Academic Education vs Self-learning and Passion in Music!

[Chesten_Hesten]

How many great musicians, singers songwriters has Academia produced as opposed to the (often times) passionate obsessed self-taught one's?

One Example:

This kid seems happy doing her thing, (I wonder if her parents approve or disprove because its not a classical instrument?)



My wife is Chinese and almost all of her Chinese friends with kids force those kids to play piano and violin. (among other shit)

99% of those kids absolutely hate it, but do it. They're academic mechanical automatrons.

One of her Friends has a PHD in Music Composition and teaches music and theory at the University of Houston. She told us that in 25 years she has yet to have one single student come thru who ever made a successful or even marginal career out of music, period. She said she doesn't even consider herself a musician, just an employed teacher.

This is my impression of Public School Music Depts.


I feel Music programs in Public Schools today aren't setup to nurture music or instill passion necessarily, but to facilitate instrument sales for marching bands to accompany the football team.

How much do marching bands pay these days? If you asked to play a bass, they'd tell you no.


Certainly there are other fields this applies too, Music and the Arts seem standout examples, and of course some fields are undoable without Structured School, Math and Phsyics come to mind.

Of the people who successfully make a career out of Music, I can't think of many if any who weren't mostly self-taught and or had a passion for it.

Does it even matter, since those with the passion will find a way and all will sort itself out in the end?

Opinions?

Anyone got any stories of true brilliance from Academia, in Music?

@Overpressure
@Jackonfire
@Oku
@Jesse Pinkman
@Strychnine
@mikehunt
@Cubo de Sangre
@Rimbaud82
@Chad The Limey
@steve38
@mushishi
@Zer
@therealdope
@ShinkanPo
@loyalyolayal

You the unlucky tagged are the only handles I could remember at the moment.

 

[Osculater]

Trent Reznor was in the marching band in high school lol

 

[LATEXXX COMMANDO]

When it comes to learning an instrument, I pretty much agree with Mr. Wooten.

I think this is the video but he says something along the lines of when it comes to learning any instrument you have feel it and have fun. Once you get technical with it and you sit yourself down and practice specific chords(guitarists), learning to read, theories, etc, it becomes a chore. You want to learn an instrument because you love the sound it makes. You want to create your own sound as well as mimic the music of those you enjoy.

Now of course learning music and getting actual academic training doesn't hurt. It definitely helps but that's not what the majority of people that pick up their instrument sign up for. You want to have fun and groove. Take your time and have fun is the best way of learning imo. You can experiment, see what kind of music you like to play, work on unconventional techniques, etc. Music is just like any other form of entertainment, it's about finding your own voice and doing you.

You'd be surprised on how much you can learn on your own and aren't force fed constant information on whatever you're trying to get into.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

You make it as a musician not by sitting in a classroom, but by going out and touring. So join a band and play shows.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

Trent Reznor was in the marching band in high school lol

Wonder was this going through his mind while marching?

 

[ShinkanPo]

How many great musicians, singers songwriters has Academia produced as opposed to the (often times) passionate obsessed self-taught one's?

One Example:

This kid seems happy doing her thing, (I wonder if her parents approve or disprove because its not a classical instrument?)



My wife is Chinese and almost all of her Chinese friends with kids force those kids to play piano and violin. (among other shit)

99% of those kids absolutely hate it, but do it. They're academic mechanical automatrons.

One of her Friends has a PHD in Music Composition and teaches music and theory at the University of Houston. She told us that in 25 years she has yet to have one single student come thru who ever made a successful or even marginal career out of music, period. She said she doesn't even consider herself a musician, just an employed teacher.

This is my impression of Public School Music Depts.


I feel Music programs in Public Schools today aren't setup to nurture music or instill passion necessarily, but to facilitate instrument sales for marching bands to accompany the football team.

How much do marching bands pay these days? If you asked to play a bass, they'd tell you no.


Certainly there are other fields this applies too, Music and the Arts seem standout examples, and of course some fields are undoable without Structured School, Math and Phsyics come to mind.

Of the people who successfully make a career out of Music, I can't think of many if any who weren't mostly self-taught and or had a passion for it.

Does it even matter, since those with the passion will find a way and all will sort itself out in the end?

Opinions?

Anyone got any stories of true brilliance from Academia, in Music?

@Overpressure
@Jackonfire
@Oku
@Jesse Pinkman
@Strychnine
@mikehunt
@Cubo de Sangre
@Rimbaud82
@Chad The Limey
@steve38
@mushishi
@Zer
@therealdope
@ShinkanPo
@loyalyolayal

You the unlucky tagged are the only handles I could remember at the moment.

Music industry in general is dying and it gets tighter how do we define Sucess is it how much money he/she makes or the level of creativity and technical proficiency.


A tallented and hardworking Musician can be like a Mozart without entering the conservstory the skills being taught there can easily be learned outside of school.

Formal lesson does not necessarily you attended a school it could mean you took private lessons from other competent musicians.




However graduating in the Conservatory really makes a difference not only you get the credentials but you will mostlikely have the supperior skill and opens you up to more ideas and access and exposure to other musicians.

Sucess in Music does not necessarily mean you became half of a mozart or you produced thousands of records at the end of the day even at the highest levels Music will remain subjective.


I know a bunch of sucessfull colleagues from our conservatory they were given posts in Russia,Germany etc.


It just depends how you define sucess not every doctor will be like a Dr.Salk who curee Polio but we will not consider leading Physicians today as unsucessful


- Shinkan - Music Education major undergrad emphasis on classical guitar.

 

[BisexualMMA]

You have to have talent and passion, and be serious about music as a career.







Just like with acting.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Wonder was this going through his mind while marching?

If yer gonna post a 'Trent Reznor was in a marching band' song response, I would think it has to be this one:

 

[chrisdiaz]

When it comes to learning an instrument, I pretty much agree with Mr. Wooten.

I think this is the video but he says something along the lines of when it comes to learning any instrument you have feel it and have fun. Once you get technical with it and you sit yourself down and practice specific chords(guitarists), learning to read, theories, etc, it becomes a chore. You want to learn an instrument because you love the sound it makes. You want to create your own sound as well as mimic the music of those you enjoy.

Now of course learning music and getting actual academic training doesn't hurt. It definitely helps but that's not what the majority of people that pick up their instrument sign up for. You want to have fun and groove. Take your time and have fun is the best way of learning imo. You can experiment, see what kind of music you like to play, work on unconventional techniques, etc. Music is just like any other form of entertainment, it's about finding your own voice and doing you.

You'd be surprised on how much you can learn on your own and aren't force fed constant information on whatever you're trying to get into.

I have been a musician for about 12 years. I picked up the guitar about 6 years ago. While I agree you have to have passion, unless your a music savant you wont ever become truly good until you practice those "boring" techniques. If you dont know your scales or basic music theory, you will have a lot of problems playing music with other people. You have to "speak the language" to play music with others. It stops being fun if your guitar or piano skills suck and every song you try to play is difficult because you didnt practice. Im still not very good IMO and I practice 10 hours a week on average.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

When it comes to learning an instrument, I pretty much agree with Mr. Wooten.

I think this is the video but he says something along the lines of when it comes to learning any instrument you have feel it and have fun. Once you get technical with it and you sit yourself down and practice specific chords(guitarists), learning to read, theories, etc, it becomes a chore. You want to learn an instrument because you love the sound it makes. You want to create your own sound as well as mimic the music of those you enjoy.

Now of course learning music and getting actual academic training doesn't hurt. It definitely helps but that's not what the majority of people that pick up their instrument sign up for. You want to have fun and groove. Take your time and have fun is the best way of learning imo. You can experiment, see what kind of music you like to play, work on unconventional techniques, etc. Music is just like any other form of entertainment, it's about finding your own voice and doing you.

You'd be surprised on how much you can learn on your own and aren't force fed constant information on whatever you're trying to get into.

Thanks for posting this. Good stuff.

 

[Peteyandjia]

You have to have talent and passion, and be serious about music as a career.

I see your Milano & Willis musical debacles, and raise you:

Spoiler

a Joe Pesci rap song

 

[Darth_Inv1ctu5]

I get parents pushing their kids a bit - nudging when the kids are lazy about a session or practice, trying different interests, and so on. But forcing them to do something like piano or whatever - those parents should have their kids taken away and they themselves should receive a savage beating. That's child abuse and they go right fuck themselves.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

If yer gonna post a 'Trent Reznor was in a marching band' song response, I would think it has to be this one:

Good point.

We used to have some real babes Shake it to Closer back in the day in the Houston clubs.
@Cool Hand Luke knows what I'm talk'n bout!

 

[21 Savage]

follow my soundcloud plz

 

[LATEXXX COMMANDO]

I have been a musician for about 12 years. I picked up the guitar about 6 years ago. While I agree you have to have passion, unless your a music savant you wont ever become truly good until you practice those "boring" techniques. If you dont know your scales or basic music theory, you will have a lot of problems playing music with other people. You have to "speak the language" to play music with others. It stops being fun if your guitar or piano skills suck and every song you try to play is difficult because you didnt practice. Im still not very good IMO and I practice 10 hours a week on average.

That's why I said it absolutely helps to actually learn how to read music, etc. There is no negative impact on learning music, it can only help.

 

[loyalyolayal]

Music industry in general is dying and it gets tighter how do we define Sucess is it how much money he/she makes or the level of creativity and technical proficiency.


A tallented and hardworking Musician can be like a Mozart without entering the conservstory the skills being taught there can easily be learned outside of school.

Formal lesson does not necessarily you attended a school it could mean you took private lessons from other competent musicians.




However graduating in the Conservatory really makes a difference not only you get the credentials but you will mostlikely have the supperior skill and opens you up to more ideas and access and exposure to other musicians.

Sucess in Music does not necessarily mean you became half of a mozart or you produced thousands of records at the end of the day even at the highest levels Music will remain subjective.


I know a bunch of sucessfull colleagues from our conservatory they were given posts in Russia,Germany etc.


It just depends how you define sucess not every doctor will be like a Dr.Salk who curee Polio but we will not consider leading Physicians today as unsucessful


- Shinkan - Music Education major undergrad emphasis on classical guitar.

Traditional music industry is dead. The cult of the amateur has taken over. Artists can create and release albums by themselves. Or release their own renditions on social media.

 

[loyalyolayal]

I have been a musician for about 12 years. I picked up the guitar about 6 years ago. While I agree you have to have passion, unless your a music savant you wont ever become truly good until you practice those "boring" techniques. If you dont know your scales or basic music theory, you will have a lot of problems playing music with other people. You have to "speak the language" to play music with others. It stops being fun if your guitar or piano skills suck and every song you try to play is difficult because you didnt practice. Im still not very good IMO and I practice 10 hours a week on average.

If I apply the same view with visual arts, people would call me a snob.

 

[dc007]

Music school doesn't make you a good writer or a passionate player but you could work with artists that bring the passion and creativity and play your role.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Well.
A rather general answer is, a whole fucking lot, in many countries around the world. Most don't go to a formal school but are self taught with maybe a tutor to guide them.

I learned both saxophone and guitar mostly on my own but there are definitely techniques I heard other players use that I'd've never figured out on my own.

You go to YouTube, and you can hear a ton of technically great players. A lot of them have shitty tone and have bad taste in playing choices, but they're great, depending on how you define the word.

 

[chrisdiaz]

If I apply the same view with visual arts, people would call me a snob.

Not sure if this is a insult or not. What I was getting at is you can dabble around for a long time and make some ok music but its not until you truly train yourself that I would consider someone a skilled musician. If someone tells you they are playing in Gmin7 but you have no idea what that means, your not going to be on the same page and play well together.