Anyone try the Modern Leg Lock Formula Instructional ?

So would you say that the finishing mechanics on here are on par with what the DDS guys use? Because I've been to seminars with Gordon and Eddie and one thing they both said was that there was a lot of material out there on their game, but that most of it had pretty significant errors, especially on finishing mechanics.

It's the same overall finishing mechanic but they both emphasize different portions of the break. I've been heel heel hooked by the whole DDS and by Bernacki, it feels the same. Both teach the finishing mechanic as such:

1. Pin the hip and isolate the knee (with some kind of entanglement usually).
2. Get a bite on the toe/bunion area (toes in the armpit/bicep)
3. Shrug shoulders to remove slack
4. Do an oblique crunch into the foot, focusing on downward armpit pressure creating the "toes to butt" effect.
5. Elevate your hips off the floor and bridge into the knee to create the break. Make sure you've got a strong pinch on the knees during this.

I would mention the Danaher guys like to add an additional detail where they basically rotate their chest over the trapped heel during step 4 to really emphasize the toes to butt effect. Bernacki likes to add a step before bridging where he does a wrist roll towards the face which breaks the alignment of the foot and also causes the toes to butt effect. They both also favor different grips. Bernacki likes the reverse butterfly grip, and the DDS like the wrist to wrist grip. Neither like the standard grip that much.

The difference is the steps which they emphasize. Rob likes to emphasize the shrug which puts a stretch on the hip and the DDS emphasize the "toes to butt" portion of the break.

I personally like Robs kneebar mechanics more than what I was shown by the Danaher guys. I also prefer the way he plays outside ashi. This system isn't simply a carbon copy of what Eddie showed him 2 years ago, he's done his own adaptations. But obviously there is a lot of overlap.

But TBH the biggest gem of this system IMO isn't the breaking mechanics, it's how to hold the different leg entanglements. For instance many people think they're holding the saddle correctly when they do an abductor squeeze when they should actually be extending their knee into the hip and wedging the trapped knee. Asthetically it looks almost the same but one creates an actual pin that's difficult to escape and the other doesn't.

Hope all of this is clear.
 
It's the same overall finishing mechanic but they both emphasize different portions of the break. I've been heel heel hooked by the whole DDS and by Bernacki, it feels the same. Both teach the finishing mechanic as such:

1. Pin the hip and isolate the knee (with some kind of entanglement usually).
2. Get a bite on the toe/bunion area (toes in the armpit/bicep)
3. Shrug shoulders to remove slack
4. Do an oblique crunch into the foot, focusing on downward armpit pressure creating the "toes to butt" effect.
5. Elevate your hips off the floor and bridge into the knee to create the break. Make sure you've got a strong pinch on the knees during this.

I would mention the Danaher guys like to add an additional detail where they basically rotate their chest over the trapped heel during step 4 to really emphasize the toes to butt effect. Bernacki likes to add a step before bridging where he does a wrist roll towards the face which breaks the alignment of the foot and also causes the toes to butt effect. They both also favor different grips. Bernacki likes the reverse butterfly grip, and the DDS like the wrist to wrist grip. Neither like the standard grip that much.

The difference is the steps which they emphasize. Rob likes to emphasize the shrug which puts a stretch on the hip and the DDS emphasize the "toes to butt" portion of the break.

I personally like Robs kneebar mechanics more than what I was shown by the Danaher guys. I also prefer the way he plays outside ashi. This system isn't simply a carbon copy of what Eddie showed him 2 years ago, he's done his own adaptations. But obviously there is a lot of overlap.

But TBH the biggest gem of this system IMO isn't the breaking mechanics, it's how to hold the different leg entanglements. For instance many people think they're holding the saddle correctly when they do an abductor squeeze when they should actually be extending their knee into the hip and wedging the trapped knee. Asthetically it looks almost the same but one creates an actual pin that's difficult to escape and the other doesn't.

Hope all of this is clear.
giphy.gif
 
It's the same overall finishing mechanic but they both emphasize different portions of the break. I've been heel heel hooked by the whole DDS and by Bernacki, it feels the same. Both teach the finishing mechanic as such:

1. Pin the hip and isolate the knee (with some kind of entanglement usually).
2. Get a bite on the toe/bunion area (toes in the armpit/bicep)
3. Shrug shoulders to remove slack
4. Do an oblique crunch into the foot, focusing on downward armpit pressure creating the "toes to butt" effect.
5. Elevate your hips off the floor and bridge into the knee to create the break. Make sure you've got a strong pinch on the knees during this.

I would mention the Danaher guys like to add an additional detail where they basically rotate their chest over the trapped heel during step 4 to really emphasize the toes to butt effect. Bernacki likes to add a step before bridging where he does a wrist roll towards the face which breaks the alignment of the foot and also causes the toes to butt effect. They both also favor different grips. Bernacki likes the reverse butterfly grip, and the DDS like the wrist to wrist grip. Neither like the standard grip that much.

The difference is the steps which they emphasize. Rob likes to emphasize the shrug which puts a stretch on the hip and the DDS emphasize the "toes to butt" portion of the break.

I personally like Robs kneebar mechanics more than what I was shown by the Danaher guys. I also prefer the way he plays outside ashi. This system isn't simply a carbon copy of what Eddie showed him 2 years ago, he's done his own adaptations. But obviously there is a lot of overlap.

But TBH the biggest gem of this system IMO isn't the breaking mechanics, it's how to hold the different leg entanglements. For instance many people think they're holding the saddle correctly when they do an abductor squeeze when they should actually be extending their knee into the hip and wedging the trapped knee. Asthetically it looks almost the same but one creates an actual pin that's difficult to escape and the other doesn't.

Hope all of this is clear.

Correct me if I'm wrong but another thing I seem to see the DDS guys doing on the inside heel hook finish is transitioning from the 'trapped heel in the air side' to the trapped heel to the floor side" when they finish. It's almost like one hip is better for control and one is slightly more powerful for finishing.

Rob doesn't switch hips to finish the inside heel hook right? So if he has their right leg trapped in the 411/saddle then he stays on his left hip to finish I think. Most of the DDS finishes I've seen would see them staying on the left hip for control and then moving from the left hip onto the right hip for the finish. Sort of creating a quasi-belly down pressure on the side of the knee.

Bodycomb explains here why that's powerful:
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but another thing I seem to see the DDS guys doing on the inside heel hook finish is transitioning from the 'trapped heel in the air side' to the trapped heel to the floor side" when they finish. It's almost like one hip is better for control and one is slightly more powerful for finishing.

Rob doesn't switch hips to finish the inside heel hook right? So if he has their right leg trapped in the 411/saddle then he stays on his left hip to finish I think. Most of the DDS finishes I've seen would see them staying on the left hip for control and then moving from the left hip onto the right hip for the finish. Sort of creating a quasi-belly down pressure on the side of the knee.

Bodycomb explains here why that's powerful:

Yeah, control vs finish. Turning inside is a bad idea until you have the heel gripped or are sure you can catch it as you turn, because you don't want to let him get weight on his foot and curl it in. If you have the heel you can control the extension of his leg and prevent that.

The finish is more powerful when turned to the inside and it also removes a lot of escape and defense options.

Rob does not go into this at all that I remember, I will glance back over it to be sure.
 
I

But TBH the biggest gem of this system IMO isn't the breaking mechanics, it's how to hold the different leg entanglements. For instance many people think they're holding the saddle correctly when they do an abductor squeeze when they should actually be extending their knee into the hip and wedging the trapped knee. Asthetically it looks almost the same but one creates an actual pin that's difficult to escape and the other doesn't.

.

That particular detail is definitely in the weirdly produced Scott Sonnon instructionals from one zillion years ago too if i recall.
 
It does comeback. It's to make people more likely to impulse buy it with the self justification "oh well it could disappear soon I better buy it now"

Kesting will give any buyer his money back if they don't like his product for 365 days. He simply has some of the best stuff out there. Answers emails. I bought this set even though I have so much of his stuf to go through first. I know it will be excellent. But I'm a newish noob anyway so what do I know :).
 
It's the same overall finishing mechanic but they both emphasize different portions of the break. I've been heel heel hooked by the whole DDS and by Bernacki, it feels the same. Both teach the finishing mechanic as such:

1. Pin the hip and isolate the knee (with some kind of entanglement usually).
2. Get a bite on the toe/bunion area (toes in the armpit/bicep)
3. Shrug shoulders to remove slack
4. Do an oblique crunch into the foot, focusing on downward armpit pressure creating the "toes to butt" effect.
5. Elevate your hips off the floor and bridge into the knee to create the break. Make sure you've got a strong pinch on the knees during this.

I would mention the Danaher guys like to add an additional detail where they basically rotate their chest over the trapped heel during step 4 to really emphasize the toes to butt effect. Bernacki likes to add a step before bridging where he does a wrist roll towards the face which breaks the alignment of the foot and also causes the toes to butt effect. They both also favor different grips. Bernacki likes the reverse butterfly grip, and the DDS like the wrist to wrist grip. Neither like the standard grip that much.

The difference is the steps which they emphasize. Rob likes to emphasize the shrug which puts a stretch on the hip and the DDS emphasize the "toes to butt" portion of the break.

I personally like Robs kneebar mechanics more than what I was shown by the Danaher guys. I also prefer the way he plays outside ashi. This system isn't simply a carbon copy of what Eddie showed him 2 years ago, he's done his own adaptations. But obviously there is a lot of overlap.

But TBH the biggest gem of this system IMO isn't the breaking mechanics, it's how to hold the different leg entanglements. For instance many people think they're holding the saddle correctly when they do an abductor squeeze when they should actually be extending their knee into the hip and wedging the trapped knee. Asthetically it looks almost the same but one creates an actual pin that's difficult to escape and the other doesn't.

Hope all of this is clear.

Nice breakdown. Hespect.
 
But TBH the biggest gem of this system IMO isn't the breaking mechanics, it's how to hold the different leg entanglements. For instance many people think they're holding the saddle correctly when they do an abductor squeeze when they should actually be extending their knee into the hip and wedging the trapped knee. Asthetically it looks almost the same but one creates an actual pin that's difficult to escape and the other doesn't.

Mind elaborating a bit on this particular aspect? I think I follow it, but I'm not sure.
 
Mind elaborating a bit on this particular aspect? I think I follow it, but I'm not sure.
So when you have the saddle instead of squeezing your legs together, point your outside knee to the floor. So if you have their left leg trapped then your right knee will flare outwards to the right with your knee touching the floor. This will pins their hips. It also helps your knee and upper shin work as a shield to prevent them from sitting forward into you to grip fight, kill distance, etc. Even if they pull you over onto your left hip, still keep that knee opened up and flared. This will stop their spin out. Squeezing won't.

59286c13c2048.jpeg


Watch here from 2:52 until the finish at 5:54. See how Cummings is flaring his right knee outwards instead of pinching his legs together? This match is an awesome example of how to control from the saddle/411. And at 5:47 you can see how the knee/shin flare is giving Cocco difficulty handfighting and at 5:52 you can see during the actual finish how Cummings is still keeping the flare as he bridges into the side of the knee.

 
Last edited:
Correct me if I'm wrong but another thing I seem to see the DDS guys doing on the inside heel hook finish is transitioning from the 'trapped heel in the air side' to the trapped heel to the floor side" when they finish. It's almost like one hip is better for control and one is slightly more powerful for finishing.

Rob doesn't switch hips to finish the inside heel hook right? So if he has their right leg trapped in the 411/saddle then he stays on his left hip to finish I think. Most of the DDS finishes I've seen would see them staying on the left hip for control and then moving from the left hip onto the right hip for the finish. Sort of creating a quasi-belly down pressure on the side of the knee.



It's not really about finishing power, it's about dig mechanics. Rob uses entirely different dig mechanics than the Danaher guys in the saddle which allows him to stay on what he calls the strong side. All of his digs that I remember involve having control of both legs and then working to achieve a heel hook grip when the opponent can't use the free leg to generate base and is therefore forced to tap. The Danaher guys don't mind digging for the heel with only one leg controlled which will almost always involve falling to the weak side if the opponent hides their heel. But the Danaher guys also use strong side attacks where they control both legs then try to take the non-attacked leg out of play to ensure the finish. They also have slightly different cues for the break mechanics on the strong side, the weak side, and in an upside down alignment but all of them still involve shruggings, drawing the toes into the butt, and bridging into the knee for the finish. They also work a lot on controlling the persons roll which Rob doesn't really do.

I do remember asking about 50/50 which is also an inverted heel hook and in that case yes they do face the heel to the floor for the finish. Basically they use the exact same mechanism I mentioned above but due to the alignment of the leg they'll naturally fall to the weak side. Even then this isn't the one they always use. For example when Gordon tapped Keenan it was from the strong side. Eddie tapped Coco on the strong side too.

The problem with the weak side is people hide their heels in that direction and the most effective escapes from the saddle, including the ones the Danaher guys recommend come on that side. The only escapes against the saddle on the strong side I can think of are trying to come up into a smash pass, leg pummeling or trying to roll over your opponent in that direction. Trying to smash pass almost never works, especially if the other guy is wedging properly with his knee on your hip. Trying to roll is very difficult because you have no base and even if you do manage to roll you end up in a kneebar. Leg pummeling can work on a good opponent if they aren't controlling your far leg, which is why it's important to always control both until your already digging for the break. I should also note leg pummeling works on the strong side and the weak side.
 
It's not really about finishing power, it's about dig mechanics. Rob uses entirely different dig mechanics than the Danaher guys in the saddle which allows him to stay on what he calls the strong side. All of his digs that I remember involve having control of both legs and then working to achieve a heel hook grip when the opponent can't use the free leg to generate base and is therefore forced to tap. The Danaher guys don't mind digging for the heel with only one leg controlled which will almost always involve falling to the weak side if the opponent hides their heel. But the Danaher guys also use strong side attacks where they control both legs then try to take the non-attacked leg out of play to ensure the finish. They also have slightly different cues for the break mechanics on the strong side, the weak side, and in an upside down alignment but all of them still involve shruggings, drawing the toes into the butt, and bridging into the knee for the finish. They also work a lot on controlling the persons roll which Rob doesn't really do.

I do remember asking about 50/50 which is also an inverted heel hook and in that case yes they do face the heel to the floor for the finish. Basically they use the exact same mechanism I mentioned above but due to the alignment of the leg they'll naturally fall to the weak side. Even then this isn't the one they always use. For example when Gordon tapped Keenan it was from the strong side. Eddie tapped Coco on the strong side too.

The problem with the weak side is people hide their heels in that direction and the most effective escapes from the saddle, including the ones the Danaher guys recommend come on that side. The only escapes against the saddle on the strong side I can think of are trying to come up into a smash pass, leg pummeling or trying to roll over your opponent in that direction. Trying to smash pass almost never works, especially if the other guy is wedging properly with his knee on your hip. Trying to roll is very difficult because you have no base and even if you do manage to roll you end up in a kneebar. Leg pummeling can work on a good opponent if they aren't controlling your far leg, which is why it's important to always control both until your already digging for the break. I should also note leg pummeling works on the strong side and the weak side.
Thanks for this!

I find controlling both legs and working to finish on the strong side to work better for me. Like you said, the Danaher guys do it sometimes but also seem content to chase the finish to the weak side with only one leg controlled. I guess it's just a lot of confidence in their ability to finish? I think the strong side finish is good enough to always get the job done on most hobbyists right? I've never gotten a good bite on a strong side finish against anyone with a job and life outside of the gym that didn't tap to it. I'm guessing the weak side finish is needed more against professionals?

BTW for those interested in getting this instructional and are wondering if it's just a Danaher knockoff set. It's not. I have rolled with a few of the Danaher guys and I rolled with Bill Cooper right after he spent about a week working with Rob on Rob's system.

Needless to say they all heel hooked me to death. But I could feel slight differences between how Gordon Ryan heel hooked me and how Bill Cooper heel hooked me.
 
Thanks for this!

I find controlling both legs and working to finish on the strong side to work better for me. Like you said, the Danaher guys do it sometimes but also seem content to chase the finish to the weak side with only one leg controlled. I guess it's just a lot of confidence in their ability to finish? I think the strong side finish is good enough to always get the job done on most hobbyists right? I've never gotten a good bite on a strong side finish against anyone with a job and life outside of the gym that didn't tap to it. I'm guessing the weak side finish is needed more against professionals?

BTW for those interested in getting this instructional and are wondering if it's just a Danaher knockoff set. It's not. I have rolled with a few of the Danaher guys and I rolled with Bill Cooper right after he spent about a week working with Rob on Rob's system.

Needless to say they all heel hooked me to death. But I could feel slight differences between how Gordon Ryan heel hooked me and how Bill Cooper heel hooked me.

The weak side finish isn't stronger than the strong side. Keenan tapped to a strong side finish. The only thing the weak side finish provides over the strong side is it prevents the opponent from rolling over you to escape, which they can't do if you've used a dig that takes away their basing leg. But it's easier to smash pass the weak side and overall easier it's overall easier to escape. Every time Pena and Mendes were escaping the saddle it was on the weak side.

The Danaher guys work a lot on controlling the roll and catching the heel hook from the weak side. They primarily use weak side dig mechanics as well so in a sense they are confident in their ability to finish. But neither finish is more devastating, it's just about availability.
 
They both also favor different grips. Bernacki likes the reverse butterfly grip, and the DDS like the wrist to wrist grip. Neither like the standard grip that much.

Thank you all so much for the insight. Does anyone have pictures of these different grips for clarification purposes?
 
i still have to go through stephans earlier leglocks and kneebar dvds lol

maybe I can pick up the new stuff on black friday
 
Thank you all so much for the insight. Does anyone have pictures of these different grips for clarification purposes?
Yeah. I couldn't find a good reverse butterfly grip pic online though. Just think reverse figure four grip, but butterfly instead. The butterfly grip is my favorite of the bunch. There's also a few other esoteric grips. The watch grip and the steering wheel grip. I'll try and find good pics of those. The gable or butterfly can almost always get the job done.

gable grip (palm to palm)

58d4437f04ee8.jpeg


butterfly grip (wrist to wrist)

JoZtzag.jpg

polaris.jpg

rNI79H8.png


reverse figure four/RNC grip

IMG_7884.0.0.jpg
 
Fantastic thread, nice to see great technical discussion.
 
So who got the set before they yanked it? Any insight on when it will be available again?

Really looking to get this set soon, anyone want to sell?
 
Back
Top