Adapting TKD to MMA

Groucho said:
Sorry...I'm a huge fan of the US Army and Marine Corp...definitely some of the most togther indiviuals I trained with when I was in (various joint US/Canada exercises)

Likewise, I've always had respect for the professionalism of Canadians (at least the ones I've worked with) BUT....

There were other countries involved in this, don't believe every movie Hollywood puts out...in fact we carried half the load that you guys did on DDay, with a tenth of your population

The American order of battle for the Normandy invasion included three infantry divisions, two Airborne divisions and a couple Ranger battalions. The Canadian order of battle included an infantry division and an armored brigade.

Not discount any of the participant's contributions and acknowledging that Juno beach was also heavily defended, Omaha beach (one of the two US landing sites) was the seen as the beachhead that would be most difficult to secure. There was a reason why there were two full divisions there instead of one plus armor like everywhere else. The Canadians also didn't have to deal with the nightmare scenario of having to scale 100-foot cliffs while under enemy fire at Point-du-Hoc.

Elsewhere in Europe, there were roughly six or seven times as many Americans fighting or having just finished fighting their way up the Italian peninsula.

Of course, this is all moot when you want to talk about raw number comparisons and sheer scale of fighting because if you want to think of it that way, the people who really defeated the Germans were the Soviets.


uh, that would be Athens...couple thousand years before the US...
Modern democracy/republicanism as we think about it today? Don't think so.
 
philong said:
(even though the US is a Republic)

No, the US is not a republic. That's a common misconception. Republics don't allow for a bi-cameral legislature nor an executive branch. The US is a representative democracy.
 
Bigsaltyballs said:
No, the US is not a republic. That's a common misconception. Republics don't allow for a bi-cameral legislature nor an executive branch. The US is a representative democracy.
"I pledge alegience to the flag and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands.......":rolleyes:
Yes the US is a Republic. This is why I originally said a Democracy because there is ALWAYS someone who wants to try and argue the point. Usually it is the guy who posts the link to Wikipedia which states that the US is a Democratic Republic as proof that the US is a Democracy.
 
Doughbelly said:
... The Canadian order of battle included an infantry division and an armored brigade...

...and an airborne brigade...from Wikipedia:
After Omaha Beach, Juno was the second most heavily defended of the five landing sites chosen. General Richter was in charge of the 716th Division guarding the beach, with 11 heavy batteries of 155 mm guns and 9 medium batteries of 75 mm guns at his disposal. Additionally, pillboxes and other fortifications were present all along the beach, most heavily concentrated in the Courseulles-sur-mer region. The seawall was twice the height of Omaha Beach's, and the ocean was heavily mined.​

not to start a p*ssing contest...


Doughbelly said:
Modern democracy/republicanism as we think about it today? Don't think so.
There are those who will tell you that Athens was the only true democracy to ever exist as it was the last place that having all citizens compelled to participate in government (actually attend, debate, vote...) was practicable...

and yes, I meant modern democracy/republicanism, which is why your Founders drew so heavily on the examples of Athens and Rome...as well as, interestingly enough, the Iroquois Confederacy
 
philong said:
... "You guys" should have been carrying a large load, it was YOUR countries that were being defended.

Yeah, Canada being adjacent to the US...
philong said:
South Korea would not exist without the direct involvement of US troops. I fail to see any "point" you are trying to make with your alluding to Chosin Resevoir??? ...

Your tone of "it was all us" happens to completely disrespect the fact that a Canadian unit, fighting a rear guard action with an Australian unit to cover the withdrawal of American troops from Chosin, was involved in fighting so heavy that, in order to prevent a Chinese breakthrough, called artillery fire onto their own position rather than just pull back and give some ground.

The "point"? You weren't alone and if it weren't for those "useless" UN supernumeraries refusing to pull out, so committed to holding their line they had themselves shelled to push the Communists back, the US withdrawal from Chosin would have turned into a complete massacre

[edited for spelling]
 
Groucho said:
...and an airborne brigade...from Wikipedia:
After Omaha Beach, Juno was the second most heavily defended of the five landing sites chosen. General Richter was in charge of the 716th Division guarding the beach, with 11 heavy batteries of 155 mm guns and 9 medium batteries of 75 mm guns at his disposal. Additionally, pillboxes and other fortifications were present all along the beach, most heavily concentrated in the Courseulles-sur-mer region. The seawall was twice the height of Omaha Beach's, and the ocean was heavily mined.​

not to start a p*ssing contest...

Well then don't. I've contributed to some of those D-Day and Battle of Normandy Wikipedia articles. =)

And if by "brigade" you meant "battalion," okay. Wasn't aware of of a Canadian Airborne presence and had to look it up.

You don't HAVE to be deliberately obtuse, the first point being that Canadians didn't carry half the American load of D-Day and the second point (overriding the first) being that it's asinine to measure military contributions in that manner. Hence, the mention of the Soviets.
 
Doughbelly said:
Well then don't. I've contributed to some of those D-Day and Battle of Normandy Wikipedia articles. =)

And if by "brigade" you meant "battalion," okay. Wasn't aware of of a Canadian Airborne presence and had to look it up.

You don't HAVE to be deliberately obtuse, the first point being that Canadians didn't carry half the American load of D-Day and the second point (overriding the first) being that it's asinine to measure military contributions in that manner. Hence, the mention of the Soviets.

Easy now...the p*ssing contest remark was well intended, as in: "yeah, I know Omaha was a bitch, but so was Juno...let's go way back and bash the retard that flamed your brave men under arms..."

The airborne point is likely due to the fact that my uncle dropped at Normandy, and the airborne club he belongs to contains some of the coolest men I've ever met ( I generally head in to their club room and buy them a round on June 6th...)...just touchy, I guess...

As for being deliberately obtuse, the original response to philong, who likely had his back up over a really ignorant comment, was along the lines of "it wasn't just the US that defeated Hitler"...that's all. My point was with one-tenth the population, we mounted the assault on the second most heavily defended beach. The message was: others did some heavy fighting and, as your forces on Omaha did, punched way above their weight. A point you either missed or ignored.

That obtuse label cuts both ways. (unless you meant "exceeding 90 degrees", or perhaps "rounded at the free end"...)

Now, please can we actually get back to having this wastelanded?
 
Groucho said:
Sorry...I'm a huge fan of the US Army and Marine Corp...definitely some of the most togther indiviuals I trained with when I was in (various joint US/Canada exercises)

BUT:



There were other countries involved in this, don't believe every movie Hollywood puts out...in fact we carried half the load that you guys did on DDay, with a tenth of your population



You weren't alone there either...
check Wikipedia regarding the PPCLI covering the withdrawal of the US contingent from Chosan...


uh, that would be Athens...couple thousand years before the US...​
and the rest I actually agree with emphatically...


hmm..we arent withdrawing from korea.. im glad you got those facts from wikipedia you know the encyclopedia that anyone can update... its okay though.. who is "we" when you talk about carrying the load? how can you claim we when you weren't there? and its not Chosan anymore its Hanguk or Korea.. S korea is Dae Han Min Guk...
 
Groucho said:
Yeah, Canada being adjacent to the US...


Your tone of "it was all us" happens to completely disrespect the fact that a Canadian unit, fighting a rear guard action with an Australian unit to cover the withdrawal of American troops from Chosin, was involved in fighting so heavy that, in order to prevent a Chinese breakthrough, called artillery fire onto their own position rather than just pull back and give some ground.

The "point"? You weren't alone and if it weren't for those "useless" UN supernumeraries refusing to pull out, so committed to holding their line they had themselves shelled to push the Communists back, the US withdrawal from Chosin would have turned into a complete massacre

[edited for spelling]

well the only UNCMAC people i see up here are the US, the Swiss and the Swedes.. the polish come every six months... but other than that i dont see very many canadians in the JSA.. Without the us and General McArthur the UNC could not have conducted the Incheon Landing to push the KPA forces back.. im not saying it was all the US but a large part of it was because of the US... and stop calling Korea, Chosun..
 
Evil Eye Gouger said:
What, you accepted his challenge and he pussied out?


yes exactly.. he hasnt replied at all to my last PM.. hes going to be here till the 15th.. but he hasnt contacted me since.. he has proved how much of a keyboard warrior he really was...
 
Groucho said:
Yeah, Canada being adjacent to the US...


Your tone of "it was all us" happens to completely disrespect the fact that a Canadian unit, fighting a rear guard action with an Australian unit to cover the withdrawal of American troops from Chosin, was involved in fighting so heavy that, in order to prevent a Chinese breakthrough, called artillery fire onto their own position rather than just pull back and give some ground.

The "point"? You weren't alone and if it weren't for those "useless" UN supernumeraries refusing to pull out, so committed to holding their line they had themselves shelled to push the Communists back, the US withdrawal from Chosin would have turned into a complete massacre

[edited for spelling]
As to you being from canada, that is not relevant. You said WE CARRIED half........ insinuating that you were European. Don't get your panties in a was because of your inability to carry on a concise diatribe. try using proper English and make clear concise points if you desire to be comprehended.
You seem to have a reading comprehension problem as well. Nowhere did I state "it was all us". You appear to be trying to lump several different topics into the same arguement, this is typical of internet trolls. You started out with DDay and are trying to lump Korea into it, here's a hint- they were seperate actions in different decades. Your "point" about Chosin Resevoir is nothing more than nonsensical rambling and babbling. Ehat does it have to do with the massive contribution of US Forces? After all that WAS the topic that I stated.
Again- All of you should damn well be thanking the US Army (or more correctly the US Armed Forces) for our sacrifices to the world (you know WW1, WW2, Korea, Cold War, Bosni, etc.- most of which didn't concern the US to begin with but we were happy to help only to be lambasted by ungrateful wannabes on the internet). Also note that nowhere did I insinuate that anyone elses military was any less worthy of thanks. If you and the other wannbes want to lambast the US military you need to study history and see what they have done for the residents of the world.
 
krnguy03 said:
well the only UNCMAC people i see up here are the US, the Swiss and the Swedes.. the polish come every six months... but other than that i dont see very many canadians in the JSA.. Without the us and General McArthur the UNC could not have conducted the Incheon Landing to push the KPA forces back.. im not saying it was all the US but a large part of it was because of the US... and stop calling Korea, Chosun..

Groucho's not talking about Choson in a historical, notional nation or DPRK sense.

He's referring to the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, a very significant battle of the Korean war (6-25 Junjaeng since we all seem to be playing the pedantic language game). The breakout and fighting retreat is a big part of USMC lore and history.

In Korea, Chosin would be known as Changjin - the Cho-sin is the Japanese pronunciation for the hanja.
 
philong said:
As to you being from canada, that is not relevant. You said WE CARRIED half........ insinuating that you were European. Don't get your panties in a was because of your inability to carry on a concise diatribe. try using proper English and make clear concise points if you desire to be comprehended.

This is definitely a wasteland thread now. But I'm a little bored so I'll throw some more gasoline on the fire.

I understood from Groucho's post (to which I replied) that he was Canadian.

Personally, I don't see any "insinuating." If there was anything, there would have been some "implicating" but i don't see that, either.

Dough-"Instigator"-Belly

:icon_chee
 
Please go on, guys, this thread is actually (slightly) better than it was before.
 
Groucho said:
Easy now...the p*ssing contest remark was well intended, as in: "yeah, I know Omaha was a bitch, but so was Juno...let's go way back and bash the retard that flamed your brave men under arms..."

The airborne point is likely due to the fact that my uncle dropped at Normandy, and the airborne club he belongs to contains some of the coolest men I've ever met ( I generally head in to their club room and buy them a round on June 6th...)...just touchy, I guess...

As for being deliberately obtuse, the original response to philong, who likely had his back up over a really ignorant comment, was along the lines of "it wasn't just the US that defeated Hitler"...that's all. My point was with one-tenth the population, we mounted the assault on the second most heavily defended beach. The message was: others did some heavy fighting and, as your forces on Omaha did, punched way above their weight. A point you either missed or ignored.

That obtuse label cuts both ways. (unless you meant "exceeding 90 degrees", or perhaps "rounded at the free end"...)

Now, please can we actually get back to having this wastelanded?

I neither missed nor ignored your point. From my first post in response to yours:

... Not discount any of the participant's contributions and acknowledging that Juno beach was also heavily defended ...

For what it's worth, I have a tertiary point, which is that I wasn't the one who started picking nits first.

And yes, I meant deliberately wide angle.

And just so I'm not misunderstood, here's the big smiley: :icon_chee
 
I am not knocking TKD, I know some buys that are bad ass TKD stylists, for MMA though try some MT, you have to square up more or you are going to get clinchslammed or leg kicked hard. You have to be square against your opp. or you will die. Good luck though and if you make it work please post some photos.
 
Doughbelly said:
And just so I'm not misunderstood, here's the big smiley: :icon_chee

First off, big smiley back 'atcha :icon_chee

Second, it was Monday, there was ice and snow on the roads in the morning, meaning half the people driving in this city had a complete mental collapse, 'cuz: snow/ice?? in March?? In Canada??...big smiley was absent from my morning/tone

Now, to business:
philong, bud, I was actually agreeing with the bulk of your post, really...I just inferred from your tone (which I later admitted was most likely due to kyun's nonsense...), that you were one of those who happen to believe that all the major conflicts of the last century fell squarely upon the US's shoulders to win. Which is simply not the case, although god alone knows where things would've ended up had you guys not been there (eventually...:wink: ..I kid...).

Picked two random instances that came to mind quickly, and which I was sure of. That's all. And not everybody on this board runs to Wiki for back up; I want to know about D-Day, I ask my uncle, the Battle of Kapyong (now, I believe, Gaepyong...I'm sure Krnguy03 will tell me...) I talk to my father.

Doughbelly, that's 5 minutes for instigating:icon_chee

You three (I'm lumping Krnguy03 in here) seem to want to think I'm dissing the brave efforts of your past forces; not the case. Sticking a pin in someone's apparently over-inflated perception of history? Guilty.
 
Back
Top