Amir Khan gets attacked online by some religious Muslims for putting up a Christmass tree

i'm not here to argue about the validity of the belief since we could go on and on for pages about whether or not its true. I am telling you what the beliefs are. I am telling you that the Islamic religion (whether or not you believe in the religion) is against Paganism.

you're a special snowflake if Muslims saying we shouldn't have Christmas trees is disrespect.

Different interpretation, hard to judge

Surely you can agree there are very many interpretations of Islam
 
Different interpretation, hard to judge

Surely you can agree there are very many interpretations of Islam

I'm not sure how the "hard to judge" meme applies here. I was just saying to him that Muslim religion is against Paganism. It is a monotheistic faith.

He said that Prophet Muhammad co-opted a Pagan belief when Islam states that the Kaaba was from Abraham

Behold! We gave the site, to Ibrahim, of the (Sacred) House, (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).

— Quran, Chapter 22 (Al Hajj) verse 26[22]

Now he can continue and say that the above is false but he cannot say that Muslims co-opted a pagan belief since they believe it was given to Abraham. This is different than Christmas where most Christians know it was a pagan holiday and that Jesus was not born on that day and was not born in winter.
 
Not sure if serious

You just don't think. You are the modern leftist that is screwing the whole thing up. You think your atheism and following of everything left makes you intellectual. It does not. The opposite.
 
You just don't think. You are the modern leftist that is screwingbtge whole thing up. You think your atheism and following of everything left makes you intellectual. It does not. The opposite.

haha this is gold

Using science and reason makes me the opposite of intellectual

200.webp
 
haha this is gold

You're losing. Sounding like a stupid child makes you lose in smart world. Can you make some valid points, or are you going to take the low road and pretend that wins?
 
i'm not here to argue about the validity of the belief since we could go on and on for pages about whether or not its true. I am telling you what the beliefs are. I am telling you that the Islamic religion (whether or not you believe in the religion) is against Paganism.

you're a special snowflake if Muslims saying we shouldn't have Christmas trees is disrespect.
The origins of the Kaaba is pertinent because it shows that Muslims claiming they are against Paganism are engaging in cognitive dissonance and or outright lying. They are not against it when it suits them. They are only against it when it doesn't suit them.

The snowflake comment is more aptly applied to Muslims who are always triggered by anything non-Muslim. They just can't tolerate other Muslims not behaving as exclusionary as they are. No one is forcing Christmas trees onto Muslims. It's a tradition in Western culture that isn't just a religious custom, so when these critical Muslims oppose other Muslims enjoying the tradition they are just revealing their own tribal way of thinking. They want all Muslims to adhere to some kind of tribal solidarity to each other, and some Muslims adopting non-Muslim traditions is seen as integration and consequently a threat to Muslim identity. One of those commenters mentioned how Khan is a Muslim role model so he shouldn't do this.
 
You're losing. Sounding like a stupid child makes you lose in smart world. Can you make some valid points, or are you going to take the low road and pretend that wins?

What are we arguing about again? That using science, reason and logic makes me anti-intellectual. I would like to hear your arguments about that.

Or you an continue to invoke your emotions and be upset that I'm an atheist
 
What are we arguing about again? That using science, reason and logic makes me anti-intellectual. I would like to hear your arguments about that.

Or you an continue to invoke your emotions and be upset that I'm an atheist

What science and logic did you use dummy?

I said that prayer and meditation has been shown to increase activity in the prefrontal cortex. Look it up. This is the human part of the brain involved in empathy and executive function.

I explained, logically, how religion and faith helped advance society from a primitive state, especially Christianity.

You think "Well I'm aware that a guy can't really live in a fish" = "I am using some real science and logic." Truly the modern, shallow leftist. Go deeper. Thinking politically only prevents depth in thought. One of the reasons it is being pushed so hard, I believe.
 
What are we arguing about again? That using science, reason and logic makes me anti-intellectual. I would like to hear your arguments about that.

Or you an continue to invoke your emotions and be upset that I'm an atheist

I was raised by a scientist who did not go to church. I'm not mad you are an atheist.
 
What science and logic did you use dummy?

I said that prayer and meditation has been shown to increase activity in the prefrontal cortex. Look it up. This is the human part of the brain involved in empathy and executive function.

I explained, logically, how religion and faith helped advance society from a primitive state, especially Christianity.

You think "Well I'm aware that a guy can't really live in a fish" = "I am using some real science and logic." Truly the modern, shallow leftist. Go deeper. Thinking politically only prevents depth in thought. One of the reasons it is being pushed so hard, I believe.

You said people tribalize and with religion the tribes got bigger and they taught people that murder and things are wrong. I would direct you to the old testament and the new testament in a book called the bible. In that book murder is basically the main idea.. LUCKILY society found out that killing and raping is NOT the best way to run that society and so religious ideals were more taboo which they remain to this day.

I understand that you are emotionally upset that I'm an atheist though. Which is why you are attacking and using words like "dummy"
 
I'm not sure how the "hard to judge" meme applies here. I was just saying to him that Muslim religion is against Paganism. It is a monotheistic faith.

He said that Prophet Muhammad co-opted a Pagan belief when Islam states that the Kaaba was from Abraham

Behold! We gave the site, to Ibrahim, of the (Sacred) House, (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).

— Quran, Chapter 22 (Al Hajj) verse 26[22]

Now he can continue and say that the above is false but he cannot say that Muslims co-opted a pagan belief since they believe it was given to Abraham. This is different than Christmas where most Christians know it was a pagan holiday and that Jesus was not born on that day and was not born in winter.
And the Christmas tree tradition was given to Christians by god. It was just given a tad early, and therefore used by pagans prior to Christianity's beginnings.

Same bullshit argument.

What Micro is saying is why should we be accepting of Islamic practices and traditions when that acceptance is a one way street.
 
You said people tribalize and with religion the tribes got bigger and they taught people that murder and things are wrong. I would direct you to the old testament and the new testament in a book called the bible. In that book murder is basically the main idea.. LUCKILY society found out that killing and raping is NOT the best way to run that society and so religious ideals were more taboo which they remain to this day.

I understand that you are emotionally upset that I'm an atheist though. Which is why you are attacking and using words like "dummy"

I'm not upset you are an atheist. I am a huge Carl sagan fan. The modern atheist isn't thinking very deep, and that's the worst of both worlds.
 
I'm not upset you are an atheist. I am a huge Carl sagan fan. The modern atheist isn't thinking very deep, and that's the worst of both worlds.

Why does a modern atheist have to think, "very deep". Why can't we stop at, "I have seen no evidence of a god therefore I do not believe". I don't have to spend a ton of time researching to not believe. Common sense is really all you need.
 
The origins of the Kaaba is pertinent because it shows that Muslims claiming they are against Paganism are engaging in cognitive dissonance and or outright lying. They are not against it when it suits them. They are only against it when it doesn't suit them.

Muslims have always been against Paganism. The first thing they did was change Arabia from a Pagan society to a monotheistic one.

The snowflake comment is more aptly applied to Muslims who are always triggered by anything non-Muslim.

I already told you those guys are idiots for freaking out about this. I am strictly talking about why Khan shouldn't do it as a Muslim. Not the random idiots going overboard on his twitter.

They just can't tolerate other Muslims not behaving as exclusionary as they are. No one is forcing Christmas trees onto Muslims. It's a tradition in Western culture that isn't just a religious custom, so when these critical Muslims oppose other Muslims enjoying the tradition they are just revealing their own tribal way of thinking. They want all Muslims to adhere to some kind of tribal solidarity to each other, and some Muslims adopting non-Muslim traditions is seen as integration and consequently a threat to Muslim identity. One of those commenters mentioned how Khan is a Muslim role model so he shouldn't do this.

This is so dumb its beyond belief. Its literally 1+1 level simplicity about why a Muslim ought to not do Pagan things. Yes Khan Shouldn't do this. But its his decision, this doesn't make him a non-Muslim. People shouldn't freak out about it. No one is perfect but it is against Islam to do Pagan practices and other Muslims can point that out to him.
 
And the Christmas tree tradition was given to Christians by god. It was just given a tad early, and therefore used by pagans prior to Christianity's beginnings.

Same bullshit argument.

That argument can't hold up because there is no revelation telling Christians to celebrate Christmas on dec 25 and co-opt a Pagan holiday. God would also be a liar to tell people to celebrate Christmas as Jesus' birthday when he wasn't born on that day.

What Micro is saying is why should we be accepting of Islamic practices and traditions when that acceptance is a one way street.

I accept that Khan has the right to do so. It is against Islamic practices but this isn't some major sin.
 
Why does a modern atheist have to think, "very deep". Why can't we stop at, "I have seen no evidence of a god therefore I do not believe". I don't have to spend a ton of time researching to not believe. Common sense is really all you need.
I think the problem is there are atheists like that.. then there's the atheists that will openly mock Christians and Jews but won't openly mock Islam or the eastern religions and will start mocking someone that believes there MIGHT be something (I fall in this last group) and they start mocking you instantly thinking you're a Christian which is when I pull the "no... I believe in Odin. He promised to kill all the Ice Giants.. you see any Ice Giants" and then THAT kind of atheist will have this dumbfounded "well shit... now what" look on their face.


Gervais or however you spell his name, the dude from the original version of The Office in the UK is horribly guilty of that double standard. If one is going to be a mocking atheist mock everything.
 
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