American Kenpo - Is it really any good for self-defense?

^^^ I think you're overstating things when you say they teach "totally different styles." I mean, I haven't studied Kenpo directly, but just in the last few days I've watched vids of Tatum demonstrating techniques and Speakman doing his Kenpo 5.0 stuff, and it looks generally the same to me (minus the ground fighting techs that Speakman has added).

For instance, the routines in this vid. . .






Strike me about the same as the stuff here:










None of that stuff will work ever. Period. Unless the dude is letting you. Rather sad tbh.
 
Well the last part is not serious and you know it. Karate guys DO have a wider stance than others, fist at hip has nothing to do with stance and you know exactly what hikite and kime is about. At least I hope you do.

Yes, but that doesn't really address what I said. You are saying that certain principles from kata are utilized in actual fighting. I'll agree with that, of course. But you said, "train how you fight, right?"

Karate guys may use a wider stance, but they don't actually use a textbook front stance and I'm sure I've never seen a cat stance used in fighting in my life. And for damn sure not a horse stance.

And they don't keep their hand at their hip. And they don't utilize traditional blocks, like the high block. And they don't punch and then leave their arm out there. So there are things that karate guys do in training that that they don't do when they're fighting.

My point to all of this is just to say to be fair to other arts in the same way that you are fair to karate.
 
As I may have mentioned before, I do not believe there is a best style when it comes to traditional martial arts, it is more the individual than it is their style. A talented martial artist with the physical gifts necessary to utilize their tools in a skilled manner will find success in my opinion and experience. It is more so about the individual athlete and their skill set overall than the style they offer.

I do believe that one must believe in their style, to find any sort of effectiveness. Your mind set has to be that your Kempo, Gung Fu, Tae Kwon Do, whatever is going to work for you. You can not half believe, you must utilize your training properly, how you were taught and be prepared to be dynamic when necessary.

So if your style dictates a lower, wider stance than other people, utilize what you have been trained to do instead of second guessing yourself and attempting to modify shit before you even have a chance to see if it works or not.

I personally do not believe in Kempo, to the extent I have no desire to learn it, and its a readily available style in my area with no shortage of schools. But Ive seen enough to know I would never believe in its effectiveness so there is little reason for me to even show up to be honest with you. I have trained with a variety of different experts in a number of styles, so ive been exposed to a number of ideas throughout my short time on this earth and know I must look for the path where I find truth, and this is what I recommend for others as well.


Excellent post. And I agree with everything.

I like the bit about really BELIEVING in your style's techniques. I often think to myself that even a lot of styles that are often thought of as ineffective could be effective in the hands of someone who has put hours and hours and hours of training into, rather than just two nights a week for an hour at a time.
 
If Wonderboy's opponents have all been compliant it will be one of the bigger scandals in the early history of MMA.

Yeah, but come on, what he's doing out there isn't really kenpo. It's pretty straight-forward, old school, karate/TKD based kickboxing.
 
None of that stuff will work ever. Period. Unless the dude is letting you. Rather sad tbh.

So basically what you're saying is that the guy in the video (Larry Tatum) is no more prepared now for a self-defense situation than he was before he had ever heard of kenpo and would be unable to defend himself on the street. . .

Gotcha.
 
Excellent post. And I agree with everything.

I like the bit about really BELIEVING in your style's techniques. I often think to myself that even a lot of styles that are often thought of as ineffective could be effective in the hands of someone who has put hours and hours and hours of training into, rather than just two nights a week for an hour at a time.

I like how you didn't just double post you triple posted. Anyway if you spent that much time on training it is no longer for self defense whether something that dictates your entire life. Anyone truly serious about their own self defense will carry pepper spray,taser,firearm etc and learn to use it.
 
I like how you didn't just double post you triple posted.

Do you even know what a double post is?

Anyone truly serious about their own self defense will carry pepper spray,taser,firearm etc and learn to use it.

I believe in firearm ownership, so I agree with you. Although it's worth noting that there are some places where you can't carry weapons.
 
Do you even know what a double post is?



I believe in firearm ownership, so I agree with you. Although it's worth noting that there are some places where you can't carry weapons.

There are zero states in the U.S.A where you can't carry a weapon.

And yes I do know what a double post is, and you quadruple posted. Heres a lil urban dictionary for ya

1) When someone posts the exact same thing twice in a row.

2) When someone posts something then, rather than using the "edit" button, posts an elaboration or similar right after the 1st.

3) Simply two posts by the same member, regardless of reason, after each other.
 
There are zero states in the U.S.A where you can't carry a weapon.

Yeah, but you usually can't carry a weapon into a stadium or bars or concerts etc, i.e. places where alcohol is involved and fights tend to break out.


And yes I do know what a double post is, and you quadruple posted. Heres a lil urban dictionary for ya

Two things. . .

1. I respond to every person individually to avoid confusion.

2. I'll do what the fuck I want.
 
Yeah, but you usually can't carry a weapon into a stadium or bars or concerts etc, i.e. places where alcohol is involved and fights tend to break out.




Two things. . .

1. I respond to every person individually to avoid confusion.

2. I'll do what the fuck I want.

You sound like a cool kid saying you'll do whatever you want over the internet. Obviously you'll do what you please because you are unaccountable for your actions under the guise of anonymity.

Also you definitely can take weapons to all of those places you mentioned. Furthermore if you're worried about being attacked by a drunk dude, how do you expect to defend yourself against a sober attacker who isn't belligerent? If you yourself are also inebriated you obviously don't care that much about your own well being.

Care to continue?
 
You sound like a cool kid saying you'll do whatever you want over the internet. Obviously you'll do what you please because you are unaccountable for your actions under the guise of anonymity.

I'm very cool.

Also you definitely can take weapons to all of those places you mentioned.

Yeah, I guess that's why they do all those pat downs just to get into a fucking basketball game and why it's a felony (in most states, if not every state) to drink in a bar while carrying a gun.


Furthermore if you're worried about being attacked by a drunk dude, how do you expect to defend yourself against a sober attacker who isn't belligerent? If you yourself are also inebriated you obviously don't care that much about your own well being.

Right, because anyone who drinks alcohol doesn't care about their own well being. Okay, Mormon.


Care to continue?

Not really. I have other shit to do today.
 
I'm very cool.



Yeah, I guess that's why they do all those pat downs just to get into a fucking basketball game and why it's a felony (in most states, if not every state) to drink in a bar while carrying a gun.




Right, because anyone who drinks alcohol doesn't care about their own well being. Okay, Mormon.




Not really. I have other shit to do today.

Sigh. You obviously have a rather low reading comprehension ability. Ill spell it out for you. Stadiums, bars, concerts, w/e don't do full body pat downs. Its rather easy to get some sort of weapon in.

If you are drinking you can't possibly hope to remember the "deceptive panter" technique and even if you did you don't have the motor function to perform it properly.

I'm all for drinking/drugs whatever is your thing, but if you are serious about your ability to intelligently defend yourself, you won't be drinking while in a potentially dangerous situation.

I don't have shit to do. I could do this all day. The only obligations I ever have are training and fighting.
 
Yes, but that doesn't really address what I said. You are saying that certain principles from kata are utilized in actual fighting. I'll agree with that, of course. But you said, "train how you fight, right?"

Karate guys may use a wider stance, but they don't actually use a textbook front stance and I'm sure I've never seen a cat stance used in fighting in my life. And for damn sure not a horse stance.

And they don't keep their hand at their hip. And they don't utilize traditional blocks, like the high block. And they don't punch and then leave their arm out there. So there are things that karate guys do in training that that they don't do when they're fighting.

My point to all of this is just to say to be fair to other arts in the same way that you are fair to karate.

Point taken. Fair game.

It's true, there are things that Karate guys do in training that that they don't do when they're fighting. But just to remind you, no stance in Karate has a hand at the hip and the motion of pulling the hand to the hip is pulling the opponent into a punch.

EDIT:
Guys, come on, let's not turn this thread into a personal argument. We had a good thing going here. :)
 
Just to loosen up the atmosphere... :)

funny_karate_t_shirt-p235412142167391163tr96_400.jpg


Extrema-Hunting-Deer-Karate-Kick.gif


karate_breaking.gif
 
Point taken. Fair game.

It's true, there are things that Karate guys do in training that that they don't do when they're fighting. But just to remind you, no stance in Karate has a hand at the hip and the motion of pulling the hand to the hip is pulling the opponent into a punch.

No.... no, this is one theory. It's not the reason.
 
And they don't utilize traditional blocks, like the high block.

I believed this was one of the most unpractical blocks through most of my training. I thought I will never use this block in sparring because nobody will ever do a karate chop, downward to the top of my head. I never used this block until I did a kyokushin tournament, and it saved my ass bigtime. I did a spinning hook kick and the guy just moved back slightly and delivered one of his own while my leg was still in the air. I saw it coming I saw the opening to escape from being struck but he was coming too fast. BOOM upper block. I intercepted that spinning hook kick and saved my ass. never again will I talk bad about the upper block.
 
I believed this was one of the most unpractical blocks through most of my training. I thought I will never use this block in sparring because nobody will ever do a karate chop, downward to the top of my head. I never used this block until I did a kyokushin tournament, and it saved my ass bigtime. I did a spinning hook kick and the guy just moved back slightly and delivered one of his own while my leg was still in the air. I saw it coming I saw the opening to escape from being struck but he was coming too fast. BOOM upper block. I intercepted that spinning hook kick and saved my ass. never again will I talk bad about the upper block.


Good story. I actually think that the whole discussion of traditional blocking is an interesting one.

Personally, I do think that in real fighting we do variations of traditional blocks. If something is coming overhead and you can't get away, you'll throw up your arm in a motion that's something like a high block. A simple parry is reminiscent of an inner forearm block. If you have a low kick coming at you and can't escape then you'll do something like a low block. Even without training, you'll do it instinctively. So in that sense, I believe that they are all valuable to practice.

One block that I'm pretty sure I will never, ever, ever use though is the knifehand block. It looks really cool, but really, I mean what the fuck is that shit?
 
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