A Mini-Breakdown of Mini-Mendes's KO of Miles Jury. It's called SHIFTING

[PROlogic]

TJ Dillashaw, Chas's long time training partner, is a MASTER at this.

Check out his fights with Barao, he threw combos with multiple strikes (including kicks) from each stance in the same combo, Barao didn't know which way to block and got pieced up.

The tricky/brilliant thing TJ does is he combos and shifts into that awkward left high kick of his.

It's so hard to defend or predict

Even if you are prepared for it the way he throws it, it looks like it's going to the body, then comes up top..and just the angle of it...It's caught many by suprise

Striking in MMA at the LOWER WEIGHT classes is legit elite level

Jury had a perfect window to counter him, it's the same move as Conor/Aldo.

Yep

I mentioned this in another post

As soon as Jury saw the fient to the body, plant and counter, and beat the left hook

If you look at the Conor vs Aldo gif above

Look how Aldo feints and Conor is already excuting on the counter steps ahead of Aldo

But the fact of life is that not everyone is Floyd/Conor and can counter in that small window

I think a more viable strategy for Miles would have been to step in with Mendes as Mendes shifted and attempted to smoother that left hook/tie him up or level change underneath...instead of backing away.

Jury doing what he did was the worst thing he could've done

But Mendes is a beast too. That was a nice KO. I rarely feel compelled to do breakdowns. I'm a fan of pure skill so something has to be very skillful or extraordinary to get my attention

That kind of combo incorporated through shifting was nice

 

[Daweed]

Conor is the best striker to come into MMA, period. Why get freaked out that someone is a huge fan of his? gotten to?

Because there are healthy ways to be a fan. Being completely obsessed to the point of becoming creepy isn't one of them.

Why would I be gotten to lol ? As I said I like Conor myself. Even a known huge Conor fan in Skitzadactyl has the same opinion on TS.

 

[tjumper78]

He actually used a ninjutsu referred to as "the walking shadow" to appear further away than he was. A casual like you wouldn't understand.

thats what i thought it was. then the bullcrap about some dempsey thingy made me question my fight knowledge.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

Machida was out-countered by Shogun. At no point was Machida ever even a fraction of the counter puncher Conor is. Machida had amateurish boxing lol. If you understand boxing you know how much next level Conor is in every aspect from his leadhand game, fienting, combinations, angles, footwork, and many advanced countering methods like distance deception etc.

Machida was as fairly rudimentary as it gets. Machida was never even the best counter striker of his own division. Conor is the best in all of the UFC

You're being a little overly critical, but I agree that Machida never had the best hands - that is, as phenomenal as he was, he wasn't head and shoulders above his competition. His footwork, however, was outstanding, and he's a great reference for the topic of this thread.

 

[Airdack]

I want you to look at Mendes's feet and pay attention to how much ground he is able to cover so quickly.

He starts at the modelo sign and ends up on the UFC fight pass sign.

Now you may ask yourself how or what was the reason? Fret no more. I have the answers for you: ) Let us begin the breakdown.

It is called shifting. Also referred to as the Dempsey Shift.

Shifting is when you punch stepping forward into opposite stance and then punch out of it back into your original stance. No reseting. It allows you to carry the momentum of your punches and keep the combination going while covering distance.

It often times catches people by suprise because they are not expecting another punch from opposite stance to follow through etc

If you want to see a modern boxer who is brilliant at this. Watch GGG.

-Mendes sells the right fake to the body and uses that to step into southpaw

-Then Mendes comes up top with the left hook from southpaw back into orthdox

Honestly a very nice KO

You will notice Jury gets caught by the left hook as he's reaching. It's honestly hard to tell what he was reaching for. Did he think the left hook was going to the body. Was he trying to parry the left hook up top lol. Was it just a bad reaction? Only the fighter himself would know

But none the less, I just wanted to do a quick breakdown of this KO

You see the right fake to the body left hook combo up top a lot at the higher levels, but not many through shifting.

Interestingly enough, you saw Aldo try to attempt the same right fake to the body left hook up top combo against Conor

But there are levels to counter striking.

No one in the UFC - or in MMA history is - or ever has been on Conor's level of legit elite counter punching

FW just got very interesting with Mendes back in the fold

I personally think Mendes would be an absolute nightmare match up for Holloway. The level changing. His lower center of gravity to get in on his hips. His striking and submissions etc.

Conor is the only one who has ever made Mendes look bad on the feet. People simply forget just how next level Matrix Conor is

Mendes vs Ortega would also be interesting

Very nice KO by Mendes.

It's slick but Mendes is still open to a counter straight. Watch as he brings his right back and starts throwing the left. Chin exposed and overcommitted the left. Imagine instead of that reaching motion Myles did with his right he threw a counter. Myles just doesn't have the speed or timing to counter it, a better striker could have. It's a very risky move, same thing got Aldo taken out by Conor

 

[Shcooby Dooby Doo]

I'm surprised anyone is still mentioning Conor. He's ancient history. You find his last fights on a dusty old VCR tape.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

I want you to look at Mendes's feet and pay attention to how much ground he is able to cover so quickly.

He starts at the modelo sign and ends up on the UFC fight pass sign.

Now you may ask yourself how or what was the reason? Fret no more. I have the answers for you: ) Let us begin the breakdown.

It is called shifting. Also referred to as the Dempsey Shift.

Shifting is when you punch stepping forward into opposite stance and then punch out of it back into your original stance. No reseting. It allows you to carry the momentum of your punches and keep the combination going while covering distance.

It often times catches people by suprise because they are not expecting another punch from opposite stance to follow through etc

If you want to see a modern boxer who is brilliant at this. Watch GGG.

-Mendes sells the right fake to the body and uses that to step into southpaw

-Then Mendes comes up top with the left hook from southpaw back into orthdox

Honestly a very nice KO

You will notice Jury gets caught by the left hook as he's reaching. It's honestly hard to tell what he was reaching for. Did he think the left hook was going to the body. Was he trying to parry the left hook up top lol. Was it just a bad reaction? Only the fighter himself would know

But none the less, I just wanted to do a quick breakdown of this KO

You see the right fake to the body left hook combo up top a lot at the higher levels, but not many through shifting.

Interestingly enough, you saw Aldo try to attempt the same right fake to the body left hook up top combo against Conor

But there are levels to counter striking.

No one in the UFC - or in MMA history is - or ever has been on Conor's level of legit elite counter punching

FW just got very interesting with Mendes back in the fold

I personally think Mendes would be an absolute nightmare match up for Holloway. The level changing. His lower center of gravity to get in on his hips. His striking and submissions etc.

Conor is the only one who has ever made Mendes look bad on the feet. People simply forget just how next level Matrix Conor is

Mendes vs Ortega would also be interesting

Very nice KO by Mendes.

Ever

heard

of

paragraphs?

 

[ArtemV]

Mendes is so lucky that Jury has shitty boxing, and striking in general. Chad is always wide open to get countered hard.

Mendes is okay, he isn't as good as Overeem was at shifting. Same with Holloway and Dillashaw - they are the best at it imo. Shifting is nice, but leaves you so vulnerable when you strike with your weak side on your weak stance.

 

[PROlogic]

I guess we agree on some things and disagree on others, which is fine.

It isn't a coincidence that between the two fighters we are discussing who threw similar combos the one who didn't move his head of the center line got hit with a clean counter.

Conor is a fantastic counter striker, I'm not sure where you are getting the notion that I don't acknowledge that, but Conor being a tremendous striker doesn't alleviate Aldo of his mistake. Aldo presented Conor with an opportunity and Conor capitalized.

Aldo himself has acknowledged that he let his anger get the better of him and that he came in wrecklessly.

The fact that Conor was able to KO him during the one mistake Aldo made in a 13 second fight speaks for itself, no need to talk Conor up about it, the results are clear as day. And Aldo's hook landed and cut Conor, so offensively speaking it wasn't a Terrible punch, but he paid the price for his aggressive entry without lateral movement leaving Conor with that opportunity.

I agree the Mendes would be a Huge problem for Holloway, if Max ever makes 145 again, which I doubt. Chad is top 3-4 FW ever and he is a problem for anyone, He even had Conor in more trouble in mm than anyone except Diaz

Im enjoying the civil discussion. Thank you for being civil

"Head off the center line"

The fient to the body is misdirection. It's supposed to occupy the opponent or get the opponent to drop guard and leave up top open.

What do you think Aldo did when he dropped his weight to his left for the left hook (He changed head slots)

Lets not take any credit away from Conor's counter KO of Aldo

Lateral movement is a defensive measure. Its also to either draw in or to circle an opponent into a shot (which is aided by herding hooks/overhands - even kicks) etc

Then theres going on the offence...stepping around opponents to hit their blind spots, pivoting to change up the angles, forcing opponents to turn to you into your strikes etc

Theres taking the outside angle etc

"Lateral movement" has nothing to do with anything here

Aldo actually took the outside angle. Again do you know that's typically an advantageous position (which can be off set by superior IQ or tactics)

You can't appreciate the brilliant mastery of Conor's counter until you realise that Aldo did everything right, lead with the right combo, had the outside angle, and that Conor still counter fucked Aldo from the inside angle

Aldo had success with that same combo many times before

That same combo works like magic vs southpaws in boxing

The truth is Conor is the only time where we have seen in a big notable fight a southpaw counter that combo from an orthodox for a counter KO (boxing and MMA)

Conor is just a master operating on another galaxy. You can do all the right things, Conor still wins

I wouldn't trust anything Aldo had to say after the fact btw. Aldo is still bitter about that loss lol. Aldo had/has major sour grapes.

He wasn't "emotional"

He had how many championship fights at that level already?

Aldo was drawn in by Conor's lead hand probing systems/and his side kick to the knee that all in all had Aldo feeling like he had to get past all that and close distance

Then Conor's push and pull/tempo or rhythm manipulation (the bouncing in and out of range) which further drew Aldo in for the kill

Conor had already executed on the counter steps ahead of Aldo

Conor's left beat Aldo to the punch by miles

Aldo was already unconscious when his left hook fell into Connor. Aldo never landed a single shot on Conor as a conscious fighter.

You want people to be fair to Mendes, but you aren't being fair to Conor on the same level

And Mendes did not have Conor in any real trouble on the feet btw

 

[NoContest]

Mendes is a beast. Too bad Conor screwed up the FW and LW divisions for easy money, Mendes would murk him in a rematch with a proper camp.

 

[PROlogic]

It's slick but Mendes is still open to a counter straight. Watch as he brings his right back and starts throwing the left. Chin exposed and overcommitted the left. Imagine instead of that reaching motion Myles did with his right he threw a counter. Myles just doesn't have the speed or timing to counter it, a better striker could have. It's a very risky move, same thing got Aldo taken out by Conor

Pay attention to when Mendes faked to the body

It seems like Jury was in the slight process of dropping his lead hand to defend the body/getting ready to parry it etc.

That should have been a left hook right there.

There was still a 1-2 second window after the fake, to left hook or drop the counter right

Conor absolutely would've starched Mendes in that same situation

Anyone in general who wants to argue that Mendes was more "defensively reponsible" then Aldo was (or more technically sound) really doesn't understand

There was a much smaller window to counter Aldo because Aldo telegraphed much less - and shot the left hook up top much quicker after his fake to the body

No matter how many times people have to acknowledge Conor, they still downplay just how next level matrix Conor actually is

And yeah, you should read my post on page 2 where I broke down the actual flaw of shifting and when not to shift etc

Enjoy: )

 

[PROlogic]

. Shifting is nice, but leaves you so vulnerable when you strike with your weak side on your weak stance.

Naw. Some fighters are great switch hitters and are just as good from their opposite stance

You can't make a general statement like that

Also, it catches the opponent off guard because most wont expect a follow through from opposite stance and the amount of distance that gets covered etc

Watch GGG.

Shifting is what it is.

It serves it's purpose very well

But that doesn't mean you still can't get caught while shifting

And that also doesn't mean that there you can shift at the wrong time etc

Again, I refer to my second breakdown on page 2. Read it. You will enjoy it: )

 

[Jon eddward]

LOL ...yes, Floyd was absolutely 'rocked' by that arm punch. Throwing shitty arm punches so your opponent can't read them (also putting a little extra mileage on your 8 minute gas tank) = Next level!!!

Your post makes no sense. I don't know much about boxing but your post implies there are punches you can throw that are harder to read, therefore against a master like floyd you have a better chance to land them then a regular punch yet it is bad to use these punches.......? It's almost like you think anything that isn't proper or traditional is bad when the only thing that matters is what works. You can throw the most ugly bad form bad punch ever but if you have more success than masters, you are the master.

 

[CPH]

It's slick but Mendes is still open to a counter straight. Watch as he brings his right back and starts throwing the left. Chin exposed and overcommitted the left. Imagine instead of that reaching motion Myles did with his right he threw a counter. Myles just doesn't have the speed or timing to counter it, a better striker could have. It's a very risky move, same thing got Aldo taken out by Conor

What skillspaythebills doesn't acknowledge in his armchair expert breakdown ('Jury should have planted and countered or stepped in' ...fucking LOL) is that in realtime, Mendes dipping down wasn't just about getting his head off-line and loading up on the hook - it was actually the second deception in that sequence; to Jury, the feint-dip looked like the classic overhand (feint) to TD setup ...only Mendes exploded back up with a hook instead. This is why Jury was reaching out instead of covering or attempting a counter (skillspaythe bills: 'duuuh.. dunno why he dun that??').

 

[CerebralKnievel]

It's slick but Mendes is still open to a counter straight. Watch as he brings his right back and starts throwing the left. Chin exposed and overcommitted the left. Imagine instead of that reaching motion Myles did with his right he threw a counter. Myles just doesn't have the speed or timing to counter it, a better striker could have. It's a very risky move, same thing got Aldo taken out by Conor

Good observation. The only two guys who've taken advantage of it were Conor and Aldo, I believe, which says a lot about how fast and decisive Chad is with that shot.

 

[CPH]

Your post makes no sense. I don't know much about boxing but your post implies there are punches you can throw that are harder to read, therefore against a master like floyd you have a better chance to land them then a regular punch yet it is bad to use these punches.......? It's almost like you think anything that isn't proper or traditional is bad when the only thing that matters is what works. You can throw the most ugly bad form bad punch ever but if you have more success than masters, you are the master.

Boxers don't just rely on reflexes. They identify threats based on foot and body positioning. To a skilled boxer, the shoulders are a big tell - they tell you where the power is coming from and how much time you have to place your own shot.

In this sequence, Floyd knew that Conor had no time to come around with the shoulder and deliver a solid left. And he guessed right. Watch Conor's hips and shoulder as he lands the shot: there is a slight hip turn and his shoulder barely turns at all.

Now how do you figure a 170lb 'gorilla' connects directly on Floyd's chin with little effect? It was a hurried arm punch, 100%.

Conor did this a lot in the fight after rd 3 (which is when he realised that he was not going to get Floyd out of there) - he threw a ton of garbage arm punches from bad positions because he knew that Floyd would see any legitimate power shot attempt coming from a mile away.

 

[VERBAL-FEDOR]

How can one post these two posts back to back without realizing the utter irony lol ? I mean it literally look like you're responding to yourself.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Yeah.. and Woodley does the same to. Both guys are short, stocky but fast as hell and can cover a lot of distance.

I was just practicing this yesterday because I have a new training partner (kickboxing) that comes from taekwondo background and keeps running and throwing bunchs of kicks. The guy is impossible to catch upstairs.

Regardig Conor-Aldo... Conor did his homework and was expecting that exact combination. Aldo is really solid guy but he always stick to the basic. McGregor studied him.
Conor is a great counterpuncher (specially if he has the reach advantage) but lets not forget a journeyman made him panic wrestle.

 

[Johnny_Knuckles]

Mendes was thrashing Conor but gassed out because he took the fight on a weeks notice.

Yeah, mendes was thrashing Conor so bad that mendes ended getting ko’d in the 2nd round of a fight that he has said himself that he was preparing for before Aldo even pulled out.

 

[jeff7b9]

Your bias for Conor seems to preventing you from acknowledging imperfections in Aldo's technique.

Why must you insist that "Aldo did everything perfectly"?

He didn't.

Throwing a punch with both feet so close together they are practically touching is not doing everything perfectly.

It seems like you refuse to accept that because you feel like it dimishes Conor's counter. It doesn't. Conor had excellent footwork and control of distance and placed an incredibly precise punch all while moving out of the way just enough to avoid significant damage from Aldo's hook while staying in perfect range to land the left.

All of those things can be true without changing the fact that Aldo having his feet together and moving his head forward in a straight line was not "perfect technique".

Maybe someone can jump in with a third party opinion but I honestly don't see how you could debate this shy of blind nuthuggery.

Im enjoying the civil discussion. Thank you for being civil

Me too. Cheers.

"Head off the center line"

I know I mention that a lot but only because of how incredibly important it is.

Defensive boxing 101

Don't move forward or backward in straight lines with your head on the center line.

The fient to the body is misdirection. It's supposed to occupy the opponent or get the opponent to drop guard and leave up top open.

What do you think Aldo did when he dropped his weight to his left for the left hook (He changed head slots)

Dropping his weight and moving his head off the center line are two different things.

He approached Conor with his head moving in a straight line.

Look at Mendes and then look at Aldo. Mendes entered very similar to vintage Tyson. Low center of gravity with the head moving far off the center from side to side making his head a moving target while creating balance and power with his knees bent and legs wide.

Aldo was standing damn near straight up when Conor hit him, which besides limiting his power limits his balance and his ability to take a shot. Again, NOT perfect technique, which isn't a big deal, even the best fighters make mistakes and take calculated risks, he happened to get caught, and I am only pointing this out because you keep insisting Aldo did everything perfectly.

Lets not take any credit away from Conor's counter KO of Aldo

I never did.

Lateral movement is a defensive measure. Its also to either draw in or to circle an opponent into a shot (which is aided by herding hooks/overhands - even kicks) etc

Then theres going on the offence...stepping around opponents to hit their blind spots, pivoting to change up the angles, forcing opponents to turn to you into your strikes etc

Theres taking the outside angle etc

I agree.

"Lateral movement" has nothing to do with anything here

It really does, in a huge way.

Are you implying that it is pure coincidence that:

A) Mendes used excellent lateral movement, wasn't countered and scored a knockout. (Granted over a lesser fighter).

B) Aldo moved his head straight forward and got knocked out.

Lateral movement 100% matters.

Again I welcome third party opinions here.

Aldo actually took the outside angle. Again do you know that's typically an advantageous position (which can be off set by superior IQ or tactics)

It is generally an advantageous position. If done correctly...

It isn't an advantageous position if you are off balance standing with your feet together with your chin up and hands down.

You can't appreciate the brilliant mastery of Conor's counter until you realise that Aldo did everything right, lead with the right combo, had the outside angle, and that Conor still counter fucked Aldo from the inside angle

Aldo didn't do everything right. I'm fine with the rest off what you say though.

What Aldo did was a relatively small error that he had gotten away many times before but Conor had a perfect counter to capitalize on Aldo's mistake.

Aldo had success with that same combo many times before

That same combo works like magic vs southpaws in boxing

The truth is Conor is the only time where we have seen in a big notable fight a southpaw counter that combo from an orthodox for a counter KO (boxing and MMA)

Conor is just a master operating on another galaxy. You can do all the right things, Conor still wins

I wouldn't trust anything Aldo had to say after the fact btw. Aldo is still bitter about that loss lol. Aldo had/has major sour grapes.

He wasn't "emotional"

He had how many championship fights at that level already?

Aldo was drawn in by Conor's lead hand probing systems/and his side kick to the knee that all in all had Aldo feeling like he had to get past all that and close distance

Aldo has arguably the best leg kicks in MMA lower weight class history. He had the PERFECT tool at his disposal to be effective at long range and mitigate Conor's excellent range striking, he just didn't use it.

Then Conor's push and pull/tempo or rhythm manipulation (the bouncing in and out of range) which further drew Aldo in for the kill

Conor had already executed on the counter steps ahead of Aldo

Conor's left beat Aldo to the punch by miles

Aldo was already unconscious when his left hook fell into Connor. Aldo never landed a single shot on Conor as a conscious fighter.

You want people to be fair to Mendes, but you aren't being fair to Conor on the same level

All I have done is state technical details of the fight, how is that unfair to Conor?

Aldo doesn't need to be perfect for Conor's counter to be great.

A) Conor's counter was incredible.
(As i have already stated)

B) Aldo had his feet too close together and he came forward in a straight line with his head on the center line.

Both statement are true and one doesn't negate the other.

And as I said before, I appreciate the chance to engage in a technical discussion. I hope you make more threads like this.