A West Point Grad Wrote 'Communism Will Win' in His Cap | Page 16

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by alanb, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. colby25 Brown Belt

    colby25
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    was the kid just trying to be funny? And made a stupid comment- trying to get people fired up?

    or does he actually hold these beliefs?

    I find it easier to belief he just got carried away trying to get some laughs but maybe I didn't read the whole story.
     
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  2. Phr3121 Purple Belt

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    #302
  3. sub_thug Red Belt

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    I think I read somewhere he wasn’t getting a platoon. That’s the Key Development assignment for a LT, so when he goes for his CPT board, he won’t be selected. But yeah, I can’t see him making it that far. This is the kind of special idiot that a CG will actually go after and do the process for separating an officer (much like E-7 and above, this takes so much rank that it’s ridiculous). This young man and military service are not compatible. Oh well, the military isn’t for everybody.
     
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  4. Phr3121 Purple Belt

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    I was thinking, this guy had to have lied to get a Security Clearance. OPM can easily get involved in an investigation and revoke his clearance. This can easily be requested by any unit he gets assigned to. He still owes the U.S. Army some money or enlistment time for his four years of college. @Protectandserve
     
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  5. sub_thug Red Belt

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    He didn't necessarily lie on his security clearance. Just because he believes in Communism doesn't mean that he's ever been a member of the Communist Party, an organization that plans to overthrow the US government, or the other stuff that's on that form.

    As for paying them back for college, he definitely should. He won't have to because he was serving his obligation and then terminated from service, so he may be good by the letter of the law. But clearly, he's wrong based on the intent of that law. You'd need to talk to a JAG though, which I am not.
     
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  6. Protectandserve Black Belt

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  7. Phr3121 Purple Belt

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    So, based on the link above the guy was assigned Infantry, which means he will get a Platoon. What he posted on Facebook alone should have raise 'red' flags on his integrity and character regarding a Security Clearance. Also, a violation of the honor code at West Point - 'Quibbling'. Quibbling can also be used against you in a Security Clearance application or revocation of clearance. He served his time at West Point. That is different from contractual obligation of service for a 4 year education. He still owes 5 years to the military. If he is terminated from service he still owes the government money for his education.
     
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  8. sub_thug Red Belt

    sub_thug
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    So way back, many moons ago, when I was a Platoon Leader, we had a guy who had suicidal ideations. He was a young 2LT branched Infantry, and he was never given a Platoon. This joker is not even Ranger-tabbed, and that's the kiss of death for a young PL. I've seen guys not allowed to lead for that reason alone.

    I can't speak to Quibbling in regards to the Honor Code. I am not a West Pointer. But I am betting that he has had his security clearance for at least a few years. Possibly since his time in Ranger Batt or definitely when he became a CDT at West Point. And it's not like he tried to hide it, so how would OPM become involved? They did their investigation, found nothing that caused them to deny a clearance, and issued it. And it's a Secret clearance. They hand those things out like candy man. No one actually cares until you get the SCI after your TS clearance, and even then, I doubt there's that much scrutiny.

    Going back to my example about the PL who wanted to kill himself, he was an ROTC CDT that had a 4-year scholarship. And he was bounced from service, had to pay nothing back, and that was that. I'm betting that they treat West Point the same way. The military hardly ever actually goes after people for their crimes. If you've served on Active Duty, you know that. They get treated like pariahs, are discharged with General or Other than Honorable discharges, and that is the end of it. I've seen one court martial in my near decade of service, and the guy brought up on charges was a legit pedophile. He'll rot in jail for the rest of his life for all the stuff he did.
     
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  9. SMEAC Walt Kowalski

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    He wasn't given a platoon prior to this making news for lack of a Tab., and he quit school before this came out..this isn't going to be getting him a platoon in the battalion he is in.
     
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  10. Phr3121 Purple Belt

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    10th Mountain Division, Ft. Drum, NY. Went through 'Winter Warfare Training' there back in January 1990. Funny thing is that there are no mountains at Ft. Drum. Hills, but not mountains. Only time in my career as a soldier where I actually had the government pay me to go skiing. Froze my butt off, but overall, it was fun. The 10th Mountain boys are going to have lots of fun with 2LT Rapone. I would be scared if I was him. What an idiot to go Infantry.

    The 10th Mountain is a Light Infantry unit. We know 2LT Rapone is not Ranger qualified but he can still be assigned an Infantry Platoon. General Norman Schwarzkopf, Gulf War 1991, was an Infantry officer who was not Ranger qualified, and yes, I have seen Infantry Platoon leaders in my time in the U.S. Army who were not Ranger qualified, but that was many years ago. It also depends on when you get sent to Ranger school or if you failed the first time and will try for a second time. 2LT Rapone could be assigned to a specialty Platoon (Mortars, NBC, etc.) or work as a clerk at HQ, S1 or S4. If he does not get an Infantry Platoon assignment, his career as an Infantry officer is over. He will need to branch transfer or go into the Reserves to finish his time in uniform.

    Man, the U.S. Army has sure changed since I was in. Sad letter about West Point, seems like the Honor Code has gone to shit along with everything else. Too much liberalism and Political Correctness. Your experiences on Active Duty seem to be following that trail. That really sucks. Soft soldiers as a result of a soft Basic Training, a soft West Point and even a soft Ranger school. Well we can partly thank women integration for causing a lot of it. We now have women in the Infantry and Ranger school. Sad.

    A Secret clearance is good for 10 years. 2LT Rapone would not have needed a clearance as a Specialist (E-4) when he was with the Ranger Battalion and before his deployment. As I mentioned before, I did a tour with the S2 at Battalion level years ago (I was in Civil Affairs by that time) and was involved with the issue of security clearances and OPM. Soldiers are suppose to notify OPM during their 10 year period with a Secret clearance of any significant changes in their life. It rarely happens. An Intelligence officer with the S2, or actually any unit Commander, can request a background OPM re-investigation (update/cause) on any officer he/she feels a need for. It may take a while. A few years ago OPM had a huge backlog on Secret and Top Secret clearance investigations. 2LT Rapone's clearance could also be downgraded to Confidential. I would not say OPM hands out Secret clearances like candy. Well, maybe today they do, I don't know. But the clearance also plays into being MOS qualified.

    Why would your PL not have to pay anything back to the government? It is like a student loan. "The military hardly ever actually goes after people for their crimes." I don't know if I agree with that. It wasn't like that when I was in. Much like what LTC Heffington's letter talks about, and I'm older than him. Again, times have changed. In my day you were history is you tested positive for drugs on a piss test. Insubordination was an Article 15 offence. I feel sorry for the soldiers (officer/enlisted) who are out there every day giving 100% and having to put up with their 'shit' counterpart. Just my 2 cents...
     
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    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  11. lfd0311 Gold Belt

    lfd0311
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    Yes, people do things like this in war all the time. It's called a diversion. The senior members of the Nazi party knew and had known when they would invade the Soviet Union for two years prior to the day they actually did it. So yes, all of those barges were meaningless. They could not have ferried all of the troops you're claiming they were going to move accross the English Channel in any sort of meaningful manner for an actual invasion, even if they still didn't have to contend with the much larger and stronger English Navy, not to mention the Free French Navy and the other forces in the Atlantic. Again, you're talking nonsense propaganda you've been taught in school. Both English and American history are full of this. Your postion is that Hitler was actually considering moving the bulk of the German military under protection of his much smaller navy into the teeth of at least two numerically superior navies, in relays accross the English channel in river barges of all things in numbers that, had they been able to land without being wiped out at sea, would have been wiped out in detail wherever they attempted to land? That's absurd. Because you understand that these are what he would have been using, right?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera...mshaven,_Prahme_für_"Unternehmen_Seelöwe".jpg

    Or these?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinefährprahm

    They could load one single tank on that bad boy. It's an open topped barge, you think they're just going to gangster roll one single tank across the English Channel and through a massive naval battle in that thing? Come on man, let's use some logic and rational thought here. There was never any real, serious plans undertaken to invade England. They never wanted to conquer or invade England. They wanted to isolate England and convince the English to come to terms with them so they could focus their entire effort on Barbarossa. They were trying to at least create some appearance of an invasion being prepared. Nothing more. Nobody, not the German generals who "planned" it, not Churchill, not even Hitler really thought this was ever anything more than a bluff. Yet it's now taught as something that was really going to happen, yet was prevented by the RAF. It's a nice story, it isn't true. That doesn't make the actual, real story of the blitz on England any less heroic.
     
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  12. sub_thug Red Belt

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    Thankfully, I've never been assigned to Drum, and I likely never will be. Too cold up there for my liking. But my experience with 10th Mountain Soldiers has been pretty positive, overall. I've definitely enjoyed working with them and 25th ID Soldiers more than any other conventional units out there.

    Times have changed. If you don't have your tab, you're done. Or go out to a place like Ft Hood or Ft Bliss in those heavy divisions. You can still get away with being a non-tabbed IN officer over there, but you better have it by the time you take Company Command. If not, you're a joke and won't make it. That's just how it is now. As for the Mortar Platoon or the Scouts, those are actually harder to get than a regular Rifle Platoon. Typically, the two best PL's that aren't selected to become Company XO's become the specialty PL's.

    There are a large chunk of folks in uniform that are what I like to call Oxygen Thieves. That's why I went into an unconventional unit with population control as soon as I could. And now my funny-colored Frenchman's hat means that I won't have to leave. Get what I am saying? Dirtbags of all shapes, sizes, and colors come in expecting things to be handed to them, they're lazy, and they don't have drive. Oh well, just a reflection of society itself, I guess.

    I've never been an S-2, but I've seen some very questionable characters get a Secret clearance. The threshold just doesn't seem to be very high. I don't know what a Ranger needs for clearances in this day and age. The minimum for an SF Soldier is a Secret, and all the 18A, 18Z, 18F, and 18E guys have a TS/SCI. Most of the other guys have at least a TS for one reason or another, but Secret is the minimum. Again, not sure what Rangers need to stay in the 75th.

    When I was in a conventional unit, I saw guys fail PT tests for a year straight while getting retested every damn month, guys get DUIs and stay in the military, guys get retained after popping hot in a piss test for weed, and guys that couldn't qualify on their assigned weapons. And we took those guys to combat. Before I deployed, I had an NCO walk up to my desk and ask me to sign a bunch of weapons qualification cards. I told him that I didn't know that these guys had gone to the range. He told me that they had hand-jammed the cards. Two guys were given passing scores so that the 1SG would get off their backs, and a few more were NCOs trying to make points for a promotion. I was fucking livid. The next morning, I went to the range with each of them personally, and I coached them all myself on shooting. Of the 5 guys I took down there, 3 of them were successful (1/2 passed, 2/3 improved their scores to get enough points to make the promotion cut-off). The other 2 guys needed additional training, and it was conducted by other NCOs at a later time. Of course, all the while, I'm hearing about the importance of haircuts, clean uniforms, doing mock promotion boards, etc. AKA admin bullshit that doesn't win wars or keep you alive when someone is doing everything in their power to kill you. This is a snapshot into what we are dealing with. It's also why I developed a sour taste in my mouth about the regular Army, so I went to do something else. And it was the best decision I ever made in my professional career.
     
    #312
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  13. Phr3121 Purple Belt

    Phr3121
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    Indeed, U.S. Army Special Forces is a whole other Army isn't it? The caliber and quality of soldier is top tier, and you guys get to play with the best weapons and go on special missions. I thought about SF and already spoke two languages other than English. In the end I decided I was happy enough in Civil Affairs and had the chance to travel through a lot of South America. I was born in Brazil but raised in the U.S. Ranger school was enough for me. In 1992 it was longer with the desert phase. I went from Infantry to Civil Affairs, and that turned out to be a 180 degree turn. A whole different MOS. We had females and there was very little distinction when it came to rank. A few SF guys drifted into Civil Affairs after their tour was over. Top notch officers and NCOs which really made the unit stock go way up. I had a chance to work both in the S2 and S3 shop.

    Like I mentioned above, I believe it was around 2005 when OPM had a huge backlog on security clearances. With the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan I believe they were under pressure to get those investigations completed as soon as possible. Like I mentioned, some MOS qualifications are tied to the security clearance, which means if you are not MOS qualified you can't deploy. I think that was about the time that OPM just said 'fuck it', and started approving Secret clearances left and right.

    I don't see the need for lower enlisted with the Ranger Battalion or Infantry units to have a clearance. You would need a security clearance if you need access to classified information to perform your duties. For military personnel, two things determine the level of security clearance required: Your MOS/AFSC/Rating (Job), and your assignment. 38A and 18 series would need at least a Secret clearance to be MOS qualified, both enlisted and officers.

    It will be interesting to see what happens to 2LT Rapone. His NCOs will know his background history and will have no respect for the guy. After playing 'toy soldier' at what used to be a great military institution and having no respect for the rules of the school and faculty, he will be expecting respect from his soldiers. They should not give him any. He will be in a place where his Ranger scroll and CIB won't matter. They will be wearing a Ranger tab and CIB also. He will no longer be special. Just a 'green' Lieutenant who will be despised by all he comes in contact with. Let's see how long he lasts...
     
    #313
  14. sub_thug Red Belt

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    It is and it isn't. It's still the army, so guys can't blow off all the standards and decorum. There are definitely still times where you still play the "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" games. But when it's time to train, it's time to train. All the other BS goes out the window.

    If you think 2005 was bad, you should see it now. OPM is backed up so much after they got hacked by the Chinese that clearances are now taking about 3 times as long as they used to. It's bad. Now, interim clearances are the standard for everything, and they'll issue those without the full investigation, as they've always done. Now, the timeline between issuing an interim clearance and doing the investigation can be measured in years. So that's a significant security gap worth addressing, and everyone knows it.

    Rangers these days are doing some pretty elite stuff. I don't think they are at SF level, but those guys are definitely a legit "Spec Ops" unit. I'm not sure that they were before, but they definitely are now. I can easily see why those guys would need clearances, but I'm not sure that they get them.

    Rapone is fucked. There's no two ways around it. He's going to pay for his decisions one way or another, and there are no options that he's going to like. I guess Communism won't win after all... Hope that Che shirt was worth it, idiot.
     
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  15. Protectandserve Black Belt

    Protectandserve
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    I got my TS/SCI clearance in 2009. I swear the PD did a better background check and interview than the Army. The chick who came to do interviews for my TS/SCI was dumb as a bag of hammers. My FTO's, who she interviewed, told me she asked the dumbest fucking questions. She was shocked they knew personal details about me, my FTO was like "yeah bitch, we rode in car for a few months.."
     
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  16. Phr3121 Purple Belt

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    Oh, but I would want a little 'pay back' for what he did at West Point and the way he treated LTC Heffington. He showed no respect for some officers as a cadet. Scenario: PFC Smith fails to salute 2LT Rapone. 2LT Rapone gets mad at PFC Smith for not saluting him and demands a reason for such disrespect. PFC Smith replies that he is only following the LTs example. 'How does that feel sir?' If I was 2LT Rapone's CO I would definitely tear into the guy. No doubt about it. I wonder how 2LT Rapone is going to act around senior officers at Ft. Drum. Should have picked a different MOS. Now I understand how he made it through 4 years at West Point after reading the LTCs letter. I still don't understand the fact that if he was disillusioned after his tour in Afghanistan why would he want to stay in the U.S. Army, attend West Point, and request to go Infantry.

    Man, I had to prepare myself for Ranger school after IOBC. There was nothing like Pre-Ranger Training that some units have today. It helped that I was already in shape and going through the school with some of the same LTs from IOBC, also the fact that it was during the spring/summer. There were guys that would show up on a bus for the 1st day and fail on push-ups only to be sent back to the bus to go home. I had a friend that went through the Q course and said he literally did everything with that fucking rucksack on his back. It felt like being a 'turtle'.
     
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  17. Phr3121 Purple Belt

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    That's probably due to the OPM backlog. They are probably hiring anyone who is interested in becoming an investigator. Back in my days they were very experienced and very professional. I had two young ladies that were also extremely beautiful. I always enjoyed talking to them about security clearance issues they (OPM) had with soldiers.
     
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  18. sub_thug Red Belt

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    Meh, I don't really care about getting revenge. Rapone sounds nuttier than a bag full of peanuts. I just want to see him out of the military.

    I already had my long tab when I went to Ranger School, and I still had to go through Pre-Ranger. And yeah, we called that ruck the "green tick." It sticks to your back and sucks the life out of you. Rucking is everything through that course. If you can ruck and run, you'll probably meet all the physical requirements, despite the claim that "we only want the best athletes."
     
    #318
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  19. KnightTemplar Sith Belt

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    Except there's not a single reputable professional historian who believes the Operation Sea Lion was designed as a diversion. You're seeing hoofprints and thinking Zebras when you should be looking for Horses.

    Another factor to consider is that the Nazis, while highly skilled(at least at the start of the War)in convnetional military tactics, were far less impressive at the black arts of misinformation, psychological operations etc. Their attempt to use, "canned goods" - concentration camp victims dressed in Polish Army uniforms and dumped on the German side of the border to justify the invasion of Poland - was pathetically inept and fooled no one. The Nazi's efforts at intelligence gathering was also deeply unimpressive. Their attempts to set up networks in the UK was besmirched by MI5/6. The NKVD was so superior to the Abwehr that any intelligence operation the Nazis launched that resulted in losing less than 75% of their agents was considered a success.

    Operation Sea Lion was high risk. But so was the Invasion of France; several of Hilter's most senior generals tried to disuade him from using Blitzkreig tactics, believing the French military was too strong. Hitler was a gambler. He ignored their advice and ordered the invasion.

    There is little doubt that, had the Luftwaffe attained total air superiority, Hitler would have gambled they could have protected his troops against the Royal Navy. But even Hitler wasn't willing to risk such losses without the RAF first being utterly destroyed, which the Luftwaffe failed to accomplish.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  20. silus_2000 Gold Belt

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    It's possible this guy is a genius. West Point grads are required to serve like 6 years after finishing. This could ensure his freedom.
     
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