Any information about "Wu Lin Feng"? - January 31 - Amazing Kickboxing Event

There are a total of 7 officially sanctioned unified bouts between the martial association of the two countries and several other non-formal business matches. The first fight was 2001 and in that fight the Thais weren't allowed to elbow whereas Sanda throws score two points in accordance to the king of sanda rules. The Chinese side took advantage of throws and sidekicks and outscored the Thai side and won 4:3. The Chinese then lost in Bangkok at 2:6 the next bout. However, overall, the Chinese side won 6 out of the 7 bouts, but their victories were mostly from points whereas many of the Thai victories were due to knockouts. The Thais complained that the early bouts favored sanshou because the takedowns scored two points and clinch time was only 2 seconds. This changed in 2009.

So the Thai's can use elbows and clinch to their hearts desire in these "unified bouts"?

The Thais wear elbow pads, but they can elbow to their heart's content, the clinch time was extended to 5 seconds since 2009 and they can knee to their heart's content, just not to the face.


Sanda has many takedowns that are banned in Muay Thai right? Are these takedowns allowed?

Offensive takedowns are banned in unified bouts since 2009, fighters can only apply wrestling in clinch or to counter a strike.
 
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Oh by the way guys, WLF has put up the entire event up on Youtube here it is

[YT]watch?v=jbTPI-GvRP4[/YT]
 
Awesome. I love this full event on YouTube business.
 
Nice. Subscribed!

I'll be watching that full event tonight...
 

I Can't tell who the second Thai is, and can't even make it to the end to see the result as that site doesn't work well on my device.

Lamsongkram doesn't matter.

Jomthong won

So were still at the same point with Saenchai being the only "top Thai" being brought up.

China has consistently beaten top Thai fighters in almost every exchange bout losing far less than they win.
 
I Can't tell who the second Thai is, and can't even make it to the end to see the result as that site doesn't work well on my device.

Lamsongkram doesn't matter.

Jomthong won

So were still at the same point with Saenchai being the only "top Thai" being brought up.

Lamsongkram mattered in 2009 as did Kaoklai. I did not say the Chinese beat every Thai, I said all these unified matches were overall Chinese victories (overall as in there were more Chinese victories than Thai ones in that particular event). In any case, I already proved my point that Chinese fighters have no problem taking on top level Thai fighters, I don't see any point in nitpicking on small matters.

Guys like Buakaw and Yod still haven't been defeated by Chinese fighters (Bateer drawed Yod however), while guys like Zhang Kaiyin are also undefeated against Thai fighters. If we take wrestling into consideration Han Lei also defeated Samkor.
 
Lamsongkram mattered in 2009 as did Kaoklai. I did not say the Chinese beat every Thai, I said all these unified matches were overall Chinese victories (overall as in there were more Chinese victories than Thai ones in that particular event). In any case, I already proved my point that Chinese fighters have no problem taking on top level Thai fighters, I don't see any point in nitpicking on small matters.

Guys like Buakaw and Yod still haven't been defeated by Chinese fighters (Bateer drawed Yod however), while guys like Zhang Kaiyin are also undefeated against Thai fighters. If we take wrestling into consideration Han Lei also defeated Samkor.

They can only take on top level guys when they are given 2 points for a takedown in a striking match or when they have around 15 pounds on the guy they are fighting. Take saenchai for instance his last fight in the thai stadiums he weighed in at 129 where as his two fights he lost kb rules to opponents from china the fight weight was 143
 
Lamsongkram mattered in 2009 as did Kaoklai. I did not say the Chinese beat every Thai, I said all these unified matches were overall Chinese victories (overall as in there were more Chinese victories than Thai ones in that particular event). In any case, I already proved my point that Chinese fighters have no problem taking on top level Thai fighters, I don't see any point in nitpicking on small matters.

Guys like Buakaw and Yod still haven't been defeated by Chinese fighters (Bateer drawed Yod however), while guys like Zhang Kaiyin are also undefeated against Thai fighters. If we take wrestling into consideration Han Lei also defeated Samkor.


Five months prior to his fight with the Chinese fighter in 2009 Lamsongkram was fighting at Rajadamnern in the fight AFTER the main event. That's how much they think of the 160 pound category. If you're a top Thai and matter you're not being an afterthought on an already weak show. The only time fighters that matter are on the fight after the main event is when the card is super stacked.

Kaoklai was washed up in late 2009. He was surely not a "top level Thai" in 2009, and probably never was at anytime.
 
Five months prior to his fight with the Chinese fighter in 2009 Lamsongkram was fighting at Rajadamnern in the fight AFTER the main event. That's how much they think of the 160 pound category. If you're a top Thai and matter you're not being an afterthought on an already weak show. The only time fighters that matter are on the fight after the main event is when the card is super stacked.

Kaoklai was washed up in late 2009. He was surely not a "top level Thai" in 2009, and probably never was at anytime.

My definition of top level clearly isn't the same as yours then. Top level as far as I'm concerned is simply someone who was ranked and won some major titles. They don't have to be the absolute best. In which case, using your definition, the Thais haven't defeated any top level Chinese fighters either as Zhang Kaiyin, Huang Lei, Fang Bian, Liu Hailong, Bao Ligao are all undefeated.
 
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They can only take on top level guys when they are given 2 points for a takedown in a striking match or when they have around 15 pounds on the guy they are fighting. Take saenchai for instance his last fight in the thai stadiums he weighed in at 129 where as his two fights he lost kb rules to opponents from china the fight weight was 143

Wait, striking match? The unified rules was made to incorporate all the weapons of both combat sports, which means it isn't purely striking. Yes, in a full Thai rule format, no doubt Sanda guys would not win, but Sanda as a sport is not about striking, thats the point. The Thais agreed to it so its all fair game. Also, Han Lei would still have beaten Samkor even if takedowns only counted one. Saenchai was defeated under Kickboxing rules in Wulingfeng, there was no point for takedowns.
 
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Wait, striking match? The unified rules was made to incorporate all the weapons of both combat sports, which means it isn't purely striking. Yes, in a full Thai rule format, no doubt Sanda guys would not win, but Sanda as a sport is not about striking, thats the point. The Thais agreed to it so its all fair game. Also, Han Lei would still have beaten Sakor even if takedowns only counted one. Saenchai was defeated under Kickboxing rules in Wulingfeng, there was no point for takedowns.

if it was really unified takedowns would be scored equal to strikes and not 2 points to 1
 
Throws score 2 points in pro Sanshou tournaments, reducing it to one actually handicaps sanda, not unifying its rules.
 
Throws score 2 points in pro Sanshou tournaments, reducing it to one actually handicaps sanda, not unifying its rules.

yes but under muay thai knees and round kicks score much more highly than punches and side kicks. So in the interest of fairness and to make the playing field equal all scoring techniques should basically be judged as equal otherwise just fight under one real rule set or the other and make a win actually noteworthy
 
yes but under muay thai knees and round kicks score much more highly than punches and side kicks. So in the interest of fairness and to make the playing field equal all scoring techniques should basically be judged as equal otherwise just fight under one real rule set or the other and make a win actually noteworthy

The early rules might favor sanda a tad more, but I think the later rules favor MT a bit more. Wrestling is half of Sanda, making it into a striking match is like asking MMA fighters to fight under full Thai rules with wrestling reduced to 1 point only if one fighter remain standing and the other falls. In standard Sanda, high altitude throws score as much as 3 points, more than anything and throws where one fighter ends on top score 1, both are missing in unified rules.

I don't think one can truly give out a "fair" assessment of two different sports. I think the major difference in MT is that its a damage based rather than a point based scoring system. Sanda cannot be a damage based system because that would nullify the wrestling part of the game.
 
Come on guys, this is an age old argument so forget about it already. It all boils down to this. in FMT the Sanda guys would not do well not really because of scoring or elbows and knees but more specifically they cannot use the sanda takedown. You have to know that the sanda takedown was developed to counter the thai clinch.

If you see Fang Bian Vs Marcus, which was a WLF/K1 rules fight, in the first round Marcus was always trying to go in the clinch and hip throw(which is not allowed under the rules) Fang Bian. In the start of the second round Fang Bian tried to do a takedown on Marcus but he change his mind as (it was also not allowed) and also party to show Marcus that if you keep clinching me, i could take you down. You could see that after that Marcus did not attempt to do it again.

Although currently in my opinion the best rule set for the two styles will be K-1, as in, MT allowed to use clinch one knee/attack no elbow. no hip throws and no sanda takedowns allowed.


If you want them to use all your weapons, I would say FMT with sanda takedowns with countdown scoring from 10, judging would be on the overall rounds and not count every punch, knee and elbow, or takedown. much like how K1 is being scored. with all strikes considered equal. with downs increasing your ring controll which could score you higher if round is scored a draw and no significant power hits for either in the round.
 
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