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Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Frode Falch, Nov 8, 2017.
You trolling a troll?
THATS EXACTLY WHY
BEEN THERE BEFORE, luckily i have also gotten to train w/pros and active ammys who understand the context of pace, situational awareness, letting a guy work and working on things of their own.
but i get the conundrum...u don't want to get walked over; so your coach is saying get their respect, but when there is such a disadvantage in conditioning skill and durability its hard to really get respect... Cus you don't crack hard enough or take it well enough to "back them off" and clearly exchanges are the times its easiest to get hit so it makes u defensive. Which also gets u hit cus they know you aren't firing off...
its a tough spot...theoretically u have to crack them a good couple'a times to make them at least be responsible and disciplined in their offense instead of teeing off. The real life execution of this can be a bit of a diff thing to do.
It's getting better every week as I get more comfortable defensively and get in better shape/am able to conserve energy better as I relax more. I also have 10-20 lbs on my main sparring partners which helps a lot. But basically you're right, I think I just have to go for it and if I land some good shots awesome, if I don't hit them hard well at least I'm throwing back. I definitely had more success with same time counters and keeping people at the end of my range this week, it's just a process like learning anything else.
Let them bang mang!
When it comes to sparring partners and the balance of power in the gym, ive found that you gotta walk the line and play the game.
Its a necessity when you are dealing with highly competitive and ego driven mma guys.
You don't have to ramp in up and go to war. If they pick up ask them to back it off, if they do it again, ask them to back it down, if they ramp up, drill em, then back it down. Some times if you let them know that you CAN go you just don't want to, that can be enough.
Honestly though it sounds like your coach has issues.
As far as conditioning goes, you don't need to win every second of every round. Let them throw and miss, conserve energy, then pour it on for the last min. If they're tired tough shit, drill em. Maybe they wont go so hard for the first 2 if they keep getting bashed in the 3rd
1) sometimes when guys know you CAN, then they chill because they become aware of consequences if they push it; sometimes they just want to know you have it in you to FIGHT back. Once they know u willing to take ur licks and get urs in they don't mind chilling..
i have experienced that as well
2)excellent advice poise, situational awareness and ring iq go far in figting and sparring; u don't just work on skills and conditioning when you spar.. poise iq and awareness are things u work on too
That's the catch 21 of a competitive mma gym (or even a mt/kickboxing/boxing gym).
A gym like that is ideal for people looking to compete. It's not so great for people that aren't looking to compete or become a fighter.
I've personally noticed from some gyms I've gone to though that sparring hard or a competitive training environment will do more harm than good in the long term especially on your health. You'll pick up lots of injuries that will become nagging injuries in later life - on top of all the trauma to the head. It's a necessary evil for someone who fight/competes for a living or someone that aspires to compete - but I don't think it's necessary for someone that just wants to train for the lifestyle aspect or the enjoyment of training - hell it's not even a requirement for self defense to spar hard regularly. It does more harm than good for those in the recreational category.
I think though this is the limitation of a competitive gym - it's an environment that is great for a specific time frame of your life but not so great outside of that - maybe even detrimental.
The advice on getting lit up in sparring: 'hit them harder so they won't feel so free to tee off' and 'make them respect you' - is ideal if you're similar in age/experience/conditioning - like others have said it's not so great otherwise. As you've even said hitting someone harder who trains professionally probably won't really work in your favour. I think outside of that environment it's not good advice either.
But I feel like ego is a part and parcel of a competitive gym. It's almost a requirement if you want to get to the top of the mound. In those types of gym sparring is a competition too.
If I was in your position I'd probably be doing the exact same thing as you and working on my defense. Although I'd try to maintain distance as best as I can so they can't hit me too much (you're still learning how to maintain your distance under pressure and developing that important skill) and stick to parry/countering shots (you'll get better at that too) - since doing that you can really pull down the pace of the sparring session so it's not so hard & you aren't getting lit up as much. I've done that in the past - and can honestly say it's worked for me.
Whenever I'm sparring I always try to prioritize putting someone off balance - I feel like in this situation if you can find ways to compromise their balance - either as they are kicking or punching - they'll be more cautious to engage you (since it's not a great feeling losing your balance multiple times) and this way you can have more space to maneuver and ease some of the intensity of the spar & slow down the pace a bit.
I love this kind of a spar damn. I can do that every day. Friendly not heavy spar. Obviously some of the hits land heavy, but not too heavy. It is a spar to learn counters and attacks and to practice them. You miss some hits and some land on you but that is fine as the environment is obviously friendly in there. It looks like 2 people willing to practice and not to fight.
I think you're right that whether it's a good fit depends a lot on your goals and physical capabilities. Hard as it is it's a good gym for me at the moment as a long time grappler looking to get competent enough at striking quickly to be able to fight MMA a few times before fully transitioning to coaching, but I don't know that I'll train there for years. Though in all fairness, after I feel competent and get a few fights under my belt I'll probably go back to devoting the majority of my training time to grappling. That's what I'm really good at, it's what I can see myself doing long term, and it's what I want to coach. Striking is fascinating and so much fun to learn and compete in but I think it's just less sustainable to train the way I like to train (that is, fairly competitively) into late middle age.
I think in my gym's culture it would be frowned upon to ask anyone to back off. Though maybe that's just my ego as a long time competitive martial artist (though of course in a very different discipline); I have noticed that the experienced guys don't go nearly as hard with the other newer guys as they do with me, and that could either be because I'm going harder than I realize or because they all know my reputation from grappling so they just assume I can keep up even though I'm a MT novice.
Don't know if my coach has issues, he just has a very specific sort of competitive gym culture he's looking to create. He's pretty up front about it, and I don't think he would ever tell you he's running a gym that he'd expect any random person to succeed in. He's definitely very focused on producing competitive fighters.
The last piece of advice is really good, I definitely need to start doing that, being more measured and not trying to pour it on all the time. I do work a lot on defense, but I'm pretty easy to suck into a brawl and that's when I do end up gassing and getting worked.