without international backings.

 

[Arkain2K]

Meh I'm not so sure, they had less trouble with terrorists but they are also incredibly corrupt. One of the reasons the USA cannot really support Kurdistan is that Shia Arabs are still the most powerful group there by far and the best ally to have.

In terms of corruption, despotism, and cronyism, I would say the governments in Kurdistan and Baghdad are on par.

Here's a good read on the KRG and NGO's:
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/kurdistan-ngos-iraq-1263593813

Then again, it's a virtual impossibility to find a government in the Middle East where the leaders absolutely refuse to line their pocket with "supplemental incomes", or award government posts on "special factors" other than qualifications. Corruption and Violence are practically the way of life in the Middle East.

That's why the Kurds' effort for self-preservation against ISIS while the Central government failed to protect their own citizens from getting butchered by the invaders is the only reason why I'm okay with an independent Kurdistan. Not economics, not religions, not politics, and certainly not whatever imagined bullshit tkotom will be ranting about today.

 

[Roaming East]

You're a fucking moron.

The Assyrians are the oldest surviving ethnic group in human history.

The same people and descendants of the Mesopotamians who gave us mathematics, astronomy, writing and more.

real shame they havent contributed shit to civilization in the last 1000 years though. Well, other than a distrust of bags of trash at the side of the road and the inability to carry liquids on an airplane.

 

[Undying Poster]

It's because the Kurds have conned morons to think that they're secular, when in fact the Levantine Arabs are much more civilized. Women could walk around with their tits out in pre war Damascus whereas in Kurdish populated Eastern Syria, little girls were having their vaginas sliced up by their Kurd parents.

When western people think you're secular, you're therefore not Christian espousing and that's very sexy in the west.

That is why the Kurds are given such high regard over any Christians, even if the CHristians are indigenous and suffered more than even the indigenous of America, which itself is a horror story.

Lol, you must have missed the entire point of the Syrian civil war and why it is so important for Assad to survive if you think Syrian Arabs are more civilized

They're "civilized" at the end of a gun barrel and when they're outside of the control of the regime, women have to cover up and minorities have to leave

The Kurds, specifically the Iraqi Kurds are also viewed positively for several reasons, but not the stupid one you brought up. Probably the biggest one is that Americans were always safe in Iraqi Kurdistan but in the Arab sections of Iraq, Americans are subject to kidnappings and murder.

They also have been attempting to break off for decades now and are far more organized than the Arabs, so we're sympathetic to a friendly people who are being held back by a hostile people

Meanwhile Christians are content being buttfucked by Muslims.

If the Iraqi Christians had been attempting to break away from Iraq for decades, are friendly to the West, and are well organized with their own leadership and institutions, we would most likely view them in the same light as the Iraqi Kurds

 

[Arkain2K]

The Kurdistan quagmire proves Newton’s Third Law
By David Ignatius | October 16, 2017

Iraqi forces advance towards the city of Kirkuk on Monday​

In this week’s crisis over Kirkuk, Iraqi Kurds are experiencing a painful version of Newton’s Third Law: In Middle East politics, as in physics, every action creates an equal and opposite reaction.

The initial action was Kurdistan President Masoud Barzani’s decision to push ahead last month with a controversial independence referendum, despite strong warnings from the United States, Turkey, Iran and the central government in Baghdad that the Sept. 25 vote would backfire.

The counter-reaction came Monday, as Iraqi troops, backed by Shiite militias, took control of a key military base and oil fields in the region around Kirkuk, an area controlled by the Kurdish peshmerga militias but claimed by Baghdad. For the United States, it was a dilemma of watching one friend make a damaging mistake, and another friend retaliate.

Some members of Barzani’s regional government in Irbil described the Iraqi move as a military assault, but a statement by U.S. Central Command, which oversees operations in Iraq, reported “coordinated movements, not attacks.” A Centcom official said the Iraqi advance had been arranged in discussions with the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. (The PUK, based in Sulaymaniyah, is a historic rival of Barzani’s dominant Irbil-based group, the Kurdistan Democratic Party, or KDP.)

Barzani’s allies have argued that Iran is secretly orchestrating the Kirkuk confrontation. But a U.S. official closely involved in policy described that allegation as “misinformation.” While Tehran and its Iraqi allies may have encouraged Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi to move on Kirkuk, U.S. officials said that it was Abadi’s decision — and that he would have faced heavy Iraqi opposition if he hadn’t responded strongly to the referendum and its breakaway bid.

A measure of the breadth of Iraqi criticism of the Kurdish independence move was a statement issued two weeks ago by Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, a moderate cleric who tries to resist Iran’s meddling. He rejected the referendum as “an attempt to divide Iraq and take its northern part by setting up an independent state.” Ever the balancer, he also urged Baghdad “to consider the Kurds’ constitutional rights.”

Having cautioned Barzani against the referendum, U.S. officials were peeved when he went ahead anyway. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Sept. 29 criticized the “unilateral” vote and said its results “lack legitimacy.” Prior to the balloting, Tillerson had proposed an alternative “road map” for discussions to resolve tensions between Baghdad and Irbil, but this last-minute appeal was rejected, U.S. officials say.

The Kurdish miscalculation has had unfortunate consequences. But sometimes in the Middle East, mistakes open the way for new discussions, and U.S. officials hope this will be the case with the Kirkuk crisis. U.S. officials were working Monday to establish joint security measures to reduce tensions near the Kirkuk oil fields, so that production can continue, and to share information on the ground and counter inflammatory reports that could escalate the conflict. Officials hope these initial military and intelligence contacts will be a prelude to a broader political discussion involving Barzani and Abadi.

“The U.S. wants to be an honest broker between the two,” said one senior U.S. military official. He warned that if tensions aren’t resolved soon, the confrontation could undermine the joint Iraqi-Kurdish stand against the Islamic State, which has seemed to be entering its final stage. “This could consume a lot of energy and cause us to lose momentum when we’ve got ISIS on the run,” the senior official said.

Iran may not be pulling all the strings in Iraq, but it has a decisive presence there and will benefit from the confrontation between Abadi and the Kurds. That’s the unfortunate irony of the Kirkuk clash: In a week when the Trump administration was trying to launch a new campaign to counter Iran’s regional behavior, U.S. officials must struggle to extinguish a sudden flare-up between the United States’ two key partners in Iraq — one that’s all the more frustrating because policymakers in Washington saw it coming.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...rtunate-consequences-for-kurdistan-in-kirkuk/