Anyone attend a BJJ school that doesnt teach the "traditional" way?

[SinkOrSwim]

I wondering if anyone goes to a BJJ club that doesnt teach the way most places do, ie: teach a few random techniques, drill them a few times, then roll.
Im getting a bit bored with this format and would rather work/drill concepts as opposed to single techniques.
If you do train at a place that does if different then the norm, whats do they do? How is the class structured? And do you think it works?

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

I think theres nothing wrong with this approach, as long as the techniques being taught are taught in a good reasonable order. Couple that with drills, situation training and rolling time, that makes for a solid training session.

Working/drilling concepts still require the instructor to be strict about teaching techniques to demonstrate these concepts, or else it would either be A) a lecture or B) a sloppy technique session in which everyone does something slightly similar but a mess of variations of the techniques.

What I have a problem with is when the techniques being taught in class have no relationship to each other and they are taught sloppily or when too much techniques are taught

Understanding and knowing concepts are useless if you haven't been shown good, solid technique to drill. If you are given concepts and told to figure it out, that will take a long time to progress, just like drilling random shit in class

teaching concepts is best reserved for lectures after training or for a DVD

 

[efficientjudo]

You teach the concepts via the techniques - it the concepts in context - especially important for beginners, because don't have the fundamental understanding of what is going on.
Advanced classes, although still looking a specific technique / position are much more conceptual, is that because of the way they are taught or because of my mind set going into them - I don't know.
My only real gripe with the common formula, is that there isn't often much time set aside to drill / work things specific to your game.

 

[Balto]

I use different formats depending on how I judge the needs of the class.

One of my favorite formats though (probably 75%+) is this:

I tell them to make partners and switch things around to make the best pairings. I put three minute rounds on the timer, and I have them run continuously back to back with no break.

Then I just tell them to train whatever they want. The idea of the timer is to give them regular indicators to divide their training with. My default suggestion is that one person drills for three minutes, and the next three minutes the other person drills.

It doesn't have to be that way though, and students have gotten more creative about how to structure things over time. Now I will see them agree on a position to start specific rolling from, and then they will divide out the time to cover starting from different areas over the training period. A few groups will just sort of explore concepts generally without much regard to the time. A few groups just roll.

For running the class, I just float around and keep an eye on what everyone is doing. It seems like it would be chaos having all of these groups doing completely different things all at the same time, but it runs very smoothly actually. There is still a very good team vibe that we are all working together even though everyone is training to meet his own individual needs.

I can see each pair, see what they are doing, see how they are doing at it, etc. I just make corrections if needed. Sometimes the corrections are technical in nature (try this way instead), and sometimes the corrections are broader based on training method (your drill looks pretty good on that now; try a few rounds rolling from that position and focus on hitting it live).

This method works well for me up to at least 20 people.

 

[Quebec Nick]

I understand your point TS

For me the best improvement I made are mostly due to concepts like guard retention, transition from position to other positions (like butterfly to single X), escaping... Also, taking time to understand instead of just learning techniques back to back.

I rarely learn that kind of stuff in class, I learn it by myself by watching a lot of videos (youtube, grapplers guide, bjj scout), and I learn a lot by hanging out after class with my coach and other high belts. That's where we can discuss about entries, concepts, fine tuning stuff, trying stuff. We also have a drilling time just before the day class, there we can help each other, giving tips, linking techniques together.

But with my coaches it's a lot about attacking (sweeps, guard concepts, guard switching, guard passes and submissions) I learn all of my defensive concepts on the grapplers guide (guard retention, escapes, transitionnal escaping, guard escaping). I learned some mount and side control escapes in class but it was fast and not covering all the counters.

A lot of time the coach will talk about concepts that the technique is based on, but it's not very thorough.

But I understand, class time is limited, in BJJ we don't spar the right way and we don't drill enough reps, we should do more specific sparring and a lot more repetitions when we do technique. I don't complain, I love to just roll...

 

[SinkOrSwim]

A few interesting points were made, for example:
If you ONLY go over concepts then the class becomes more of a lecture. So there needs to be balance, and student participation.

If you go too "concept heavy" students may just end up with poor technique. So there definitely needs to be correction of students techniques.
And it could possibly be a problem for new students, trying to take it all in.

I do understand the Idea of learning concepts through the techniques, this is mostly how I have learnt. but I feel this is kind of the long (or even wrong) way around.
It seems to me new students would be less lost if they learnt larger concepts early on, then focused on the "finer details" at a later stage. (However, im not an instructor so maybe I have ot wrong)
I love BJJ, And i think Im lucky to train where I do, but im just finding the class format a bit boring lately and Im getting more from watching conceptual DVDs and BJJ matches than I am from class at the moment.

 

[DatCutman]

I use different formats depending on how I judge the needs of the class.

One of my favorite formats though (probably 75%+) is this:

I tell them to make partners and switch things around to make the best pairings. I put three minute rounds on the timer, and I have them run continuously back to back with no break.

Then I just tell them to train whatever they want. The idea of the timer is to give them regular indicators to divide their training with. My default suggestion is that one person drills for three minutes, and the next three minutes the other person drills.

It doesn't have to be that way though, and students have gotten more creative about how to structure things over time. Now I will see them agree on a position to start specific rolling from, and then they will divide out the time to cover starting from different areas over the training period. A few groups will just sort of explore concepts generally without much regard to the time. A few groups just roll.

For running the class, I just float around and keep an eye on what everyone is doing. It seems like it would be chaos having all of these groups doing completely different things all at the same time, but it runs very smoothly actually. There is still a very good team vibe that we are all working together even though everyone is training to meet his own individual needs.

I can see each pair, see what they are doing, see how they are doing at it, etc. I just make corrections if needed. Sometimes the corrections are technical in nature (try this way instead), and sometimes the corrections are broader based on training method (your drill looks pretty good on that now; try a few rounds rolling from that position and focus on hitting it live).

This method works well for me up to at least 20 people.

Awesome idea. Also it's a great point that you have to judge the needs of the class. Teaching a room full of no-stripe white belts and a room full of seasoned purple/browns the same way is ignoring that these two groups have different needs to grow. Neat!

 

[fishNjits]

I use different formats depending on how I judge the needs of the class.

One of my favorite formats though (probably 75%+) is this:

I tell them to make partners and switch things around to make the best pairings. I put three minute rounds on the timer, and I have them run continuously back to back with no break.

Then I just tell them to train whatever they want. The idea of the timer is to give them regular indicators to divide their training with. My default suggestion is that one person drills for three minutes, and the next three minutes the other person drills.

It doesn't have to be that way though, and students have gotten more creative about how to structure things over time. Now I will see them agree on a position to start specific rolling from, and then they will divide out the time to cover starting from different areas over the training period. A few groups will just sort of explore concepts generally without much regard to the time. A few groups just roll.

For running the class, I just float around and keep an eye on what everyone is doing. It seems like it would be chaos having all of these groups doing completely different things all at the same time, but it runs very smoothly actually. There is still a very good team vibe that we are all working together even though everyone is training to meet his own individual needs.

I can see each pair, see what they are doing, see how they are doing at it, etc. I just make corrections if needed. Sometimes the corrections are technical in nature (try this way instead), and sometimes the corrections are broader based on training method (your drill looks pretty good on that now; try a few rounds rolling from that position and focus on hitting it live).

This method works well for me up to at least 20 people.

One of our professors does this from time to time. It's a really good break to just sit back and work on some stuff you really want to work on.

 

[Balto]

Also it's a great point that you have to judge the needs of the class. Teaching a room full of no-stripe white belts and a room full of seasoned purple/browns the same way is ignoring that these two groups have different needs to grow.

One reason I like that format I described is it's broad enough to cover the times when I have vastly disparate skill levels all together. I have had some classes with couple month white belts at the low end and a guy representing North America in ADCC at the high end.

That's a big gap, but by just letting everyone train as described, it seems to meet everyone's needs. The high level guys tell me they really like the training format that way. The lower level guys might arguably do a little better with more structure, but I think they also get a lot of value just from being training partners to higher level guys.

Even if it's just a psychological boost, the fact that a blue belt gets to be the repetition partner for a high level black belt seems to benefit the blue belt. You can see it when the competition rolls around. Those guys feel connected to that training partner in a very real way and get a lot of satisfaction when they see their higher level teammate win on the big stage.

I use that method so much because it seems a good way to balance the individual nature of the sport while still keeping a very strong and positive team effort feeling.

 

[asian-glow]

I didn't like the traditional class format so I asked if I could run a class very similar to Balto's. Sometimes it is the only class I attend. Lately, however, I've noticed my instructor is incorporating more "move of choice" time slots.

 

[IndyCovaHart]

Gi training is such a waste.

 

[winterbike]

Gi training is such a waste.

Your mom is a waste.

 

[asian-glow]

I use different formats depending on how I judge the needs of the class.

One of my favorite formats though (probably 75%+) is this:

I tell them to make partners and switch things around to make the best pairings. I put three minute rounds on the timer, and I have them run continuously back to back with no break.

Then I just tell them to train whatever they want. The idea of the timer is to give them regular indicators to divide their training with. My default suggestion is that one person drills for three minutes, and the next three minutes the other person drills.

It doesn't have to be that way though, and students have gotten more creative about how to structure things over time. Now I will see them agree on a position to start specific rolling from, and then they will divide out the time to cover starting from different areas over the training period. A few groups will just sort of explore concepts generally without much regard to the time. A few groups just roll.

For running the class, I just float around and keep an eye on what everyone is doing. It seems like it would be chaos having all of these groups doing completely different things all at the same time, but it runs very smoothly actually. There is still a very good team vibe that we are all working together even though everyone is training to meet his own individual needs.

I can see each pair, see what they are doing, see how they are doing at it, etc. I just make corrections if needed. Sometimes the corrections are technical in nature (try this way instead), and sometimes the corrections are broader based on training method (your drill looks pretty good on that now; try a few rounds rolling from that position and focus on hitting it live).

This method works well for me up to at least 20 people.

I like this format but lately I have been some issues.

1. I was surprised by the # of people who just want to be told what to do - I'm talking multiple stripe blue belts and low purple belts. I know this because some people have told me they prefer not to think.
2. New guys fuck this whole thing up (e.g. it's their 5th session ever), especially if there are a few of them. I find I spend a disproportionate mount of time helping these guys out which in truth, is the way it should be. It's especially difficult when there are an odd # of partners and I have to partner up with them.
3. I don't do any warm up because it's a waste of time for me. For some of the people, however (e.g. older guys and novices) I wonder if they could benefit from the movement patterns which could add to their athleticism.
4. I imagine you don't actually do any reps yourself since your so busy managing everyone else?

 

[IndyCovaHart]

Your mom is a waste.

No I love her so much mon

 

[Balto]

I like this format but lately I have been some issues.

1. I was surprised by the # of people who just want to be told what to do - I'm talking multiple stripe blue belts and low purple belts. I know this because some people have told me they prefer not to think.
2. New guys fuck this whole thing up (e.g. it's their 5th session ever), especially if there are a few of them. I find I spend a disproportionate mount of time helping these guys out which in truth, is the way it should be. It's especially difficult when there are an odd # of partners and I have to partner up with them.
3. I don't do any warm up because it's a waste of time for me. For some of the people, however (e.g. older guys and novices) I wonder if they could benefit from the movement patterns which could add to their athleticism.
4. I imagine you don't actually do any reps yourself since your so busy managing everyone else?

1. Just tell those people what to do. Either give them all a default or assign different things out individually. Once you give them something, that's all you have to give them for a while. Next class just tell them to do the same thing as last class. They will figure out how it works pretty quickly.

2. Just keep it simple with the new guys. Also you have to let them make a lot mistakes at first when they're new. Just correct one thing per class and move on. They have to learn the same way we learned -- doing stuff badly at first and slowly refining it over time through practice. When there is an odd number, just triangle one of the groups -- A drills on B, B drills on C, C drills on A. Move the odd person around to different groups periodically if the triangle group feels like they are getting shafted on training time. That will balance it over the whole group.

3. Have those students do the warmups as their drill for a few rounds. There are plenty of good movement pattern warmups they could be doing. Give them a few ideas. General warmup drills are super beneficial.

4. Whether I train myself depends on whether I'm in teaching mode or training mode. To be the best teacher, I can't train myself. I also don't get paid to teach and compete frequently so about half the time I'm in training mode. At those times, I mostly ignore everyone else. The overall management part is super easy so I can just train freely then. The difference is I can't really teach but that's the tradeoff. It's not like I'd be able to train using the more typical class format either.

 

[mcgoatp4p#1]

The first gym I joined (was there for a few years) didn't do sparring after class, only technique. We just had a dedicated sparring class every tuesday. It seemed normal to me at the time, but now it seems crazy to me. If I didnt get to do sparring after class now I'd lose my shit

 

[MaxMMA]

The random technique style is so frustrating. What the hell is so hard picking a specific position for each class and then drilling a few different techniques from that position on that day? Or drilling multiple techniques from different positions that end up building a combination/chain at the end of the drilling session.

 

[yetanother]

The random technique style is so frustrating. What the hell is so hard picking a specific position for each class and then drilling a few different techniques from that position on that day? Or drilling multiple techniques from different positions that end up building a combination/chain at the end of the drilling session.

Don't only the most old school of old school instructors teach random unconnected technique in a lesson?
I think it's not that it's a lot easier to just pick them at random but that they just don't want to change anything and don't give a fuck about quality.

 

[MaxMMA]

Don't only the most old school of old school instructors teach random unconnected technique in a lesson?
I think it's not that it's a lot easier to just pick them at random but that they just don't want to change anything and don't give a fuck about quality.

Truthfully I've been training in the same area for all of my training life so I can't talk from experience as a whole.

But in my experience, in multiple schools the techniques have either been random, or the instructor will teach a position/chain but there is no cycling through positions/situations regularly over the course of the year.

So you would end up working certian positions/situations more than others.

 

[yetanother]

So you would end up working certian positions/situations more than others.

As someone who was teaching the "competition" class twice a weak I was trying to keep the class focused on a few positions.
Sweeping people is a ton more important for competitions than say escaping mount.