Adapting grappling for a one on one fight with no weapons/rules

For example, the guard was easily countered by punching the bottom guy in the balls several times. If you slipped a jab, you didn't hit the other guy in the body or face, you punched or grabbed his balls. Everything changed when basically nothing was banned. They expected Pankration to be a kind of watered-down MMA, but it turned out that Pankration was a much more brutal sport where anyone using a modern approach was basically completely lost. It was completely incompatible with modern ideas of combat sports.

If it's so easy to groin strike try stepping in a ring with a high level Nak Muay, without a cup and with groin strikes allowed.

Even if he spent his whole life not kicking people in the groin, he's going to be much better at kicking the groin than you will be.
 
Some of this back and forth reminds me of this video
 
Stay off your back. We teach clinch, takedown, mount. Untrained people will usually turn over to get up so you take their back and choke them out.
 
Okay, since for some reason, people make this about me and how I dare to quote other people who actually tried this out, I'm outta here. Such discussions lead to nothing and I generally avoid arguing with internet warriors who repeat their "arguments" over and over and can't allow other opinions.

Just this: The pic I posted obviously shows Pankratiasts, since they don't wear gloves and don't attack the head, no matter how archaeologists named it (no surprise here sicne the rule set of ancient Greek boxing is still pretty much unknown - we don't even know if kicks were allowed).

Also, if I ever step back onto mats again, I'll try it out for myself, ie. attacking the balls while guard fighting. Which may admittedly be never (I'm old and have enough injuries for two or three guys), but I'll make an update if it happens. Maybe you guys are wrong, maybe the German guys are wrong, we'll see.
 
Okay, since for some reason, people make this about me and how I dare to quote other people who actually tried this out, I'm outta here. Such discussions lead to nothing and I generally avoid arguing with internet warriors who repeat their "arguments" over and over and can't allow other opinions.

Just this: The pic I posted obviously shows Pankratiasts, since they don't wear gloves and don't attack the head, no matter how archaeologists named it (no surprise here sicne the rule set of ancient Greek boxing is still pretty much unknown - we don't even know if kicks were allowed).

Also, if I ever step back onto mats again, I'll try it out for myself, ie. attacking the balls while guard fighting. Which may admittedly be never (I'm old and have enough injuries for two or three guys), but I'll make an update if it happens. Maybe you guys are wrong, maybe the German guys are wrong, we'll see.

It doesn’t take much to do that... just walk to a bjj gym, ask any blue belt above you want to make an experiment and try if the guard works or not, you can actually start a go fund me thing to disprove grappling arts, you’ll get some money, just let the guy on guard know that you are going to play dirty as soon as you can, report back,..(never mind I just post a vid about a guy trying to eye gouge some other dude in a fight) make sure you get it on film... if I was in the us I would happibly be part if your experiment, even put some money down, but I live in Paraguay...

Ps: you don’t need to start training, this is supposed to be the guard not working on steers fights, not Mma, all you have to do is kneel and get in someone’s guard and try to grab some balls, no neeed to go CrossFit for a couple of months or Anything in. Order to do that ...
 
Just remember ur opponent is a white belt and fck em up. If ur bjj is worth anything u should smash em. Empty ur mind and go to work.
 
Okay, since for some reason, people make this about me and how I dare to quote other people who actually tried this out, I'm outta here. Such discussions lead to nothing and I generally avoid arguing with internet warriors who repeat their "arguments" over and over and can't allow other opinions.

Just this: The pic I posted obviously shows Pankratiasts, since they don't wear gloves and don't attack the head, no matter how archaeologists named it (no surprise here sicne the rule set of ancient Greek boxing is still pretty much unknown - we don't even know if kicks were allowed).

Also, if I ever step back onto mats again, I'll try it out for myself, ie. attacking the balls while guard fighting. Which may admittedly be never (I'm old and have enough injuries for two or three guys), but I'll make an update if it happens. Maybe you guys are wrong, maybe the German guys are wrong, we'll see.

you came here asking questions, but are not liking the answers you are getting, because they don't mesh with what you were hoping to hear...so are you really interested in discovering the truth or are you just looking for validation of your preconceived notions?

just watch Draculino's video in it's entirety (since you clearly did not). if it does not prove more compelling than some simplistic 'nut shot' theory of countering the battle-tested guard, then there is probably no swaying you. good luck with your beliefs.
 
If you do judo, I think you would know that grabbing someone’s balls in close guard is not very realistic, bullshido my ass.

You weren’t there, but for some reason you took a strong stance on “guard doesn’t work cause 2 guys I have no idea who they are could hit each other’s balls”

Actually the bullshido side of things are death touch and sd systems based on dirty ninja crap...

I dont think he is talking about bullshido or selfdefense bs but more about the fact that in a street fight you got to adapt, which we all know.
Plus, i can add that you got different style of street fights: 1 vs 1 and hooligan firms street fights are different stories for an example.
From a strictly technical point of view (no moral crap involved), the debate is interesting.
My take on this is to avoid grappling on the streets in most of the case...and i took my first judo class in 86.
Keep moving, use your fists, hit weak parts...thats the keys imo
 
Okay, since for some reason, people make this about me and how I dare to quote other people who actually tried this out, I'm outta here. Such discussions lead to nothing and I generally avoid arguing with internet warriors who repeat their "arguments" over and over and can't allow other opinions.

You can read lots of things on the internet somewhere. I read somewhere that the earth is flat. We live in a time where anybody can say pretty much anything, it seems; what a wild time to be alive!

It would be strange, though, to go onto a site dedicated to discussing, for example, astronomical issues and saying, "Hey guys, your round earth calculations work great in the classroom, but I read on another forum that the earth is flat. It changes the game of REAL astronomy." Then on every response, questioning this, responding, "Jeez! What the hell guys? I just read it somewhere else, get off my back you round earth warriors." Then when people try to explain why I (and anyone else reading the exchange) should apply critical thinking to the explanation I read, reply, "Ok well I'm done here since I'm not allowed to have an opinion!" Meanwhile, the heck of it is I haven't actually explained or contributed anything to the discussion other than hearsay, nor why I believe my opinion to be founded in reality. In fact, it would sound like I believe anything I read online almost! Either that, or I read something that confirmed my current belief system, and took it to heart.

It would be pretty strange, wouldn't you agree?

Just this: The pic I posted obviously shows Pankratiasts, since they don't wear gloves and don't attack the head, no matter how archaeologists named it (no surprise here sicne the rule set of ancient Greek boxing is still pretty much unknown - we don't even know if kicks were allowed).

I would disagree that it "obviously" shows pankration. If it were obvious, experts in the field of archaeology would have named it differently, for instance.

While there are things we don't know, there are other things we do know, via pictures and other historical accounts, or works of fiction referencing the sport. I don't really see the connection between the picture you posted being boxing or pankration and what we know about the rules of boxing having anything to do with each other. It kind of seems like you googled for an image of a groin shot, picked one, and then it turned out to be boxing, of which historical sources do indicate groin shots were not permitted; but I don't want to assume. You may have read somewhere else that this was a picture of pankration, for instance.

Also, if I ever step back onto mats again, I'll try it out for myself, ie. attacking the balls while guard fighting. Which may admittedly be never (I'm old and have enough injuries for two or three guys), but I'll make an update if it happens. Maybe you guys are wrong, maybe the German guys are wrong, we'll see.

I'm sorry to hear that you no longer train! I wish you success in recovering from your injuries. If you can, please video tape the experiment. I think it would be helpful in the constant pursuit for truth that we all, as martial artists, share.
 
I agree with the others that specifically targeting the sac is not a good strategy. Sure if a groin strike is open then yes, there's a good chance it will incapacitate your opponent, but spamming ball shots is an great way to leave yourself open to be countered.

Go spar some boxing and spam body shots and see what happens.
 
I read some posts on a German martial arts forum about some grapplers (MMA and HEMA) who tried to play around with Pankration (ie. only eye gouges and biting are banned). Meaning: They tried to recreate the style unprofessionally by looking at statues, vases and old books and using their own expertise and skills to fill in the gaps.
In the end, they pretty quickly realized that many modern grappling/MMA approaches are pretty useless in such an environment.

For example, the guard was easily countered by punching the bottom guy in the balls several times. If you slipped a jab, you didn't hit the other guy in the body or face, you punched or grabbed his balls. Everything changed when basically nothing was banned. They expected Pankration to be a kind of watered-down MMA, but it turned out that Pankration was a much more brutal sport where anyone using a modern approach was basically completely lost. It was completely incompatible with modern ideas of combat sports.

Moral of the story: You have to change your mind set completely when there are no rules.

When you allow attacks to the groin that changes things dramatically. If you think it doesn’t you’re a fool..

I remember Robin Black once discussed on a JRE episode that hypothetically, in the far future if medical technology ever advances to a point where we can regenerate body parts overnight, we should have zero rules in MMA. He said that groin strikes, biting, eye gouges should all be allowed. I couldn’t help but think that if you allow all that then inevitably the sport would become 90% all about nutshot TKOs and bite/eye gouge submissions. Nothing incapacitates more quickly and efficiently than those things. It’s evident today, even the mildest glancing blows to the groin or touching of the eye is debilitating
 
When you allow attacks to the groin that changes things dramatically. If you think it doesn’t you’re a fool..

I remember Robin Black once discussed on a JRE episode that hypothetically, in the far future if medical technology ever advances to a point where we can regenerate body parts overnight, we should have zero rules in MMA. He said that groin strikes, biting, eye gouges should all be allowed. I couldn’t help but think that if you allow all that then inevitably the sport would become 90% all about nutshot TKOs and bite/eye gouge submissions. Nothing incapacitates more quickly and efficiently than those things. It’s evident today, even the mildest glancing blows to the groin or touching of the eye is debilitating

I actually think that if you think you can strike the groin in someone’s guard, you either never grapple or did with a white belt in zombie mode
 


Here is a 2 division UFC champ being submitted by a midget who knows "Monkey Grabs Peach".
 
I would like feedback from experienced grapplers.

Hypothetical situation: you get into a fight with one person on a hard surface, concrete for example. You can't talk them out of it or run away. There's no one else around to interfere and there's nothing available to be used as a weapon.

To me, it would be advisable to avoid guard or being on your back period. I know some of you guys are really great at sweeps but I feel like in this particular scenario, wrestling for top control would be more effective and safe.

I've never understood people jumping guard while standing. It seems like a bad habit to get into which could get you slammed if you're not protected by rules that don't allow it.

Is wrestling style top control more effective in this situation than getting into guard on the back?

I get what you're trying to say. I agree. I try to avoid bottom as much as possible. My guard is good but it's mostly good for sweeps. I'm not a big sub off my back kind of guy. But in a street altercation that I'm looking to diffuse, I'm going 1-2-body lock-lateral drop- mount. If I'm trying to hurt the guy I'm grabbing the thai plumb and throwing a head butt to the nose.
 
I read some posts on a German martial arts forum about some grapplers (MMA and HEMA) who tried to play around with Pankration (ie. only eye gouges and biting are banned). Meaning: They tried to recreate the style unprofessionally by looking at statues, vases and old books and using their own expertise and skills to fill in the gaps.
In the end, they pretty quickly realized that many modern grappling/MMA approaches are pretty useless in such an environment.

For example, the guard was easily countered by punching the bottom guy in the balls several times. If you slipped a jab, you didn't hit the other guy in the body or face, you punched or grabbed his balls. Everything changed when basically nothing was banned. They expected Pankration to be a kind of watered-down MMA, but it turned out that Pankration was a much more brutal sport where anyone using a modern approach was basically completely lost. It was completely incompatible with modern ideas of combat sports.

Moral of the story: You have to change your mind set completely when there are no rules.

Link?

I'm skeptical. I mean, was pankration basically professional ball grabbing? LMAO. Also, I can't imagine too many situations that a guy could grab my balls. But I mean, if you're cool with grabbing balls, then by all means. Nothing a good throat punch or ear drum pop can't diffuse. Ball grabbing is not the end all. Groin strikes are more effective. And even then it's not fool proof. But yeah, I have a hard time believing that the element of ball grabbing made THAT much of a difference.
 
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